How on earth... ?

murpheus_uk

Hi guys, first post (although I used to post on the old C+ forums)

Was riding home last night from Kilmarnock to Galston in Ayrshire at about 11:00 (on the late shift) which involves about 3 miles of unlit A road. I wasn't exactly lit up like a christmas tree but I reckoned I was bright enough for the road conditions.

I was maybe 150 yards away from street lights at the far end of the unlit section, a car was coming the other way, his headlights were on full beam and completely dazzled me, I put my hand up to shield my eyes from the glare, heard the sound of an engine revving and an accelerating car behind me just to the right.

Then BANG! Felt the impact as I was turned into a ragdoll, everything turned red, then black for an indeterminate amount of time.

The next thing I vaguely remember is somehow, with my head buzzing and no clue who I am, where I am or what is going on, trying to remount my bike which lacked for a rear wheel :P and had shed its bits all over the road, after that it all went dark again until I was in the ambulance.

By the time I was in hospital I had become fully compus mentus again, ended up with no fractures at all, a shredded elbow, road rash down my entire right-hand side and a slightly gashed head.

The police reckon the guy was doing about 50 when he hit me.
How the hell was I able to walk away from that with only minor superficial injuries?

More importantly, do you think I'll be able to claim a new bike off the insurance?

Cheers
Ed

woodford2barbican

Christ. Glad you are OK. Did the guy stop?

Edit: Get down the newsagents and buy a lottery ticket!

Greg T

murpheus_uk wrote:

More importantly, do you think I'll be able to claim a new bike off the insurance?

Cheers
Ed

Did the guy who hit you stop?

I'd suggest that by the time you finish with him you'll be able to buy a new bike and a house to put it in.

murpheus_uk

Cheers guys,

I think they stopped, but it was all a bit hazy so I can't say for certain what happened.

I think I vaguely remember the police mentioning something about dents and scratches on the bodywork, plus how else would they know how fast the guy was going?

ChrisLS

...this is a job for legal people. Contact the CTC and/or Russell, Jones and Walker

http://www.rjw.co.uk/

...glad you are okay.

Bikerbaboon

if you blacked out when you got hit you would have been floppy. as long as you remain loose you have a reduced chance of breaking anything.

i think the main thing is that you are ok. the bike and insurance claim can wait. get your self better then worrie about it.

now the main importance for the forum is............................ did you have a helmet on and did that save your life.

/steps back and waits for the argument to start again.



good to hear you ok though.

chuckcork

Its quite possible the driver behind was also dazzled by the lights of the oncoming vehicle, will probably be what is claimed anyway. The lights of a car on full beam will way outshine anything a cyclist can put out, even a bright bike light can be dazzling in the dark if seen straight on.

Ironically I had a guy last winter call out to me to ask whether I had enough lights on? Had on the front two LED's, a main beam running off a 9V battery plus a headtorch. For the rear I had two led's and two led's on the helmet with refelctive strips. Lit up like a christmas tree, and your experience is exactly why I chose to be so.

Glad to hear your mostly OK though.

cee

oof johnny sir!

sounds like you totally got away with that one (more or less)!

As above....lawyers are best equipped to help.

Interesting to find out what happened (or the various version of it!) as and when you find out the details...

Get well soon! Sort the bike out later.

Mr_Cellophane

If you were dazzeled by the oncoming car, no wonder the one behind didn't see you.
You are very lucky, someone where I work was hit from behind at that sort of speed and was off for months.

victor ludorum

Jings! Sound like you had a narrow one there...

I'm neither a lawyer nor a policeman, but I don't see how being dazzled by the full beams of an oncoming car would absolve the driver who hit you of responsibility. You didn't parachute into the road in front of the driver under cover of dazzling lights, you were legitimate traffic on the road in front of him/her.

Since it was impossible for the driver to see clearly, they should have been more careful rather than just ploughing on at 50mph.

Accidents happen, and people make mistakes so no-one should demand anyone else's head for it, but I would have though that they would be liable for your bike if nothing else - best employ a solicitor.

Just to be on the safe side, you were legally lit and reflectored weren't you? Don't want contributory negligence being aimed at you by some weasel insurance company.

Surf-Matt

Blimey! Are you sure you are okay?! Have you been fully checked out by the docs?

Sounds like a very very lucky escape to me.

Hopefully you can get a bit of money back for a new bike but I'd be thanking my lucky stars I was still alive!

downfader

Seems to me the driver that hit you was going too fast and any claim about being dazzled is null and void if so. :?

With lights let me tell you all - I spent years filling vending machines in the hospital A&E departments waiting room. I had plenty of time to hear drivers make excuses for their own stupidity and I personally choose to do as much as I can to be seen - so they have no option.

I wear flourescents (the yellow army I call it) on a tabbard, and a wrap on my right leg. I have the regulatory reflectors, and if its raining, very cloudy or simply night I have front and back lamps. I do intend to replace the lamps later for more powerful ones.

Beeblebrox

Only thing I would add is that if it was an A-road then the driver wouldn't have been speeding (unless there's a speed limit, obviously).

Sounds like a lucky escape, though. Good thing too.

downfader

Beeblebrox wrote:

Only thing I would add is that if it was an A-road then the driver wouldn't have been speeding (unless there's a speed limit, obviously).

Sounds like a lucky escape, though. Good thing too.

I think two of the ones I have ridden around here were 40mph... I thought all A roads were signposted with speedlimits or had the black slash on white circle? :? Whats the speed if they're not then, 70?

Beeblebrox

downfader wrote:

Beeblebrox wrote:

Only thing I would add is that if it was an A-road then the driver wouldn't have been speeding (unless there's a speed limit, obviously).

Sounds like a lucky escape, though. Good thing too.

I think two of the ones I have ridden around here were 40mph... I thought all A roads were signposted with speedlimits or had the black slash on white circle? :? Whats the speed if they're not then, 70?

Well national limits is 60mph, so unless there's a specific speed limit then the estimate of 50mph is one law not broken.

downfader

Beeblebrox wrote:

downfader wrote:

Beeblebrox wrote:

Only thing I would add is that if it was an A-road then the driver wouldn't have been speeding (unless there's a speed limit, obviously).

Sounds like a lucky escape, though. Good thing too.

I think two of the ones I have ridden around here were 40mph... I thought all A roads were signposted with speedlimits or had the black slash on white circle? :? Whats the speed if they're not then, 70?

Well national limits is 60mph, so unless there's a specific speed limit then the estimate of 50mph is one law not broken.

ahh right.

fossyant

That was lucky - glad you are still here... take it easy !

murpheus_uk

Cheers again

I feel much stiffer and sorer today, but have come to realise just how lucky I was.
The speed limit at that part is NSL but I was seconds away from an imminent 30 zone.

Now that I know a little more about the circumstances surrounding the incident, I also realise that the glare from Mr High Beam coming the other way will almost certainly have drowned out my Cateye LED. It seems to me as more and more memories come back that the driver who hit me held back until just as they were out of the main glare of Mr High Beam f***wit then they immediately sprung forward with acceleration.

Both the driver and the passenger of the car that hit me told the police that my bike light was "dim", which is why the driver wasn't charged. My thoughts are that if they could see that it was dim then they effectively say that they saw me.

As I say I wasn't lit up like a christmas tree but lots of other people overtook me on that stretch successfully.

Re: legality of lighting and reflectors, I had both front and back reflectors, had recently changed the batteries on both my front and rear LED and they definitely weren't "dim". Only part of my equipment that may cause problems is that I had SPDs so didn't have the yellow pedal reflectors. The heels of my shoes are retroreflective though.

Opening a can of worms, no, I wasn't wearing a helmet and only suffered a mild concussion and a small head wound. I have no idea how I came down as I remember nothing after the initial impact so couldn't say whether it would have helped or worsened the blow to my head. Several people in the hospital asked "were you wearing a helmet?" as though it would magically have stopped me getting ploughed into from behind :?

I have come to reflect just how lucky I am about this crash.

I'm not looking to get a substantial sum of money, I hate the whole concept of ambulance chasers, but just want enough to get a new bike and to pay for the dental work I now require after breaking several teeth (including my front teeth ) during the crash.

The insurance companies are happy (and rich) enough to pay out for dents to car bodywork and whiplash claims in 10mph car park contretemps, I don't see why they should be unwilling to give a relatively small sum out when it could so easily have been MUCH MUCH worse for their client.

I'm also going to be phoning Stagecoach tomorrow as I was passed by a bus shortly before the crash, to see if the driver recalls seeing me. (he must have done as he didnt hit me! )

P.S. The police never found my rear wheel. The car must have hit it with some force! Almost tempted to go back to the scene to see if I can find it myself.
Thanks again for all your kind words
Ed

victor ludorum

glad to hear you're alright.

and congratulations for being the only person on here who's ever spelled
contretemps, correctly...

cjcp

murpheus_uk wrote:

Cheers again

I feel much stiffer and sorer today, but have come to realise just how lucky I was.
The speed limit at that part is NSL but I was seconds away from an imminent 30 zone.

Now that I know a little more about the circumstances surrounding the incident, I also realise that the glare from Mr High Beam coming the other way will almost certainly have drowned out my Cateye LED. It seems to me as more and more memories come back that the driver who hit me held back until just as they were out of the main glare of Mr High Beam f***wit then they immediately sprung forward with acceleration.

Both the driver and the passenger of the car that hit me told the police that my bike light was "dim", which is why the driver wasn't charged. My thoughts are that if they could see that it was dim then they effectively say that they saw me.

Ed - glad you're in good shape (Chicks dig scars:) )

If the Police believe the driver was doing about 50 on impact, and he was 150 yards away from a 30 zone, why on earth was the driver accelerating if he didn't see you? ("F**k it", the driver thinks, "it's late, no traffic, I'll speed through through the 30 zone"). Or was he just accelerating to get past you, in which case, as you say, he must have seen you and possibly poorly judged the distance between you and him when he began overtaking?

Have you contacted the CTC and/or a solicitor yet and written down everything as it comes back to you so that you have as contemporaneous a note of the incident as possible?

Jon G

Beeblebrox wrote:

Well national limits is 60mph, so unless there's a specific speed limit then the estimate of 50mph is one law not broken.

Regardless of the speed limit applicable, driving at 50mph when you cannot see where you are going is illegal.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Immediate (sceptical) thought: If you rear wheel was available for inspection, could it not have given away the speed of the impact when the car hit your bike? Maybe they were speeding...

If so, maybe they (the people in the car that hit you) took the wheel with them?

Regardless, at least you are alive and in very good condition, considering what could have happened!

Mike Healey

Get a lawyer
Get a lawyer
Get a lawyer
Thro' CTC/British Cycling
Thro' CTC/British Cycling
Thro' CTC/British Cycling
Thro' CTC/British Cycling

Did I mention? Get a lawyer thro' CTC/British Cycling

jedster

Christ alive. Glad you made it - that's a complete shocker.

PLease do pursue this one.. get the lawyers involved.

AFAIK, being rear-ended is one of the least likely accidents for cyclists (compared to left hooks, SMIDSY pull-outs etc). This suggests to me that the driving was, if we're being extremely charitable, deeply incompetent. The insurance should pay you for GOOD dentistry and the rest.

Good luck

J

chuckcork

"your lights were dim" is a piss poor excuse for running into someone.

ANY bike light is going to be dim compared to the headlights of a car at full beam seen straight on.

Sounds like the police just couldn't be arsed with the paperwork to investigate properly, or to chase the driver who was driving with the h'beamers on. Better things to do.

Of course when someone gets the killed the paperwork goes all out of proportion, but comments I've read too many times seems like that isn't a crime worth investigating at all either.

Just makes me wonder, in the modern day and age, where the old concept of "taking your victims as you find them" is? Seems any excuse will do to throw off responsibility.

batch78

RE: Your teeth, I lost two in similar circumstances, they are very expensive to sort out properly (itro £1000 per tooth), do get full compensation as work needs to be done at extra cost before any replacements. I got a plate (£550) as a temporary measure! Hope you make a full and speedy recovery.

Peasoup

Glad you ok.

for info speed limits on A roads can be up to 70mph (dual carriageway), and 60mph on single carriageway.

jon G - Regarding legality of driving at 50mph in poor visibility (restricted vision or otherwsie), i don't think this is illegal as such, but it is certainly ill-advised.

any vehicle should be driven at a speed appropriate for the prevailing conditions

ride_whenever

wouldn't a charge of driving without due care and attn be appropriate?