Millar - Ricco Little Bastard. VandeVelde & Cav heroes

Peakraider

PutneyJoe wrote:

He's a great writer. Really like his stuff.

He doesn't write it.

Peakraider

Graeme_S wrote:

Peakraider wrote:

Effectively implicates Cadel and Silence Lotto by omitting them from his list of good guys.

He's specifically named his team mate who's 3rd in the GC, and his countryman who's won 3 stages. I don't think you can read anything into him excluding anyone from that list.

He named the teams who have their own internal anti-doping regimes. Silence aren't among them.

jswba

For me, part of the anger in Millar's words is directed at himself and part of his disappointment in Ricco stems from his love of cycling as a sport. He knows the damage that dopers have done and are doing to the sport. OK, so he might come across as sanctimonious at times, but I get the sense that he's a genuine guy trying to atone for his past mistakes. Like others have said, it's also nice to see a rider not hiding behind innocuous comments designed not to offend the peloton or the sponsors.

Peakraider

Top_Bhoy wrote:

skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:

I want to see dopers caught and nothing Millar has said or done contributes to this aim even though he undoubtedly could. What then gives him the right to be questioning others morals in an openly aggressive manner? Sweet FA thats what!!

How do you know he hasn't named people?

skavanagh.bikeradar

For some people then Millar isn't ever going to do anything right. For my part I couldn't stand him before his fall from grace but he's convinced me since his return that he's a force for some good in the sport.

As regard Chambers - both he and Millar are subject to the same Olympic ban and both are equally able to ply their trade anywhere and everywhere else. Millar isn't in court trying to overturn it though is he? Again I'd rather have a Millar than a Chambers in the public eye on the doping issue.

Both are capable of polarising opinions then, but there is an obvious difference in their attitudes to their respective punishments as evidenced by the current Chambers court case.

top_bhoy

andyp wrote:

Top_Bhoy wrote:

In reading a large part of that article, it is his whole pious and overly aggressive attitude which is hard to take.

Looked in a mirror lately?

.....and you're point being?I have no idea what you're trying to achieve with this? I've never been found guilty of cheating at anything - unlike Millar. Seems a strange statement for you to make to someone unknown to you.

Is the fact I don't like that aggressive and sanctamonious style of writing and prepared to say so, annoy you?

The guy screwed up and got caught out otherwise he'd still be doing what he seems to be so reviled at what Ricco done. Call me old fashioned but he only seems to have morals now he has been caught and knows now his chance in the peleton is much reduced. Pity he didn't think about the non-dopers during his previous life as a peleton doping cheat.

skavanagh.bikeradar

I think the question/reference was to do with your overly aggressive attitude.

RichN95.

As far as I'm concerned the views a genuinely repentant sinner are worth those of ten squeaky clean self-righteous people.

That makes me sound like a vicar doesn't it.

A similar, real world, situation: I occasionally meet teenagers who have the occasional cigarette. Their non-smoking parents tell them not to smoke and they don't listen. I, as a twenty a day smoker, tell them to quit whilst it's still easy to do so and explain from experience why they should, and they actually listen and quit.

top_bhoy

RichN95 wrote:

As far as I'm concerned the views a genuinely repentant sinner are worth those of ten squeaky clean self-righteous people.

That makes me sound like a vicar doesn't it.

A similar, real world, situation: I occasionally meet teenagers who have the occasional cigarette. Their non-smoking parents tell them not to smoke and they don't listen. I, as a twenty a day smoker, tell them to quit whilst it's still easy to do so and explain from experience why they should, and they actually listen and quit.

I agree with your analogy - but read what Millar has to say. If he was offering advice then great, whether you agreed with it or not. However, he is far from offering advice, which is what you'd be saying to the kids who smoke. Millar is looking for Ricco to be hung drawn and quartered - which is where I have a major issue with him and his attitude given his own previous misdemeanours.

Moomaloid

Makes me feel queasy reading it. Millar's a c**k... always will be... (please be aware these are my views)

Peakraider

skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:

I think the question/reference was to do with your overly aggressive attitude.

Or maybe the sanctimony. Or piety. Or self-righteousness.

skavanagh.bikeradar

Do you mean me?

top_bhoy

skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:

I think the question/reference was to do with your overly aggressive attitude.

Really!!! Calling a reformed doping cheat who decries other peoples guilt from the pulpit of his website as being santimonious and hyprocritical is hard to say without using these words. Whereas, Millar could easily have put over his anger at Ricco in a far less confrontational manner. For me he is publicity seeking hoping media attention catches it. I guess the views on him are so polarised there ain't much room in between.

andyp

Top_Bhoy wrote:

.....and you're point being?I have no idea what you're trying to achieve with this? I've never been found guilty of cheating at anything - unlike Millar. Seems a strange statement for you to make to someone unknown to you.

Is the fact I don't like that aggressive and sanctamonious style of writing and prepared to say so, annoy you?

The guy screwed up and got caught out otherwise he'd still be doing what he seems to be so reviled at what Ricco done. Call me old fashioned but he only seems to have morals now he has been caught and knows now his chance in the peloton is much reduced. Pity he didn't think about the non-dopers during his previous life as a peloton doping cheat.

And you've known Millar how long exactly? So your first point applies equally to your comments on Millar.

You are coming across as being very pious, i.e. having never sinned yourself and being blemish free. I'm sure you are not.

To err is human.

Jez mon

Why shouldn't Millar be so publicly anti doping. How does anyone know that millar hasn't been working in the background quietly as well as writing articles such as these. Regardless of trying to break to break the law of silence, publicly announcing a load of riders who he thinks might be suspect would make him an extremely unpopular boy in the peloton.

Retrospect life bans would be unjust. Two year bans are already very difficult to come back from the fact that the tests haven't worked in the past has meant that they weren't deterrents, not the length of the ban

ricadus

Anyway, no Chambers at the Olympics either.

top_bhoy

andyp wrote:

And you've known Millar how long exactly? So your first point applies equally to your comments on Millar.

You are coming across as being very pious, i.e. having never sinned yourself and being blemish free. I'm sure you are not.

To err is human.

Millar is way far too judgemental towards Ricco, the irony of which, both guilty of the same offence.

Are you saying that Millars views on this topic are beyond reproach and criticism? The funny thing about all of this is that I don't actually think he is wrong, Ricco has put cycling in a bad light but, in my opinion, Millar is not the one to be taking the high moral ground over this in the way it has come over. I wasn't taking any position of self-righteousness on this issue, more trying to say that this 'Damascus style' reform of his character comes across as all a bit sanctamonious and nauseating to me. I just don't know how else to put it but it seems to have taken on a life of its own!!

PS For the record, I've screwed up plenty of times -- nae, hundreds of times.

jrduquemin

Top_Bhoy wrote:

nah.....and the tone of his website ain't cutting anyone any slack either. They may have had extenuating circumstances which he doesn't know about which led them to doping. :twisted:

In reading a large part of that article, it is his whole pious and overly aggressive attitude which is hard to take.

What possible extenuating circumstances can there be for riders to dope? They want to win perhaps? Sure, everyone wants to win, only the majority of them want to do it cleanly. Ricco got caught, good riddance to him I say...

SteveR_100Milers

Belv wrote:

I am bitterly disappointed because i do want to believe in these men. I want to believe that a human being can (legally) do the sort of things that Ricco did and i used to love watching Pantani do.

I'm afraid that the "reality" of cycling are your "boring" Evanses and struggling Cunegos and Valverdes as examples. It's very very rare that one persons ability (which you might argue could be very simply evaluated by watts per x sectional area and watts/Kg) is so much better than anothers. Just look at amateur TT results to get an idea of how close it all is, of course assuming that the majority of amatuers (in the UK anyway) are clean.....

Kléber

Millar has apologised and like many in cycling, turned the page on a bad past. Doping in the 90s and early part of this decade is something very different to today. What was acceptable - but illegal - behaviour in the past no longer tolerable.

If Ricco admits his wrongs, then I'd be delighted for him to apologise and come back with a firm commitment to the sport, to behaving properly. It's miles better than the weasly, slimy ways of, say Basso, who have trouble admitting to their name.

Moomaloid

All professional sportsmen who dope should be banned for life! Its the only way to combat this rot.. then u will see a decline in offenders.

cougie

Isnt that like the death penalty for murder ? That doesnt seem to deter people in the US ?

robmanic1

cougie wrote:

Isnt that like the death penalty for murder ? That doesnt seem to deter people in the US ?

People keep rattling on about stifffer penalties not being a deterant, the death penalty hardly equates to a lifetime ban from a sport in the same way as murder does not equate to winning bike races.

A lifetime ban would deter all but the most determined (dumbest) athletes , no question.

cougie

I'm all for giving people a second chance.

Clearly there are people out to deliberately cheat using EPO etc.
Also there are people out there who have received bans for using innocent every day products. People have been banned due to contamination of sports drinks/supplements.

I think a life ban due to that would be a bit too harsh.

Moomaloid

Why should we give them a second chance, thats saying ok you've got one chance so go on dope'em up to the eyeballs, then if you get caught you can come back after two years... NO, you will never ever begin to clear these people out until they are made aware that there is no return... why we haven't had this yet i do not know....

robmanic1

Fair point cougie, I just think they could all claim ignorance in their defence, but maybe a lifetime ban would make them think twice before blindly taking anything anyone told them would be good for them. There will be "collateral" damage, some innocent, well meaning athletes could suffer but I think the time has come to draw a line.

Harsh and probably not altogether fair, but I'm feeling a lot of resentment at the minute towards these greedy, selfish feckers who seem intent on destroying our sport in the name of personal gain (that may be classed as a rant).

Peakraider

skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:

Do you mean me?

no.

sportzchick

Moomaloid wrote:

Why should we give them a second chance, thats saying ok you've got one chance so go on dope'em up to the eyeballs, then if you get caught you can come back after two years... NO, you will never ever begin to clear these people out until they are made aware that there is no return... why we haven't had this yet i do not know....

Agreed 10000% on this one - at best a life ban and worst ban and jail time..... This is killing the sport!

ZERO TOLLERANCE Its the only way to stop these cheats once and for all

This is why I hate seeing Millar riding let alone commenting - he doesnt deserve that right

cougie

I'd say a better thing to do would be to get rid of anyone involved with doping from the teams. Look at the riders involved in doping who then get cushy jobs on the bike teams.
Caisse d'Espagne have one of the doped Festina riders in their support team.

Riders cant dope by themselves these days. They need knowledgable people round them to help the process. There should be no space for a dodgy masseur/ mechanic/manager in their teams. Kick out the old dirty guard.

meagain

This is killing the sport!

What brings you to that conclusion? Seem to be lots of spectators - and more TV coverage (UK anyway) than in the past. The premise that it is "sport" is in any case dubious. It's business - that's why 1. driven by doping and 2. it doesn't matter.