Knee Pain

chronyx

Have no idea what section to post this in...I commute on the road on a MTB so any of them will do! A schizophrenic post :? :twisted:

I have been getting pain in my right knee, not really that painful but noticeable.

It looks as though my knee has some side to side movement as I reach the top part of the stroke. Is this normal? I have 175mm cranks on there and have only just noticed this.

Have tried altering my spinning technique as much as possible with SPD's, trying to really follow the motion of the pedals rather than just press up and down.

Cheers for any help guys!

downfader

Hows your hydration? I find if I dont drink enough fluids my knees play up. Also if the saddle is too high up or too far back.

I'm not an expert though. :oops:

chronyx

Hydration is fine as far as I can tell - dropped the saddle a bit and that helped but the fore/aft adjustment is a good point.

Oh how do you guys tell if it is perfectly central above the cross bar? I just use line of sight but that's not really precise!

myqul

Float - at i understand it spd's dont have much if any ( i've never used spd's so i dont really know that much about em). Ive just ordered some speedplay frogs which have a non centering float to about 20 odd degrees. A lot of people on other forums i frequent say they are really good for knee pain.

If it continues think about shorter canks - they promote spinning and are less harsh on the knee. You can get crank shorteners so you can play about with length

chronyx

There's a certain amount of free play before it unclips, is that what you mean?

I was wondering about shorter cranks - a shame as I used a formula which indicated 175mm exactly was right for me and I got them for a very good price!

myqul

chronyx wrote:

There's a certain amount of free play before it unclips, is that what you mean?!

Yea - sounds as if you have a little float. Centering float can cause problems too though. Even though there is free play the spring tension in the pedal will try to return the cleat to the pedals' centre. The problem is that it might not be your knee's centre. With non-centreing float your feet with just go to there natrual positon on the pedal and are free to move around up until the maximum degree of float for that pedal

I have crank shorteners on my 170mm cranks for a hip problem i have. They can shorten the cranks by 30mm,60mm or 90mm. Im currently still experimenting with the right length

victor ludorum

The float problem mentioned above is a possibility. It could be that you have enough float (it wasn't a problem when I used spds) but that your cleats aren't positioned properly on the sole of the shoe. Cleats can drift a little after they've been installed, with the incremental change not being noticed until it causes you a problem.

Saddle height and position is another possibility. A certain amount of lateral movement in your knee during upstroke or downstroke isn't unusual, but too much is going to lead to twisting. You're more likely to be twisting your knee at the apex of the upstroke if your saddle is too low.

Is your drive-train in good condition? Is the chain running smoothly? The BB? Are the cranks balanced? Are you getting chain suck/slap at all? If your drive-train isn't operating smoothly, or the mechanics are out of whack, that could be affecting your pedalling motion and causing you discomfort.

Are you pedalling in an appropriate gear for what you're doing? It may be an insult to your manhood, but it might be better to reduce the power you're laying down for increased cadence to see what difference it makes.

Finally, dumb questions. Have you had any injuries to your knees before? Have you had injuries to any other bodyparts which might be affecting how you carry yourself, leading you to favour one side for example and putting more stress on the joints than usual? Have you changed your commuting route recently, so that it includes more hills, or more start-stop junctions? Is your bike really heavy?

andrewc3142

As above, but I would also get yourself to a good sports physio, ideally one with experience with cycling injuries. Could be that just one session for diagnosis and setting you up with exercises is all you need.

chronyx

Thanks guys - bike and drivetrain are in perfect mechanical condition! No pre-existing injuries as far as I know. Route the same!

Although am curious what the cranks being balanced means?

I try to stick to a fairly high cadence rather than grinding away but I'll try an easier gear and spinning more!

Saddle is maybe a little too high if anything although I have brought it down slightly!

biondino

It's almost certainly your cleats causing the pain - is it in one side of your knee and not the other? If so, have a look at the recent bikeradar article on knee pain, it's very helpful.

snooks

When you first put you cleats on, did you fiddle with their position to get them just right for you?....when I first went clipless it took a while to get it perfectly comfortable on both knees getting the cleats right on each shoe.

Another thought is that the cleat on the offending knee has taken a knock has it so it's ever-so-slightly mis-aligned it's self

Just a thought...and all

myqul

biondino wrote:

It's almost certainly your cleats causing the pain - is it in one side of your knee and not the other? If so, have a look at the recent bikeradar article on knee pain, it's very helpful.

Do you think you could do a link to this article. Did a search and couldnt find it

victor ludorum

chronyx wrote:

Although am curious what the cranks being balanced means?

If the bearings supporting the rotation of your cranks go then it can cause the cranks to turn unevenly, or even go out of line.

Sometimes (rarely) the bearings break. Sometimes they desperately need re-lubing, especially if you've ever cleaned your MTB with a pressure hose (I ride past a garage at the bottom of my road where of a Sunday evening, MTB cleaning is a popular pastime...

I've seen a set of cranks so badly out of line that they were actually scraping the chain-stays, but still being ridden on apparently obliviously.

Its unusual, and I'm not suggesting that it would be as bad as the example above, but if they were out of line that could be causing your problem.

biondino

myqul wrote:

biondino wrote:

It's almost certainly your cleats causing the pain - is it in one side of your knee and not the other? If so, have a look at the recent bikeradar article on knee pain, it's very helpful.

Do you think you could do a link to this article. Did a search and couldnt find it

here you go:

http://www.bikeradar.com/fitness/articl ... ance-17010

One thing also to mention about cleats - it's very unlikely that both cleats will be ideally position in exactly the same way. My left foot is flatter than my right, for example, and also the cleat is a couple of mms further back (longer toes maybe?). It really is a case of trial and error, and only after you've done a good long ride with 100% comfort and 0% knee pain will you know you've found the right combo.

squired

One other thing to consider is the muscles themselves. If you don't stretch adequately it can have knock on effects, which cause knee pain. The same can be said about not doing core exercises. I've found that all my long term knee issues were cured by a combination of stretching and core strengthening. Having had a rest from both recently my pain has magically returned...

ride_whenever

Yup wot he said ^^^

the knee is a bit of a weak point in the power transfer chain, lots of physiological weaknesses will manifest themselves as knee pain. Best bet is to visit a decent cycling sports physio, possibly take your bike and a turbo so they can observe your techinque.

st199ml

Last two comments seem very close to the nub of the problem.

Early this year I had a lay off the bike due to a stinking cold. Bottom line I'd lost fitness and muscle strength.

Thinking back I went back to lots of volume, but did try low intensity spinning, trying to 'ease myself back in'. My knee began to hurt like hell.

Several months of physio and exercise the root cause was knee cap misalignment due to tight IT band and weak VMO muscle. Good diagnostic for this, do you get pain off the bike when the knee is flexed for a long period (eg sitting at a desk)? And does it hurt walking down stairs?