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Trek 7.6FX vs Scott Speedster S30 FB 20 vs???

the watcherthe watcher Posts: 18
edited July 2009 in Commuting chat
Hello everyone.

I;ve been cycling for a few years, mainly on the roads of London and occasionally on canal path type trails. I am considering an upgrade from my Claud-Butler urban 400, and am stuck choosing. I want to get a hybrid model.

The 2008 Trek 7.6FX is £700 in the UK = $1400.
Incidentally, I am somewhat annoyed that the Trek 7.6FX is $1400 in UK and $1100 in USA.

The 2008 Scott Speedster S30 FB 2008 is £750.

The 2008 Specialized Globe Pro 2008 is also £750.
I like this one, however for some reason, the smallest frame size is 52cm, approx 20inches, which is 2inches higher than what I think I need.

Dawes Discovery 601 2008 is also in the same price range

So I suppose my budget is up to £750 :p . I am getting a 0% finance offer over 10months, and I have 2 jobs, so I should be secure paying for it eventually.

Whichever bike I purchase, I plan on asking the bike shop to modify the bike with a stem extender so that I can sit completely upright (lower back problems).

So i would really appreciate it if someone could comment on the above choices or any other similar models. I am only 5"6.5' so I really need a 17-18 inch frame for a hybrid bike.

One question I do have is what is the difference between Shimano 105 vs Shimano Deore XT vs Shimano Ultegra? As in which is the better? I've been googling away but am still confused.

In answer to my own question, here is one quote which people could comment on:
I know most people will say that there's really no difference between 105(Deore LX) to Ultegra(XT), to Dura Ace(XTR), I would have to disagree. With each step up the shifting becomes much crisper, smoother, and seems to hold a tune for much longer.,

So at least now I see the difference sort of, but not which is the best

The Specialized globe pro comes with Shimano XT whilst the others have Shimano 105

Thanks


edit, I now see that XT is probably the best one in terms of value and performance with ultegra being more for people with too much money. Unfortunately, the Globe pro does not come in my size, and all my other choices are shimano 105. The models which I have found from that same dealer which are shimano xt all come with hydrolic brake systems, whilst i want normal v brakes. Anyone got any recommendations for a hybrid bike with Shimano XT gear system?

I found this link useful to explain the shimano gearing systems:
http://www.epinions.com/content_957259908

More searching...there are no Shimano XT geared bikes I can find which come with a frame in my size. I am thinking I will have to go with the Trek 7.6FX and once the 105 wears down, i might look into upgrading the gears. The weight is kind of important still since I do carry about a 5kg+ motorbike chain for my bike all the time (wound around the front rail connecting the handlebars to the seat stem.

Posts

  • johnno_ukjohnno_uk Posts: 30
    There are a couple of others to look out for : There is the Genesis Day 02/03 series - basically a real road bike with flat bar. Also the specilized Sirrus series, Kona PhD etc..
    I have 7.6Fx and am happy with it : very comfortable. The components are OK but i think its the frame that is really strong point : i regularly do 20-30 mile run-outs and its great . Carbon forks and seat stays do absorb a lot of the road buzz . Also it has eyelets for mudguards front and back which for winter is essential - many of the urban/hybrid bikes don't have that. I'll probably upgrade a few of the bits over time . 105 is plenty adequate , not as crisp as the ultegra on my road bike but then on a 7.6fx you're probably looking more to enjoy the ride as opposed to have the slickest of gear changes. The other thing with the 7.6 is that plenty of room to put on some chunkier tyres for the winter - the conti race tyres aren't too grippy in the wet, and i've already come a cropper once.
  • judokevjudokev Posts: 49
    Hi there,

    Do a search on road beginners for my thread on flat bar road bikes, got some good advice and one fella said he had back problems plus quite a few bikes suggested with one guy having the scott you mentioned

    Good luck

    Judo kev
  • beegeebeegee Posts: 160
    You've done it now. I was in blissful ignorance of the pecking order of Shimano stuff. Now I've found out I've got the very lowest grade of shimano stuff on mine. I'll never be content again. :(
  • marcbamarcba Posts: 84
    I am not a big fan of multi material frames (metal with carbon parts) so I limitated my last purchase to a FX 7.5 (just one month ago).
    Tiagra rear shifter works very well (on my different bikes, I have very different components from Shim 105 to older version of Campa Record; I may find differences in smoothness, but not really in quality of changing gear). So to say that it is not needed to buy high level (and high price) shifters and deraillers to get far enough shifting quality.

    I don't know about the 7.6, but the 7.5 seems to have a 135mm rear axe like mtb (instead of 130mm for race road bikes); it may be a limiting point if you want to change wheels.
  • This is highly irksome, but the smallest size the ridgeback genesis comes in is 52cm, which is 20 inches approx. According to the method of 0.67 x your in-leg length (or whatever the figure was), with me having a length of 29inches, I need a bike with an 18inch frame (in terms of a hybrid bike). So i need something closer to 46cm. I think I will just go with the FX 7.6 At least I know the frame should be ok for me (17.5inches) and most people do seem to be happy with it.

    Likewise, Kona PhD was about 52cm only.

    I had a look as the Sorrius, globe pro etc, and they all start at a 52cm frame. Because my last bike was the Urban 400 with a frame far too large for me (which has led to me needing to hunch forward to reach the bars), I am apprehensive about making the mistake of getting an oversized frame again. The calculation says 18inch/46cm, so I intend to stick to that (and a test ride of course).

    Thanks for the tips everyone

    I just did an online calculation (i remeasured my inseam at 28.5inches) and it recommends:

    Road
    Frame Size: 49 cm. 19 in.
    Crank Length: 170mm

    Mountain
    Frame Size: 38 cm. 15 in.
    Crank Length: 172.5mm
    Mountain frames have a sloping top-tube and are generally fitted by top-tube length.

    Seat Height
    64 cm. 25 in.


    I also rang one of the bike dealers, and for a hybrid, he said 18inches should be fine, since the above info confused me as to which size is for a hybrid, the road or mountain calculation.
    I'm guessing/hoping that a 17.5inch 7.6fx frame will be adequate.

    By the way, is the 7.6FX truly a hybrid model, or more of a road model? This differentiation makes a big difference in the calculations. Why does is come with thin tyres if it's a hybrid? Then again, why does it use the 105 series (road series of gears) instead of the XT series (MTB series) of gears?
  • johnno_ukjohnno_uk Posts: 30

    By the way, is the 7.6FX truly a hybrid model, or more of a road model? This differentiation makes a big difference in the calculations. Why does is come with thin tyres if it's a hybrid? Then again, why does it use the 105 series (road series of gears) instead of the XT series (MTB series) of gears?

    Its probably trying to be a bit of everything to be honest, and i think it does that well. I did a 25 mile on Sunday on it and averaged between 15-16mph out in the country and i felt i could have gone another hour or so without much trouble as its very comfy. Tyres are 28mm which are on balance OK but still a bit tricky in the wet - but for the censored road surfaces they cope well. I have a Bianchi road bike and used to have an older Trek 7300 - i'd say its definitely closer to the road bike, but just much more forgiving at the expense of a bit of speed. If you were to do any trails, would definitely need some bigger tyres though..... Its not rugged enough to do any MTB stuff to be honest - shouldn't be trying that with on a bike like that. :shock:

    I'd ride one and try. :shock: :shock:
  • Ok, I am now looking at tyres. Rather than upgrading to the next bike in my size, which might cost me up to £300 more, I am thinking of saving that money and perhaps getting:
    Continental Top Contact Tyre:
    The replacement to the famous Top Touring 2000 - Features two layers (breakers) of Vectran underneath the tread - the only tyre to do so - Fibres made from Vectran are five times as strong as steel - very lightweight and are extremely durable - Two layers of Vectran give fantastic breakdown resistance - Reflective sidewalls for safety - Wire bead

    The cost is about £30, so i will probably change both tyres.
    My hybrid 2 bikes ago had thinner tyres than my claud-butler urban 400 did, and after a crash on a roundabout in the rain (could have been so much worse), I am rather paranoid about this happening again, so I would rather get tyres with more grip as Johno_uk recommended, but while I am at it, I might as well get ones which aren't likely to puncture.
    Apparently,. the manufacturer of these tyres guarantees a free tyre replacement if you don't have a puncture-free first year.

    I am also considering:
    Schwalbe Marathon Plus Tyre:
    Punctures are just a memory with the new SmartGuard Marathon Plus Tyre. - The SmartGuard layer made from a flexible special rubber offers particular resistance to shards of glass and flints. - Tests have shown not even a thumbtack placed in the tyre can penetrate the protective layer. - SmartGuard belt does not increase rolling resistance. Rolls as easy as a tyre without protection. - Reflective 3M Scothlite sidewall layer. - 580g

    and:
    Specialized Crossroads Armadillo Elite Tyre

    The legendary meets the future. The Crossroads is one of the all time best selling treads which has now been combined with the latest in Flat Jacket protection Armadillo Elite - Perfect tyre for a wide array of applications be it unpaved paths to the city streets it performs reliably and consistently with a smooth centre tread section and substantial side knobs for traction and off road stability. - Reinforced against punctures with Specializeds proprietary Armadillo Elite casing this tyre makes flats and commuter traffic obsolete. - Aramid bead and a dual 70/60 compound.

    Johnny_uk mentioned that he was able to upgrade his tyres. Anyone know what size I should go for? 700x38? or closer to 700x32? That is if I want to feel secure cycling in the rain of UK, but not lose out too much on performance.

    Sorry, I know all these are pretty basic questions.
  • Johnno, just saw your post. Unfortunately, my dealer needs to order the trek in for me, so I need to kind of decide beforehand. They have said they would exchange it if it doesn't fit, but waiting 7-10days for ordering in, 2-3days for assembling only to say I don't like it seems a bit off, though acceptable if I hate it.
    Still, for a £700, i don't see why I shouldn't love it when the frame size is perfect for me and they have modded the handle bars so I can sit perfectly upright on it.

    At least now I know, the stock tyres which you took a fall with are 700x28. So I assume that 700x32 hybrid model tyres (the ones they supply - Bontrager Race Lite Hardcase, are actually road tyres not hybrid according to the shop i looked at online) should be ok. I'm guessing 700x37/38 is closer to mountain bike style thickness?

    I will not use it on trails. I prefer walking in woods, parks etc than cycling. At most, I will cycle on canal paths/footpaths as a short cut, but 90% will be roads. I just wanted the hybrid + new tyres due to the pot holes, glass etc and also being able to go up and down curbs occasionally without worrying so much.
  • Dammit! now my dealer is saying their supplier is completely sold out of the 17.5" trek 7.6fx. Prob until the 2009 models are out in sept

    actually several dealers seem to be out of them now.

    Seems the new trek models will be out in Oct, not september. Perhaps I will look into other makes or have to increase my budget.
  • johnno_ukjohnno_uk Posts: 30
    there is always the 7.7 if you're flush with cash : it looks a nice spec - i didn't check it out as i couldn't stretch that far in £ terms - its extra £300 !!
  • Well, flush with credit! I found one site that offers 0% on the trek 7.7fx if you pay £250 deposit and around £20/month over 3 yrs.

    Or, I could use my credit card which is interest free for 10months and be frugal for a while.

    Is the trek 7.7fx really worth £300 more when one considers the specs?

    I was also thinking about going back to being a pedestrian. The time I use the bike is for a 4mile trip (8miles both ways) to some voluntary conservation work I do once a week. I could always do the 8miles by walking I suppose.

    I was also going to use the bike for short distance trips like meeting friends. However, what with working 6days & volunteering for another half day, I don't really have the time for a social life anyway.

    decisions decisions...
  • marcbamarcba Posts: 84
    So the FX bikes have supply problem in UK too (I has been waiting for my bike during 2 months, and I was not alone in such a case).

    For me the FX bikes are multi-purpose road bikes intented to ride on ant kind of road and on very good track. Long chainstay makes them to be stable and quite comfortable (for aluminium frame).
    Reading the specifications of the 7.6 and 7.7 models makes me think that 7.7 intends to be more sportive. Both share same frame and fork, but 7.7 has better wheels, higher level equipments and 10 speeds (Ultegra 10 speeds againts 105 used only with 9 speeds).

    If it will be your main bike, used for regular commuting but also for week-end sportive and recreational rides, why not pay the extra 300 pounds. If it's only for commuting, and you have other bikes for extra rides (or you don't ride otherwise), if you are reluctant to pay that extra 300 pounds over your foreseen budget, if you don't mind at all to wait several months for 2009 models, then you better think more than twice before doing this purchase.
  • Thanks for the tips. Yes, I will be using the bike as my car replacement for meeting friends, maybe biking it to the station to commute into the city, cycling on weekends to my volunteering etc.

    I have rung around about the availability of the 7.6fx and 7.7fx at another bike dealer which is a bit further from my house, but still manageable. The alternative to the 7.7fx for me is the Genesis Day 03, but the smallest size this comes in is 52cm which is 20.5 inches. Larger than the 18inches the calculator said I needed for a hybrid bike...
  • Interesting...I just spoke to my "LBS", (well a 1hr commute into the city anyway), and the person was really helpful. He said that I could go with a Genesis Day 03, but since I want to make it completely upright, it would be a shame to do that to that model since it is designed so that the weight is distributed with the person leaning forward on the bars so you get really good cornering etc. He advised me to look at the Sirrus range instead. They don't deal in treks, but do Marin, Specialized, Ridgeback, and Kona (in the hybrids anyway).

    The thing annoying me about the Sirrus pro is how for £1300 it uses Shimano 105 whereas Trek and other models use Ultegra at that price.

    I think that if i am going to purchase a bike, I might as well either get the trek 7.7fx online and mod it locally.

    I get the feeling, that the FX range is more upright than the Sirrus range, therefore raising the handle bars to give it a completely upright riding posture is less likely to effect the performance. It's a shame because this bike shop seemed really helpful and I would have liked to buy it from them, but it just seems a waste for me to pay £1300 (£600 more than I planned) and have the same gears (is this called drivetrain?) on it, but with more carbon contruction, tempered by the fact that I carry a 5kg (10lb) motorcycle chain on my bike anyway.

    By the way, this review says that they would take the Sirrus Pro (£1300) over the trek 7.9fx (£1500) or the Sirrus Ltd (£1700) model:

    http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... d-08-30240
  • Ok, let's think about it this way. Let's say my budget is not important. The salesman informed me that some bikes are just plain designed in such a manner that they perform best with one learning over putting weight on the front and making it an upright bike with the weight on the seat would be worse for say the Genesis Day 03 than other bikes. So, discarding budget, what would be the best hybrid higher end spec bike which I could mod for a completely upright seating position and still not lose out. He mentioned the Sirrus range which means:
    Sirrus Pro (£1300)
    Sirrus Ltd 2007 (£1700)

    any other ideas? I am still looking into getting the Trek 7.6fx / 7.7fx. Does anyone know if these are designed to have most of the weight on the front?

    Another idea is the Marin Highway One 2007 - £1400 (down from £1600 apparently). Again, not too sure if this bike is meant to be upright or not.
  • ride_wheneverride_whenever Posts: 13,279
    have you looked at pashley, they do some excellent uprights that are very comfy indeed.
  • The problem with pashley bikes is that they only seem to come with 3-5gears. Frame sizes seem pretty large too. Thanks for the idea though

    The way I see it, the completely upright position will cause me trouble (but at least my backpain will not be aggravated) in windy conditions. However, a decent number of gears, ideally 105 or ultegra will help to offset this.

    The more I read about carbon frames, the more I am attracted to how they cushion the ride a lot more than alluminium. Although I hear that they might be more likely to crack?

    This is how I would ideally sit on a higher spec bike:
    saddles_cruiserprofile_05_p.gif

    Any ideas? Bear in mind I am in UK

    I am limiting myself to Evans Cycles and Cycle Surgery since those two are relatively easy to get to (Evans being preferable since it's only one bus ride) and the other limitation being I am only 5 foot 6.5 inches with a 29inch inseam.

    update: I think that rather than worrying about how the upright position is more likely to transmit shocks directly into the back etc, I will invest in a plush spring saddle rather than spending £100's more on a carbon frame.
  • marcbamarcba Posts: 84
    I don't understand why you are looking at this kind of bikes (called fitness or hybrid) which have a reduce sportive objective compared to "regular" race road bikes, but still have a sportive attitude and an adapted cyclist position, when you want a bike wih a completely upright position.
    By the way, have you made this choice by yourself or are you following personal advice from back specialist having reasonnable knowledge of bike ?
    Mayby an upright position won't strech a painfull back, but every bumps of the road may have bad effect on a quite vertical back.
    Whatever your bike choice, it is quite easy to change stem in order to have a more upright position.

    About the bikes sizes and the theoritical size calculator:
    Size calculators should be taken into account as a guide, but not as a law, since sizes are often not corresponding from one brand to another (it depends on how they measure their frames (if it is the seat tube length, then it may depend whether it is measured at the top or at the junction with horizontal tube; and the slope of this "horizontal" tube has an impact too...). I think that theoritical horizontal tube length is a good clue to compare frames from different brands.
  • judokevjudokev Posts: 49
    Hi again Watcher

    I think my msg got missed or ignored not sure so i will try again

    Click on search right hand side of page and type "Looking 4 a flat bar" in the subject with Judokev as the author one guy has the scott s30 flatbar and says he likes it one other guy has back problems and neck problems so needs to be upright when he is riding, send him a msg and pick his brains anyone who doesnt have back and neck trouble is just guessing really.

    Loads of really nice bikes recommended to me just some out of my price range

    Judokev
  • Hi Judokev,

    Sorry, yes I did find your thread as soon as you posted it. I think you were referring to Geoff_SS's post who has arthritis in the neck and shoulders.

    Mine is more to do with lower back pain, so I can't be bothered with learning forward.
    I will have a look at recommended bikes on the page and see if any of my LBSs sell them.

    Also, from my trip to Amsterdam, I did envy the way they could sit relaxing on the bike in an upright position. True, Amsterdam is primarily flat with narrow streets, however, this is why I am aiming to get a non steel frame bike with excellent quality gears(as opposed to their bikes which are steel framed with only 1-5gears). My longest commute as present is only 5 miles. Any further and I use public transport.

    About Marcba's comment about how upright seating position transmits all bumps directly to the back, this is true, however, this is why I was going to invest in one of these:

    169b33.jpeg
    The brooks B33 saddle. This is what I was referring to when I said I would invest in a plush spring loaded saddle to help with backpain from the upright position.

    At the end of the day, compared to me walking everywhere like I generally do, a bike is always going to be far faster, no matter how inefficient my seating pose. However, I am going for a relatively top spec model to negate this.
  • Watcher,

    If you are still following this thread and haven't bought your bike yet, I just picked up the Scott S30 FB from Evans Cycles. The 2008 bikes went on clearance a couple of days ago and the Scott was £100 off. I reckon some or all of the other bikes you discussed are on sale too.

    You could wait and see if they drop further but then you run the risk they won't have your size.
  • Like others on this thread I ride a Trek 7.6FX and like you before taking the plunge I looked at many different bikes. I went for the 7.6FX for two reasons 1) A very good LBS that let me try one out for a decent ride and 2) It seemed to have the best mix and flexibility with Carbon seat stays and forks and decent components with enough gears to get me up any hill.

    I must say I have had it about 18 months and done in excess of 1,000 miles on it and it is very reliable comfortable and I have been very happy. I average around 25-30miles on a sat and sunday each week and have done rides of over 60 miles on it and never had back trouble or felt uncomfortable on it.

    I often am able to keep up with people on road bikes and it is no slouch and good going up hill. I do a little off road on canal paths etc. and it copes with these very easily. You can stick mudguards on and this flexibility means I can use it all year round.

    Only thing I will say is that the current 09 colour of Blue is not to my liking.
    The main contender when I bought was the Specialized Sirrus Comp which was a little cheaper but similar spec. My brother has one of these and is happy with it.
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