Carbon frames on roof racks

wishitwasallflat

There is a chart on the mont blanc site that says which models the s3 fits and you also have to adjust the metal straps and rack itself for the specific car. Its rock solid on mine and I would reccomend it if it fits - different league to those halfords jobs!

jmccabe

I can't find the chart on the .co.uk one; there's a link to http://montblanconline.co.uk/index.php? ... kecarriers, but that shows:

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wishitwasallflat

jmccabe wrote:

I can't find the chart on the .co.uk one; there's a link to http://montblanconline.co.uk/index.php? ... kecarriers, but that shows:

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Mmm sorry about that I got mine a few years back and can't remember exactly where the chart was. If you are interested contact Mont Blanc directly, again its a few years ago but they always responded quickly and were helpful when I emailed them.

jmccabe

No need to apologise; I'm sure that's where the chart is supposed to be, just Mont Blanc website being messed up!

super_prestige

I have had the same worries as most on here about transporting my bike. To the point where I nearly didn't take my new bike (S-Works Venge) to the south of France last year.
I looked at all the options, to start with clamplig the frame was a non starter, as in my experience they always mark the frame.
I really liked the idea of fork clamping and transporting the front wheel by another rack.
The problem appeared all the time, not suitable for carbon forks, and as has been said before they only clamp the same as the wheel.
The Thule XT is carbon fork compitible, it even show a Domga ish, frame in the advert.
I went for the Elite San Remo Tour which is states on the description Carbon Fork Compatible, my frame survived the 2000 mile round trip to the south of France, including an ascent and descent of the Tourmalet.

http://www.elite-it.com/en/products/gb/ ... -tour-lock

Matthewfalle

Hmmm - it's not the clamping forces I'd be worrying about it's the extremely well documented issues with carbon frames and the rain I'd be looking at- especially with motorway speeds driving rain into all those nooks and crannies it never normally gets into........

cougie

70 on the mway? I've done over 50 actually on the bike. Where are you worried about the water getting? Its really not an issue.

Matthewfalle

Well, tbh, 50 actually isn't that fast and you'll only have done it for maybe a minute or so.

90mph (which is what everyone drives at down the motorway) for miles and miles and miles on end is going to force water into everything (which is why you should generally have the back wheel pointing forward anyway so the headset doesn't get full of gunk).

But so long as you're cool with it, that's cool.

cougie

But which bits would the water get to? My bikes get hosed down. They get drenched whilst riding. Water gets everywhere. I don't see the risk really?

Matthewfalle

cougie wrote:

But which bits would the water get to? My bikes get hosed down. They get drenched whilst riding. Water gets everywhere. I don't see the risk really?

Water will get to the same bits whether you hose it down with a garden hose with minimal pressure or whether it gets the rain and road muck flung at it at 90mph - it's just that the 90mph rain will get relentlessly driven into the b/b, headset, cable entry and egress points with no chance for it to drain out - these are also the areas where the carbon won't be painted/lacquered over leading to all the issues we see time and again on here.

It'll also come at different angles - hosing you'll wash from above, on the roof will be from below. At 90mph. While being shaken around.


If you're fine with it on your bike then that's cool, seriously. But that's up to you.

StillGoing

You're serious aren't you. God help all those aircraft up there doing the speeds that they do in all weathers and temperatures with those exposed carbon parts.

fenix

So carbon WILL melt in the rain eh ? ;-)

Matthewfalle

philthy3 wrote:

You're serious aren't you. God help all those aircraft up there doing the speeds that they do in all weathers and temperatures with those exposed carbon parts.

different designs. An aero-plane isn't designed to get shot at where as most of the carbon things I work with are. Different designs. Aero-planes are designed to do all that flying stuff. A bicycle from a mass manufacturer who's churning out thousands of the things each week?

But as I say, so long as you're happy riding a frame with well documented issues - which you will taken to the limits which they aren't designed for - then that's cool. No dramas to me and my 6.3kg Ali framed job.

You don't see many manufacturers or teams transporting their bikes on roof tops really though do you? Apart from on stages where they may hit 60 mph (I know the riders do more down mountains but they aren't stuck in traffic) for a couple of minutes before being stripped down at the end of each week and rebuilt by pro mechanics.

Perhaps they may know something. Just a guess.

fenix

Isn't that because they have great big trucks to keep the bikes in all safe and sound ?

You'd not leave the team bikes out on a roof if you stopped at services. They'd be gone.

Matthewfalle

Fenix wrote:

Isn't that because they have great big trucks to keep the bikes in all safe and sound ?

You'd not leave the team bikes out on a roof if you stopped at services. They'd be gone.

yup - safe and sound from the elements. I.e. Rain. Because they are made of carbon.

Security is one reason, the other extremely well documented matter concerning carbon bicycles that cannot raise its head may we'll be another. Imagine the bad publicity/lost sales if (when?) it all goes wrong .............

Then again, it ain't my bike and face that would be hitting the road, but so long a small you are happy it's cool: we're not here to hold each other's hands.

StillGoing

That anybody still believes that carbon fibre bike frames get damaged by the rain is the surprising issue here. :shock:

Matthewfalle

Do the research do the math my friend. But so long as you guys are happy to ride something when empirical research points in another direction is completely up to you.

I'm good but I'm really no scientist - I just have a lot of spare time to browse, read, learn and always approach everything with an open mind. Which is why Ali is the way forward (literally).

Overall though, so long as you're happy and have full confidence that it's not going to go wrong although independent scientific research tells a story....

cougie

I hope someone has told sir ben ainslie not to get his carbon fibre boat wet.

smudgerii

Matthewfalle wrote:

Do the research do the math my friend. But so long as you guys are happy to ride something when empirical research points in another direction is completely up to you.

I'm good but I'm really no scientist - I just have a lot of spare time to browse, read, learn and always approach everything with an open mind. Which is why Ali is the way forward (literally).

Overall though, so long as you're happy and have full confidence that it's not going to go wrong although independent scientific research tells a story....

Such utter bollocks in this and your other posts on the subject.

With some Ducati''s doing 200+mph on a CF frame you think there is a problem?

Matthewfalle

Smudgerii wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Do the research do the math my friend. But so long as you guys are happy to ride something when empirical research points in another direction is completely up to you.

I'm good but I'm really no scientist - I just have a lot of spare time to browse, read, learn and always approach everything with an open mind. Which is why Ali is the way forward (literally).

Overall though, so long as you're happy and have full confidence that it's not going to go wrong although independent scientific research tells a story....

Such utter **** in this and your other posts on the subject.

With some Ducati''s doing 200+mph on a CF frame you think there is a problem?

Designed for different purpose - see posts passim.

And you'll find that they junked the cf frame after 1 season as it was rubbish (Stoner actually looked at moving out of Ducati as it was so trash and he is fairly handy on a motorbike).

No one is yet to ride the Superleggera to prove any different.

Sorry.

smudgerii

Matthewfalle wrote:

Smudgerii wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Do the research do the math my friend. But so long as you guys are happy to ride something when empirical research points in another direction is completely up to you.

I'm good but I'm really no scientist - I just have a lot of spare time to browse, read, learn and always approach everything with an open mind. Which is why Ali is the way forward (literally).

Overall though, so long as you're happy and have full confidence that it's not going to go wrong although independent scientific research tells a story....

Such utter **** in this and your other posts on the subject.

With some Ducati''s doing 200+mph on a CF frame you think there is a problem?

Designed for different purpose - see posts passim.

And you'll find that they junked the cf frame after 1 season as it was rubbish (Stoner actually looked at moving out of Ducati as it was so trash and he is fairly handy on a motorbike).

No one is yet to ride the Superleggera to prove any different.

Sorry.

It wasn't the rain that made it shite..... or a hosepipe!

Stoner is a bit better than "handy", but I don't need you to tell me that :roll:

StillGoing

Matthewfalle wrote:

Smudgerii wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Do the research do the math my friend. But so long as you guys are happy to ride something when empirical research points in another direction is completely up to you.

I'm good but I'm really no scientist - I just have a lot of spare time to browse, read, learn and always approach everything with an open mind. Which is why Ali is the way forward (literally).

Overall though, so long as you're happy and have full confidence that it's not going to go wrong although independent scientific research tells a story....

Such utter **** in this and your other posts on the subject.

With some Ducati''s doing 200+mph on a CF frame you think there is a problem?

Designed for different purpose - see posts passim.

And you'll find that they junked the cf frame after 1 season as it was rubbish (Stoner actually looked at moving out of Ducati as it was so trash and he is fairly handy on a motorbike).

No one is yet to ride the Superleggera to prove any different.

Sorry.

Ducati, HRC and Yamaha are still using carbon fibre swingarms, carbon fibre disc brakes etc etc. Marquez has even used his carbon fibre disc brakes in the rain at some races. Stoner quit Ducati because they wouldn't listen to his feedback and had nothing to do with them using carbon fibre structural parts and everything to do with the handling characteristics of the design. That he went to HRC and won the title again made Ducati sit up and take notice. Now Stoner is back at Ducati in an advisory/tester/ambassadorial role says it all.

Matthewfalle

Don't see many at the TT/NW200/Ulster though do we, which should be more of a comparison than Moto GP. (Stoners, Rossis or c/f frames to think of it).

But I'm not here to go into a slanging match, just quoting empirical proven scientific fact that's been around for ages and proven under independent laboratory conditions.

Sorry if you want a slanging match, but I'm just not that sort of boy.

But if it doesn't happen, and the manufacturers don't expect it to happen, why the so easy to change frames warranties? It's not like they sort of seem c/f frames as loss leaders expendable bits is it?

StillGoing

It's not a slanging match at all. You're trying to install an opinion that carbon fibre frames are susceptible to wear/damage if exposed to the elements. The examples given are of actual use of carbon fibre under extreme tolerances in all weathers. A MGP handles worse than any production bike being used at any of the road races or national short circuit races and is a more severe test of the components hence prototype and where all development is fed down from. National licence holders and teams could not even dream of affording to lease a prototype MGP bike from HRC etc (provided HRC etc were prepared to entertain such an idea in the first place) for a limited series such as the IoM, NW200 etc. The chances of binning it in such races is high and the financial penalties for returning a bike in bits would be astronomical for a hand to mouth financed team/rider. In 2013 to lease a Yzr M1 from Yamaha cost almost £700,000 for the season. To buy a production version of the Honda RC211V in the same year was over £850,000. You would then need to add on the necessary technical support from the manufacturer, spare engines and parts. There is also the issue of eligibility for the class if you could afford it. When Honda released the prototype 500 v twin, its use in domestic championships was sparse due to costs.

Matthewfalle

I'm not trying to install any opinion, we're just discussing and people seem to be taking umbrage with proven facts and shouting at me for no reason - perhaps trying to get a reaction? Well this won't happen.

Padgetts don't seem to have a problem using 250/500 GP bikes at the roads/Macau, and if my memory serves me right Schwartz and Rodriguez didn't do too badly on their Lucky Strikes at Macau either.

Perhaps it's just because people don't like alternative facts put to them? I don't know, I'm just a simple bloke living a simple life....

jmccabe

Matthewfalle wrote:

But I'm not here to go into a slanging match, just quoting empirical proven scientific fact that's been around for ages and proven under independent laboratory conditions.

The issue here though, IMO, is that you haven't quoted anything other than what appears to be hearsay.

If you can provide references to this proof then all of us can go off and read it then see if it makes sense, or discuss flaws in the testing or the arguments put forward in those results, or try to see if there's any more up to date evidence that either supports or refutes the stuff "that's been around for ages".

At the moment I don't see how arguing about something totally unrelated is of any benefit to anyone here.

Thanks
John

StillGoing

The Macau is a one off race designed to highlight the Japanese manufacturers talents. Of late it has been mainly 4T Homologated production bikes used in WSB or domestic/national series races that are used in the race. 2T 500s have sadly been gone for a while now as I'm sure you know. The 250/500 class as a prototype series disappeared long ago. Any 2T 250s or even 500s floating around will be old machines having been replaced by the SS600 class of 4T machines.

But, we're digressing from your original point. You believe carbon fibre is susceptible to the elements. The rest of us don't.

fat daddy

I am still trying to figure out "susceptible in what way" ... ok so water gets intot eh ingress boints and headsets just like on Ti or alu bikes .... but then what ??

I have cars with carbon parts on them, a 2007 carbon bike, carbon components on the MTBs .... none of them have degraded due to use in adverse weather, hell my carbon undertray on the car isn't even lacquered, its bare carbon ?

meanredspider

The only time I've heard of CF being affected by moisture is my brother left his OCLV MTB stored, unused, for several years outside under a porch in Vancouver - so pretty much an extreme moisture and temperature range and he had issues with the carbon. Trek replaced the frame. But this isn't to be confused with a bit of water getting into the frame from time-to-time. CF is used in loads of applications these days - many of them automotive - part of the boot lid of my Merc is made from it, propshafts are made from it, whole monocoque chassis (BMW i3, Alfa 4C, at the low end) are made from it. I can even buy panels for my 1960s Alfa race car in CF. That's before we talk about hockey sticks, fishing rods etc.

Personally I'd be every bit as much worried about aluminium (especially in a light frame) as I would CF if not far more so. Even with my brother's frame, the issue was that it went weak and more flexible. Aluminium will corrode and powder and fail catastrophically.

Monty Dog

Lots of 'quack' material science going on here - we'd better tell the likes of Airbus and Boeing to stop what they're doing 'cos their planes can't be used in the wet ;-) There's more risk from the hydrocarbons in grease reacting with the resin matrix than from water.
The reason roofrack manufacturers exclude carbon forks is simply a historic precedent and that they categorically cannot state they're OK without testing every single fork, so from a product liability POV they make an exclusion. Even all-carbon forks have solid drop-outs. Same with clamps on carbon downtubes as you can't account for ham-fisted users.
I managed to get my roofrack-mounted titanium fatbike with carbon wheels under a steel carpark restriction with only minor damage to the bike - the bike twisted onto it's side and it simply broke the roofrail off - not surprisingly I'm not allowed to put my bikes on a roof anymore!