Rights of way

plugp7

I was riding across a patch of grassy land the other day like I and may others do almost every day. A bit of land in an urban landscape, neither town nor country, you know the scene.
I was stopped by an young man with a clipboard who informed me that I was cycling on a path designated as a public footpath and that I could be “done” for doing this. Not one for missing an opportunity for a good argument, I entered into a heated discussion with this officious tw@ (as other people cycled past us) about the rights and wrongs of my actions.
Eventually I rode away agreeing to disagree with him. I’m not stupid and understand that if the track was indeed a public footpath I and hundreds of other cyclist are in the wrong.
My question is, what sanctions can be applied to people committing this heinous crime? Fines, being sued for trespass, confiscation of cycle?
Just a thought.

ride_whenever

nothing, they have to catch you...

stumpyjon

The only thing you can be liable for is trespass which is a civil offence. The seriousness of the trepass would depend on the amount of damage done (and as tyre tracks don't usually constitute much damage any damages award against you is going to be pretty small).

As ride_whenever says, they've got to catch you first. There have been very few if any prosecutions for trespass against cycists. I don't think the land owner has any right to forcibly eject you from their land, that would be assault which is a criminal offence :twisted: .

It's best to stay off footpaths so you don't damage the public image of cycling any further but I understand where you're coming from.

Other option is to feign ingorance, apologise and push or carry you bike. Anyone who tells you are still breaking the law doesn't then know the law (and nore does anyone else until a case comes up, it's one of those grey murky bits with differing interpretations).

Bikerbaboon

tresspass. i belive that the landowner or agent cna ask you to leave there land by the quickest route and sue you for damages done to the land by your actions. Riding on a footpath is a £30 fine i belive but on a lot of footpaths that are well out of the way its going to be a realy slow day for the coppers to get round to waiting on a muddy track for the one biker to come along for a £30 fine. next time tell them to call the police ( remember thats its not a 999 call as its not an emergancy) and let them know that reaction time for non emergancy calls is about 1 hour and that they can wait but you will be on your way.

plugp7

Very interesting
Don’t get me wrong here. I am not a persistent “law breaker” as regards this and agree totally with stumpyjon about image to the extent I am probably over cautious where I ride.
Just a though.

Thanks boys.

apoc_reg

Interesting stuff, I have a route home from work in which one tiny section is public footpath (rest is all byways) and wasnt sure where i stood.

I have been shouted at by a couple of dog walkers but as i always dismount when i see them i just thought they were being obnoxious!

gingerbloke

Got shouted at 2 weeks ago, "you're not allowed to cycle on this path" to which I replied "Yes I know It's silly isn't it?" and carried on.....

strodey

Pedal cyclists have a right to use bridleways, restricted byways and byways open to all traffic, but on bridleways they must give way to walkers and riders. Like horse riders, they have no right to use footpaths and if they do so they are committing a trespass against the owner of the land, unless use is by permission.

Just recite this to whoever asks then tell them you have permission (Just make it up that you have permission)

They will soon shut up and go back to bird spotting / train spotting / plane spotting / whatever the hell else they have too much time to do!

Splasher

Nothing shuts do-gooders up like telling them you own the land and therefore are not relying on any right of way. Follow this up by telling them to "keep to the right of way or you'll have to take legal action against them for tresspass".

Joking aside, I try never to ride on footpaths unless I do own the land.

BlackSpur

Splasher wrote:

Nothing shuts do-gooders up like telling them you own the land and therefore are not relying on any right of way. Follow this up by telling them to "keep to the right of way or you'll have to take legal action against them for tresspass".

I am definitely trying that the next time I get pestered!

grantway

Be straight tell them to get out of the way and off the path.
You want the Way I am the Way now Bugger off

Just a Joke LOL :shock:

mariner71

What should I have told the couple of dopey walkers at Dalby last week who used a section of the black run as a short-cut back to Dixons Hollow? The cheeky bloke told me to "watch it" as I nearly took out his wife when rounding a corner.

plugp7

It does pi55 you off though. The development of the man made MTB centres are OK but are not a patch on natural trails. I walk as well and it's a real bummer when you walk along footpaths and not see a sole for hours. I mean, we're not asking for the whole earth, just a little bit more.

dave_hill

mariner71 wrote:

What should I have told the couple of dopey walkers at Dalby last week who used a section of the black run as a short-cut back to Dixons Hollow? The cheeky bloke told me to "watch it" as I nearly took out his wife when rounding a corner.

You should have pointed out politely and calmly that they were on a bikes-only trail, that they were taking an unnecessary risk and out of concern for their safety you would report this to the first forest ranger that you came across. Then advise them to leave the trail as soon as was practically possible.

I've done this at Coed-y-Brenin - luckily the people I cam across were reasonably sensible and suitably mortified when I pointed out the the likelihood that that they might expect death by High-Roller at any minute...

Norco_Will93

Many of times I have had the dog owners hurl abuse at me or lack the control of their dogs, which is a real shame, if you have a dog you should be able to keep it under control :evil:

mariner71

dave_hill wrote:

mariner71 wrote:

What should I have told the couple of dopey walkers at Dalby last week who used a section of the black run as a short-cut back to Dixons Hollow? The cheeky bloke told me to "watch it" as I nearly took out his wife when rounding a corner.

You should have pointed out politely and calmly that they were on a bikes-only trail, that they were taking an unnecessary risk and out of concern for their safety you would report this to the first forest ranger that you came across. Then advise them to leave the trail as soon as was practically possible.

I've done this at Coed-y-Brenin - luckily the people I cam across were reasonably sensible and suitably mortified when I pointed out the the likelihood that that they might expect death by High-Roller at any minute...

but whats the fun in that? :-) I just shouted "get the f**k out the way" Naturally my double standards commands the polite approach when on a foot path!

dave_hill

I know what you mean and I know that you're only joking but I sometimes shudder at the arrogance (and ignorance) that a lot of MTBers show when it comes to rights of way and how we (and others) should be behaving.

I'm fairly sure that those of us who do know the rules and etiquette, and how to behave towards other trail users (and how other trail users should be behaving towards us) are in a significant minority and have to carry the can for everyone else.

I've lost count of the number of times when I would have loved to have let rip at walkers, equestrians and indeed other MTBers but I haven't because a) the point of my argument would probably be lost on them, b) it's usually counter-productive and c) the authorities aren't keen on physical violence.

You've just got to grit your teeth, keep smiling and push onwards. If you start shouting the odds or being a clever bastard, you just make yourself look like a tw@t and this image is then projected onto the rest of us. That makes me really angry and is probably the reason why I prefer my own company when I'm riding (or just one or two other companions at most) because I hate having to make excuses for other stupid people's bad behaviour.

As Bob Paisley used to say - if you want to be heard, speak quietly.

passout

If on a (narrow) footpath I dismount if i meet a ped., especially if they have dogs. I tend not to use footpaths though as bridleways are generally better to ride - in my neck of the woods anyway.

cee

hoorah for scotland where there is none of this foolishness to contend with (as long as everyone is courteous and sensible, shuts gates etc)

Zain

Ramblers are by far the worst offender/jobsworths. Always in pairs blocking the whole path and they never ever move.
I approached one from behind and rang my Bell ( yes a Bell, I know it's a bit camp but they come in handy!) - the old farts reply was 'how rude'.
To which I then replied (while ripping past him ) 'Oh I'm sorry, next time I'll be sure not to warn you'
Also had a similar experience as the OP, I just carried on riding and said 'Call the Police' :roll:

strodey

if they are walking toward you always aim for the side the womenis on, sounds harsh but if they dont move the bloke tends to warn her then move too, aim for the bloke you'll get nowhere!
This is tried and tested, 8 / 10 couples it works on, i actully counted works when approaching from behind too!!!!

Always say thankyou then the next rider will get an easier time too!

only other tried and tested theory, the faster your going the quicker and more likely they are too move, must admit where i ride i never get a problem!

Papa Smurf

Dont know if anyones mentioned it but I would think you can get done pretty heavily if you hit someone, that being of course, they catch you. That's the trouble with footpaths. Dont get me wrong I'm not stupid and dont race down footpaths because I know the risks but if I do happen to be on one, and it's downhill.. I'm not gonna forcibly slow myself
down.. I'm just gonna roll.
So what if I was to hit someone?

woodywmb

Well said Cee. Come to Scotland where you can access any path, anywhere (almost) . Plus the riding's the best there is. That's why Scotland hosts the national and international MTB championships. We'd love to see you!

fred1star

stumpyjon wrote:

Other option is to feign ingorance, apologise and push or carry you bike. Anyone who tells you are still breaking the law doesn't then know the law (and nore does anyone else until a case comes up, it's one of those grey murky bits with differing interpretations).

As an ex public rights of way officer... this is not entirely correct. The public have a right to use a public footpath with what are termed as "usual accompliments". A dog, a pram might be classed as a usual accompliment, not a bike. And therefore one would not expect to see a member of the public walking down a footpath in possession of a bike. So technically your not even allowed to walk a bike down a footpath….

Why am I an Ex rights of way officer? Got sacked for mtbing on a footpath.....

dave_hill

fred1star wrote:

Why am I an Ex rights of way officer? Got sacked for mtbing on a footpath.....

Shouldn't laugh at you getting sacked mate, but THAT is quality. Irony cannot do it justice!!!

doog442

does anyone know the score on forestry commission land? My commute takes me on 3 miles of wide fire tracks / paths that are even used for the sunseeker car rallye down here in deepest dorset....

Ive had 4 months of grief with dog walkers who clearly hate cyclists, so much so a posse of retired dog walkers I regulary encounter, have taken direct action to stop me cycling by them, stringing themselves out refusing to move etc ..its all getting a bit stupid.

Im careful,slow down..use my bell, take care to avoid their out of control /half blind old labradors but its wearing a bit thin, indeed one old dear advanced on me with walking stick raised telling me to 'slow down..slow down' (I was doing about 4mph)

mariner71

OMG, that is ridiculous. get some roman empire style chariot blades on your bike wheels and ride on through. I hate small minded people, and they all happen to be retired biddies with nothing better to do. You could let them hit you with the walking stick and throw the book at them....or you could just ignor them, dont let their insignificant and pathetic protests effect you and continue on your way as if they dont exist. Up to you man, I prefer to tell them what i think!