Bike road positioning

stevett

There's another small article in this months magazine, or rather a reply to someone's letter regarding road position and the fact that it is safer to position yourself a metre from the curb so that traffic treats you more like a car rather than squeezing past you and endangering you.

Countless times i'm out riding and have cars squeeze past between me and a traffic island, centimetres from my bars. But i just dont have the heart to sit 1 metre out from the curb. It would just cause so much bad feeling from car users. Can you imagine the wrath?! Its an ideal which I long for, but is it practical? I suppose if we all adopted this practice it would become the norm.

Also, how an earth does cycling 1 metre from the curb fit in with cycling lanes? the cycle lanes round my way (Kent) often consist of just a 2 foot portion of the left hand side of the road. Cycling 1 metre out would put you outside the cycle lane.

Parkey

If you cycle in the gutter you aren't asserting your right to space on the road, so others will abuse it.

You are also less likely to be seen, so it's more likely that someone will pull out of a junction in front of you. You will also be riding on the worst part of the road surface where there's debris, drain covers, potholes, etc.

You shouldn't deliberately block other people, but it's a heck of a lot safter to follow the advice you've read and ride further out.

ride_whenever

I cycle like a white van, I might piss a few people off, but in the long run it is a whole lot safer for me, because i'm visible and less likely to be cut up really badly.

redvee

With cycle lanes I tend to ride so that the outer white line is between the right hand end of the bars and wheels, so in effect I'm still within the cycle lane but far enough out to be a prescence to other road users.

victor ludorum

SteveTT wrote:

Countless times i'm out riding and have cars squeeze past between me and a traffic island, centimetres from my bars. But i just dont have the heart to sit 1 metre out from the curb. It would just cause so much bad feeling from car users. Can you imagine the wrath?! Its an ideal which I long for, but is it practical?

Most drivers aren't angry cycle haters, but their appreciation of the difficulties of handling a bike in traffic is limited. Even if they are keen cyclists themselves their perception of safe distances, etc, alters because of their medium of transport. If you are aware of this, and ride assertively and predictably, it becomes easier for you to dictate the terms on which they interact with you.

When you approach a traffic island, don't place yourself a metre from the curb, put yourself in the middle of the lane so no-one can try and force their way past. But do it in plenty of time so that other road users have time to adapt. You often see riders approaching parked cars or stopped buses and pulling right up behind them before turning a right angle into oncoming traffic to skirt the edge of the obstacle. If they placed themselves in a safer overtaking position they wouldn't have to stop and start or pull out suddenly risking a collision with a dozy driver in the other lane.

Riding safely in traffic is not about being fast, it is about being visible and predictable. If you force other road users to respect your space, and if you behave predictably, generally they won't try to bully you.

Equally, the thinking behind narrow cycle lanes is that they 'guarantee' the cyclist some space secure from other vehicles (hence the unbroken white line). However, in practice, what they tend to do is give drivers the idea that there is just enough space for them to pass, even if there isn't.

You aren't required to ride in cycle lanes at all if you don't want to. You can't be reasonably expected to if they are badly designed or obstructed. You should treat cycle lanes as a tool to liberate you from the pressures of having to fight for road space all the time, not as something which restricts your ability to move and keeps you away from traffic. You aren't an obstruction to traffic, you are traffic.)

Obviously, cars are capable of going faster than you are most of the time, and you have to be considerate. If the route ahead of you is clear and making space for cars to pass is safe, then do so. But don't let them dictate to you when they are going to over-take. the decision of when to make space is yours not theirs.

Basically, if you ride assertively, but considerately, paying attention to what's going on ahead of you so that you can modify your road position smoothly and predictably there won't be any need for wrath on the part of drivers. (There's always the odd nutter, but that is the same for any human enterprise...)

stevett

A fast road near me narrows towards the top with a double white line in the middle and only enough room for one car. As it nears the top of the hill there's a bend. The speed limit is 60 and cars readily travel this fast. There are drains that need to be avoided. In order to do this i either have to pass to the left of the drain and up against a verge/hillside or pass to the right which places me (remembering the lane is little more than a car width wide) into the path of speeding traffic.

I usually pass to the right of the drains, and feel i should be further out still, however I feel very vunerable against speeding traffic which has a limited time to see me after coming round the bend.

Its easy to say, stay further out in the lane, however, it lends itself no better protection to a car travelling at 60 in which it has a couple of seconds to avoid you or slow to 15mph.

Lets face it, if there's oncoming traffic, a car is going to probably hit a soft target, rather than risk hitting the oncoming car.

clanton

victor ludorum wrote:

SteveTT wrote:

Countless times i'm out riding and have cars squeeze past between me and a traffic island, centimetres from my bars. But i just dont have the heart to sit 1 metre out from the curb. It would just cause so much bad feeling from car users. Can you imagine the wrath?! Its an ideal which I long for, but is it practical?

Most drivers aren't angry cycle haters, but their appreciation of the difficulties of handling a bike in traffic is limited. Even if they are keen cyclists themselves their perception of safe distances, etc, alters because of their medium of transport. If you are aware of this, and ride assertively and predictably, it becomes easier for you to dictate the terms on which they interact with you.

When you approach a traffic island, don't place yourself a metre from the curb, put yourself in the middle of the lane so no-one can try and force their way past. But do it in plenty of time so that other road users have time to adapt. You often see riders approaching parked cars or stopped buses and pulling right up behind them before turning a right angle into oncoming traffic to skirt the edge of the obstacle. If they placed themselves in a safer overtaking position they wouldn't have to stop and start or pull out suddenly risking a collision with a dozy driver in the other lane.

Riding safely in traffic is not about being fast, it is about being visible and predictable. If you force other road users to respect your space, and if you behave predictably, generally they won't try to bully you.

Equally, the thinking behind narrow cycle lanes is that they 'guarantee' the cyclist some space secure from other vehicles (hence the unbroken white line). However, in practice, what they tend to do is give drivers the idea that there is just enough space for them to pass, even if there isn't.

You aren't required to ride in cycle lanes at all if you don't want to. You can't be reasonably expected to if they are badly designed or obstructed. You should treat cycle lanes as a tool to liberate you from the pressures of having to fight for road space all the time, not as something which restricts your ability to move and keeps you away from traffic. You aren't an obstruction to traffic, you are traffic.)

Obviously, cars are capable of going faster than you are most of the time, and you have to be considerate. If the route ahead of you is clear and making space for cars to pass is safe, then do so. But don't let them dictate to you when they are going to over-take. the decision of when to make space is yours not theirs.

Basically, if you ride assertively, but considerately, paying attention to what's going on ahead of you so that you can modify your road position smoothly and predictably there won't be any need for wrath on the part of drivers. (There's always the odd nutter, but that is the same for any human enterprise...)

What he said!

victor ludorum

SteveTT wrote:

A fast road near me narrows towards the top with a double white line in the middle and only enough room for one car. As it nears the top of the hill there's a bend. The speed limit is 60 and cars readily travel this fast. There are drains that need to be avoided. In order to do this i either have to pass to the left of the drain and up against a verge/hillside or pass to the right which places me (remembering the lane is little more than a car width wide) into the path of speeding traffic.

I usually pass to the right of the drains, and feel i should be further out still, however I feel very vunerable against speeding traffic which has a limited time to see me after coming round the bend.

Its easy to say, stay further out in the lane, however, it lends itself no better protection to a car travelling at 60 in which it has a couple of seconds to avoid you or slow to 15mph.

Lets face it, if there's oncoming traffic, a car is going to probably hit a soft target, rather than risk hitting the oncoming car.

I'm afraid I don't have the answer to that one... But, the principle of visibility and predictability still apply. Under these circumstances, (high speeds, narrow roads and a blind bend) I would advocate that you take whatever posture puts you at the least risk at that point. Otherwise, 60mph, 30mph, 10mph, you do what you can to control the circumstances. It can be un-nerving, but most drivers will not willfully put you at risk.

victor ludorum

Actually, on consideration, exactly the same rules apply.

As you approach a blind bend, especially one you know is there, pull out safely into the centre of the lane and navigate the bend. This means that any driver behind you will see you and know that you are there. If they aren't close enough to see you before you enter the bend, then they won't be close enough to reach you before you leave the blind bend.

Your only problem is people who see you and don't care, or people overtaking on the blind bend on the other side. But then, that applies to any road user. Roads can be dangerous places...

Oddballcp

Firstly: ignore cycle lanes if they're too narrow or in the wrong place.
Secondly, don't let the motorist behind you think that you're giving him room to pass by riding in the gutter. Keep out so that he has to wait until there really is room to pass you safely. Don't feel guilty about it, traffic holds up traffic but mostly bikes hold it up less.

OffTheBackAdam

We cause fewer hold-ups than say Tractors, and can you get those buggers to move over & let cars past?
Ride away from the gutter, you'll avoid drains, other debris that's likely to damage tyres/wheels and it gives a bit of a berth to pedestrians, who quite happily step out into the road without looking!
If it's safe to move in, do so, it let's motorists know that you do care that you're holding them up.

Jeremy Parker

SteveTT wrote:

There's another small article in this months magazine, or rather a reply to someone's letter regarding road position and the fact that it is safer to position yourself a metre from the curb so that traffic treats you more like a car rather than squeezing past you and endangering you.

[snip]
.

Actually, any answer that gives a distance to the kerb is wrong. You don't want to ride parallel to kerb at all - kerbs go in and out. Ride parallel to the other traffic instead.

If you see a bike lane stripe wiggling in and out parallel to a kerb, that is a useful warning that the traffic engineers in that district are malicious, stupid or, at best, extremely ignorant. Take precautions accordingly.

British bike books talk about "primary postion" and "secondary position". John Franklin's "Cyclecraft" is the bible. However, American bike books talk about wide lanes and narrow lanes, which I find clearer.

In a wide lane, courtesy demands that you share the lane with cars. In a narrow lane self preservation requires that you keep the cars out. It's your call which is which - you have more at stake than the driver.

Remember how you look from behind, to your neighbour in a car, If you huddle against the kerb, there can be only one reason, you are making room for him to overtake in your lane. Thus you are sending out two messages, very clearly

1. You want that motorist to overtake

2. You are therefore telling him that it is safe for him to overtake

Those are not messages that you should send unless you really want to

It's paricularly important not to let cars overtake you at a traffic island. Don't ride inthe centre of the gap, but do ride further out than 1 metre. About a third of the way out might be about right.

It's silly to worry about the anger of any motorists behind you. The time the motorist will be alongside the island and you will be pretty short.

If the motorist really is angry his car will be equipped with a horn with which he can relieve his frustrations, but he will only have time, at best, for one brief honk.

Jeremy Parker

Jeremy Parker

SteveTT wrote:

[snip]

Also, how an earth does cycling 1 metre from the curb fit in with cycling lanes? the cycle lanes round my way (Kent) often consist of just a 2 foot portion of the left hand side of the road. Cycling 1 metre out would put you outside the cycle lane.

Bike lanes have two purposes, and neither of those is to help cyclists

1. So the politicians can claim to have done some something. As Sir Humphrey said in "Yes Minister" once. "We've got to do something. This is something, so we've got to do it."

2. To "speed the flow of traffic" You are not traffic. No human being is traffic. Only tin boxes are traffic.

Bike lanes speed traffic by making cyclists invisible. They put you outside the motorists' lane, so that the motorists will not think about you. This will avoid the delays caused by motorists deviating from their path, or slowing down.

Jeremy Parker

karl j

SteveTT wrote:

... i just dont have the heart to sit 1 metre out from the curb. It would just cause so much bad feeling from car users. Can you imagine the wrath?!

Yes. The result, possibly, being something like this

stevett

I've been taking a far more assertive attitude lately to my road positioning, just to see if the advocates if this stance are pushing a worthwhile cause.

Most drivers tend to hang back and then overtake only when there's room. But this is the case whether cycling a foot from the curb as it is when cycling a metre out in a more assertive position. For example, if i cycle further out, I am providing a more visible area from a drivers perspective, however, car drivers still push through very close to my elbow when there's the slightest chance of passing. Again this puts a cyclist in the same position. So whilst you may become more visible to a car driver, you in no way avoid to any greater degree the dangers of the impatient motorist.

I've also noticed that most other cyclists on the road do not adhere to this assertive stance and maintain a distance of little more than a drain width from the curb. My mind keeps thinking of those 'think bike' ads and the need for a sea change in attitudes in this country from motorists and their treatment of cyclists on the road. This is particularly stark having just got back from a holiday in France where motorists have a far higher regard for the cyclist.

markos1963

In general car drivers want predictability, so whatever distance you ride out from the curb you need to be smooth in your movements. Thats why the 1 metre rule is used as you won't need to swing in and out around road obstacles. I use this method and in general I don't get many problems. I do tend to take control of situations such as left hand bends in the country that are narrow, I gently move towards the centre of the road, this reminds car drivers that they risk a head-on if they overtake and stops them cutting across you.

Tom Butcher

Jeremy Parker wrote:

Actually, any answer that gives a distance to the kerb is wrong. You don't want to ride parallel to kerb at all - kerbs go in and out. Ride parallel to the other traffic instead.

That is very true. I'm sure we've all at times followed the edge of the road on a left hand bend only to find vehicles cutting very close to us at the apex. It's one of those things you pick up with experience. There's a piece of road in Derby - next to the fire station in Chad - where there's a left hand filter cycle lane at some lights so you often end up positioned on the left - the road is bending slightly right then it goes left and as it does so if you have a bus behind you it will inevitably almost clip the apex if you don't take the whole lane and stop it overtaking.

jedster

For example, if i cycle further out, I am providing a more visible area from a drivers perspective, however, car drivers still push through very close to my elbow when there's the slightest chance of passing. Again this puts a cyclist in the same position. So whilst you may become more visible to a car driver, you in no way avoid to any greater degree the dangers of the impatient motorist.

Steve,

I'm sorry that you have found that. It is not my experience. I am now very assertive with my road positioning and suffer many fewer dodgy overtakes as a result. I always get out of the way as soon as it is safe to do so. In fact I "swoop" towards the kerb sending a clear signal that
a) there is now room for them to pass
b) I'm trying to be helpful, not holding them up just to be an @rse

I find this does a pretty decent job of puncturing their impatience.

I'd say persevere. It feels uncomfortable at first but it is REALLY important.

J

Tail end Charlie

I'm with the last poster in every respect. Position yourself well out and you will have far fewer close shaves than if you are closer in which encourages people to squeeze past.
On a slightly different note last night someone told me my rear lights were too bright, the conversation continued
"so you saw me then, that's all I'm trying to do"
"oh yes I did, but at that narrow part back there there was a car coming the opposite way and your lights blinded me a bit"
"What did you do?"
"I braked and slowed down, so I wouldn't knock you off!!!"

I have two Smart Superflash lights on the back BTW.

Tom Butcher

I'm surprised anyone would complain about those Smart lights - they are great lights but not blindingly so - when you go out on a winter chain gang you've normally got at least a couple of lads with those on their bikes/jerseys.

Tail end Charlie

I've found the Smart lights (1/2 watt Superflash ones) to be the brightest out there. Angle them so they point directly into the faces of drivers! In a chain gang they won't be pointing directly at you.

Mithras

If you want to know, read cyclecraft.
And if you ever get stopped by anyone and harangued for your position on the road you can point to the relevant article.

In certain situations it may be safer to use all the space that your side of the road or lane allows, i.e. take a position in the centre of the lane or your side of the road. This may be necessary if there is not enough room for cars to overtake you without forcing you too close to parked cars or the side of the road. You should also take all of your lane when approaching a junction where it might be unsafe for a vehicle to be next to you or to come alongside you (for instance where it might turn across the front of you - “cutting you up”). If there is a car behind you a quick look at the driver and a hand signal will indicate that you are about to move out into the centre of the road/lane. Once you feel that it is safe for the vehicle to overtake you can move across and allow them to do so.

Try to keep at least a door’s width from parked cars, as doors may open into your path. If the road has parked cars on both sides and there is no space for you and an oncoming vehicle to pass, slow down, and if necessary stop. You have equal right of way with other road users, but in all situations your safety should be your primary concern.

If you are stuck in traffic and vehicles are blocking your way forward you should not mount the kerb and ride on the pavement. Instead, wait until you can safely cycle forward, or get off and walk your bike until you can cycle on the road again.

davbay

Parkey is bang on: you have to assert your right to use of the road.

Cycling at least 1m out allows you room to manoeuvre should you need to pull in more or avoide something like debris.

There are certain occasions when I move to the centre of the road to make sure I'm seen for example at a motorway juntion bridge where there are 4 junctions - 2 motorways slip road exits and 2 entry points which meet opposite one another.

I also where a cool high viz jacket and have umpten lights on my bike.

If you bimble along woried about upsetting drivers then your affirming their ides that your a nuisance on the road and they wont repsect you.

eternal_headwind

Agreed, we are traffic and have a right to be considered as such. I also try to give frendly a 'thank you' where possible. It may help to break that confrontational stance.

eternal_headwind

Agreed, we are traffic and have a right to be considered as such. I also try to give frendly a 'thank you' where possible. It may help to break that confrontational stance.

dag_on_a_bike

As ever, cycling in France seems to project a far more positive attitude.

While riding around in the Pyrenees recently, I encountered a number of signs warning road users of the likely presence of cyclists, and to allow 1.5m clearance.

Now that is a sensible provision, and in my experience it was well heeded.

landrew

I agree with the previous posts. As cyclists we have as much right to be on the road as other vehicles and knowing this helps you to ride assertively. The comment about predicability is spot on - if you ride assertive other road users will be able to predict your actions and respond appropiately. Most drivers will prefer this sort of riding to the cylcists who ride too close to the kerb and unexpectedly move out to avoid drains etc.

jimmypippa

Hi, first post here, :

I commute down the A6 into Manchester (13 miles each way), with a lot of quarry lorries on the road, not too many junctions or traffic lights

I find that cycling a reasonable distance out (*smothly* pulling out to avoid potholes and parked cars), and cycling *further* out through traffic islands, combined with the ostentattious "swooping" in when safe (as mentioned earlier in this thread) do work fo me.

Obviously looking to turn right (slowin downm rearward glances, hand ready for indicating right) and attempting (brief!) eye-contact with the cars behind me, with acknowledging their (usual) slowing down to let me pass seems to make for a surprisingly low-hassle journey.

normanp

I'm with Eternal Headwind: round here there are a lot of small lanes. I cycle well out then move distinctly left when it is safe to pass, wave the driver through and always wave a thanks to them for being patient. Often drivers thank me before I get a chance to thank them. They appreciate predictability and clarity. I feel I am on a bit of a mission to improve motorists' attitudes to bikers & build a good relationship with them (as horseriders seem to have) and I'm sure the same drivers see me again on my regular routes. I can't stop them driving on my routes but at least I can try to help them drive safely.

singlespeedexplosif

it's all been said above - you're much safer and probably pissing off fewer drivers by riding a good distance from the kerb and holding your position. Move further out to make it impossible to pass you at traffic islands etc but acknowledge the car which may have been delayed a few seconds by you doing so.
Bike lanes = worse than useless. Can't remember the last time I used one. Far safer/better on the road.

xpc316e

There are huge amounts of common sense being posted here, and as a Road Safety Officer may I say how encoraging it is to see just how many people are getting it right. I ride a recumbent trike and you don't need to do that for long before you realise that the more room you take up, the more room the average driver will give you. I try hard to give drivers an opportunity to safely overtake when I can, and always thank them when they pass if I have held them up (even if only for a few measly seconds).

Hopefully Bikeability training, and Cyclecraft, will eventually do away with the notion that we ought to ride in the gutter, next to the kerb, and be grateful for the tiny spaces some drivers give us.