Undertaking cars, illegal

georgee

I had an argument the other night with a class A RLJ tool which ended with him him whittering on and threatening me with violence, but that's just his problem.

Anywho, one of the things he said to me as to justify his stupidity was that I was just as bad for undertaking cars, made me think, what is the law on bikes going faster then cars and effectively undertaking as they grind though the traffic?

linsen

Don't know what side of the law it is on but it's a pretty dangerous pastime - in stationary traffic I almsot always overtake rather than undertake - I am much more visible that way (and it makes me feel smug cycling past all the drivers' windows!!) My theory is, the more like a proper road user I act (eg not skipping red lights, undertaking etc) then the more respect I can command from other road users (ie the drivers who could do me lots of damage!)

victor ludorum

It is not illegal to overtake on the left, provided the queue of traffic in the lane to your right is standing still or slow moving.

I am not aware of any provision in law or the highway code which says that overtaking traffic on the left in the same lane as you is illegal (but then, I am not a lawyer). Doing it in such a way that you cause an obstruction to the free flow of traffic, or a risk to yourself or others is obviously wrong, but that's just commonsense.

RLJing, however, is definitely against the law.

Clever Pun

also on the inside you have cars all over the shop some tucked in all selfish like and some out near the middle of the road.... going down the middle of the road is fairly consistent and as linsen says you're more visible

getting right hooked is much less likely than a solid lefty

victor ludorum

linsen wrote:

Don't know what side of the law it is on but it's a pretty dangerous pastime - in stationary traffic I almsot always overtake rather than undertake - I am much more visible that way (and it makes me feel smug cycling past all the drivers' windows!!) My theory is, the more like a proper road user I act (eg not skipping red lights, undertaking etc) then the more respect I can command from other road users (ie the drivers who could do me lots of damage!)

I largely agree with Linsen. Of course, depending on the arrangement of the road, this might see you overtaking the next lane outside on the left, or running out into the oncoming lane, both of which have their own hazards.

whome

As I understand it (but I am not a lawyer), undertaking is not illegal - however it could be used to prosecute you for driving/cycling with due care. - various arguments on how likely the latter is.

However filtering is an accepted activity for cyclists and motorcyclists and is not illegal in itself. Obviously it depends on the exact circumstances.

As others point out, be careful passing someone ont he left they may not expect it. Large vehicles may not see you.

whome

Ah I type too slowly obviously. I agree with Victor.

George or Dick

Passing on the left is legal. However, if the traffic is stationary then watch out for pedestrians crossing the road and give way to them. Also watch out for traffic coming from the other way and turning right. If the traffic is moving at all be expecting someone to turn left across your path. Assume that no one can see you and no one expects you to be there.

victor ludorum

George or Dick wrote:

Passing on the left is legal. However, if the traffic is stationary then watch out for pedestrians crossing the road and give way to them. Also watch out for traffic coming from the other way and turning right. If the traffic is moving at all be expecting someone to turn left across your path. Assume that no one can see you and no one expects you to be there.

+1

Of course, bike lanes on roads tend to take one up the left hand side anyway, so there is a precedent for passing on this side, but its generally a good idea to ride as if no-one expects you to be there no matter where you are riding...

Bassjunkieuk

I generally use whichever side has the most space :-)

I tend to find there is more room on the right but I always try and remain on my side of the road. There have been a few times where I have gone round a traffic island, but then I've seen motorbikes doing this and only do it when the road is clear in the opposite direction. If I see a large lorry coming the opposite way I'll just tuck into the traffic and hang back until I can proceed.

I'm quite surprised that the RLJ had a go at you, a bit rich coming from someone breaking the law so flagrantly!

whome

gone round a traffic island

If it has a keep left sign (blue arrow) on it, then AIUI you are breaking the law to go the wrong side.

whome

Being on the wrong side of the road (where there is not a keep left sign) is perfectly legal though. You have to be aware of other traffic obviously, but you may be safer having more room and more visibility than keeping in tight to the traffic. Obviously you need to be able to get out of the way of any traffic coming towards you, and very careful of any side turnings.

andrewc3142

I reckon filtering up the inside of slow-moving or stationary traffic is one of the most dangerous places to be in town. Much better to stay on the outside where you can see more, are more visible and have far more options.

karl j

i didn't think it was illegal (though, again, i'm no solicitor) but it's not particularly clever. So why do 'cycle lanes' run along the inside you might ask, and that would be a damn good question to which i, and i guess many others, have no good answer. But if you feel you must or want to then a few things to look out for would be...

car doors opening
getting left hooked (with no prior indication)
pedestrians crossing from between cars
parked cars
taxi's stopping to pick up / set down passengers
buses stopping to pick up / set down passengers
lorries & buses in general (for fairly obvious reasons)
glass, tree debris, sunken drain covers, broken exhaust pipes, tesco trolleys etc

Coriander

I was knocked off my bike by a police car last summer when I was riding down the inside of a line of stationary or very slow moving traffic (I can't remember many aspects of the 'incident') and the car decided to turn off out of the jam.

My understanding is that I shouldn't have been on the inside as I was undertaking. Although nobody seems to be able to quote the precise regulation outlawing it.

It is confusing, because of course when we're taught to cycle as kids you're always told to stay on the inside of the traffic stream.

As I said, I still don't know what is right and wrong from a legal aspect, but I tend to go down the outside now - as others have said, you're more visible and drivers expect traffic from that side, but not from the inside.

George or Dick

Well, if it had been the policeman cycling and you in the car turning, that would also have been your fault.

whome

So why do 'cycle lanes' run along the inside you might ask

I guess, having a bike lane should make it far more likely that drivers are expecting a cycle there. Although pure numbers of cyclists are more likely to have an effect than anything else and obviously some cycle lanes are very substandard and passing another vehicle is always an element of risk - good list of things to watch out for BTW.

When I am driving I normally find it is cyclists down the inside and motorcyclists down the outside (or the middle for 2 lane dual carriageway).

Surf-Matt

I feel terrible admitting this but I car doored a cyclist when getting out of the back of a car (left hand side) n Bristol a while back - very minor but it was quite a bang.

Just didn't expect anyone to whizz past on the left hand side - I think it's pretty dangerous.

Any time I get out of the right hand side I ALWAYS check for traffic.

aclucas

I have asked severl policemen/women at various times, including when I was at school, and have always been told that it is legal to pass on the left.

However, I agree with the posters before and tend to pass on the safest side according to my judgement, which is most often the right.

I was doing this at speed the other day (a known section of road with lots of space and a one at a time section ahead which slows the wider members of the road using community down to a snails pace). A bus was thinking about turning across my path through the queue and I got the first real go of my air zound horn. I've very rarely seen anyone's jaw actually do the dropping thing before. Priceless.

downfader

I tend to ride through traffic waving both arms around like a loon shouting "get out of the way!!"

Nah seriously, my own preference is to stick mostly left (unless pinchpoints are coming up), if traffic stops its no bother for me to just sit there waiting and catch my breath.

JoeSoap76

I'd only ever go up the LHS of stationary traffic... and even then it's a careful judgement call based on a number of factors.

1) Am I going to get to the front of the queue before the traffic starts to move again? If I'm not then going up the right would leave me stuck in the middle of the road with, usually, faster moving traffic now undertaking me. Not a good position to be in.

2) A lot of the ASLs around Glasgow have a mini bike-lane for maybe six feet or so leading up to them. This is (almost) always on the LHS. If I want to use it then I need to be going up the LHS of the traffic.

3) What sort of traffic is this? I'd never, ever go up the LHS of a stationary bus or lorry. That's just crazy.

4) When the lights up ahead change to green, what is the traffic going to do? Undertake cars waiting to filter left? Madness. Overtake cars when I'm about to turn left across them? Madness.

As far as I know, if the traffic is stationary passing on either side is legal. That doesn't mean you should always go up the LHS and it doesn't mean you should always go up the RHS.

Just my t'pence worth.

linsen

Now I will have to change my nae on here for being so stupid, and I did initially reply to this post so have tried to sound intelligent, but what is an RLJ? for those of us who can ride a bike but don't know any jargon, how do I find out what all these little codes mean?! :?

redvee

Done the left hand undertake yesterday at a roundabout as the car in front was positioned in such a way as it looked to me he was going SA or R, when I got to the door pillar he remembered there are these strange orange lights on cars and decided to use his left hand one as he was pulling off. Of course he had to stop or would have got an Xlite bar bung in his door.

passout

Same happened to me :roll: but I was in the cycle lane at the time. No police involved as I wasn't really hurt and I felt sorry for the driver - she reminded me of my long deceased Gran!

victor ludorum

linsen wrote:

Now I will have to change my nae on here for being so stupid, and I did initially reply to this post so have tried to sound intelligent, but what is an RLJ? for those of us who can ride a bike but don't know any jargon, how do I find out what all these little codes mean?! :?

Don't worry, it seems to be a recent addition. I'd never come across it before either.

RLJ = Red Light Jumper - ( Noun)a cyclist who does not obey traffic signals, Syn: Numpty.

biondino

On the outside you're more likely to be hit by an oncoming vehicle or knocked into the oncoming traffic and therefore more likely to have a bad accident. I do it when appropriate but am damn careful about it. On the left you have all the hazards outlined above but by and large you won't be going very quickly if undertaking cars, and in this I disagree with Coriander - cars *expect* (as far as they think of cyclists at all) cyclists to be hugging the left.

Last night a colleague of mine was cycling on the outside down Great Marlborough Street and a bloke stepped out from stationary traffic and she couldn't avoid him, and was flung onto the road in the middle of the right lane. had there been traffic there she'd have been in a lot of trouble.

graeme_s-2

I pick which side to filter on depending on the conditions, but it's almost always to the right. As far as getting stuck on the right with faster traffic under taking you goes, it's very easy to avoid.

Keep your eyes open, as soon as you see traffic starting to move, look for a gap between two cars, make eye contact with the driver, indicate and move into it. I normally find I can time it so I pass the last stationary car just as the car in front is moving off, and I can pull in front of that. It's easier if you keep your speed up, but it's all about making eye contact (over your shoulder) and signaling your intentions. I've never ended up stuck to the right of moving traffic.

andrewgturnbull

Hi there.

Personally it's overtaking every time for me. I've hit a couple of car doors in the past, so I won't undertake again!

You can still get in plenty of trouble overtaking though... Once I was overtaking down the centre line past slow-moving Glasgow traffic. There was no traffic coming the other way, and a car emerged from a petrol station on the right hand side of the road and tryed to nudge it's way into the cars I was overtaking.

At this point I was going a little too fast (my bad) to stop in time.. so I pulled out to go round behind this car which was by now blocking the centre of the road. Unfortunately the driver saw me coming and picked this moment to reverse back into the petrol station...

I ended up turning sharp right into the petrol station, still going far too fast, nipped in between pumps 1 and 3, then exited via the entrance back onto the main road...

Not recommended.

Cheers, Andy

graeme_s-2

andrewgturnbull wrote:

I ended up turning sharp right into the petrol station, still going far too fast, nipped in between pumps 1 and 3, then exited via the entrance back onto the main road...

Now there's a good reason to have a helmet cam! Did you get a round of applause from any passers by?

Coriander

biondino wrote:

I disagree with Coriander - cars *expect* (as far as they think of cyclists at all) cyclists to be hugging the left.

You're right - that is actually the nub of the matter.

skavanagh.bikeradar

I'll only undertake stationary traffic on the left, I get in the 'driving' line if it's slow moving enough that I can keep up, or if I'm going faster than the traffic I go on the outside, but only on open roads never in town. I'm a bit cautious as everyone else is shooting about all over the place weaving in and out, jumping onto the pavement and undertaking moving traffic sometimes at speed. I've not seen an accident yet, but I'm not sure how!