Gears for the Tour de France

Casper10100

Ok - It's my first post so be gentle.

I've tried my best to get my head around gearing but I'm still struggling so would appreciate help/advice.

I'm doing a charity ride of the full 1994 Tour de France route next year - including Alpe d'huez, Ventoux etc carrying 2 small panniers a la Tim Moore. I'm training now and have another 8 months to get in shape. I was hoping to wait to choose a bike at a later date but I need to get it now - before I am absolutely sure what gearing I need.!!! So I need advice/opinion..... ths idea is to try and match the daily distances as best as possible onlys spliting them where absolutely necessary.

I've been trying to find a £500-600 bike for the trip. I thought I'd chosen the Giant SCR 2, a triple (30/40/52 x 12-25 which I could swap to a 12-27 HG 30?) but that was the 07 model the 08 is now a (30/39/50). But I don't feel this is going to give me a high enough gear for the flat/descents whilst allowing me to avoid walking up the cols. I currently push a 53x13 on my commute and am in that most of the time. I could change the cassette to an 11-34 (lx). Is that the best option? Or should I be looking at a totally different bike/set up....? Perhaps worrying too much about the flat not the hills although I plan to be in the best shape I can be by next year

I'm going for a triple to get the range but I realise there is a certain amount of overlap. Are there any options in a double that would give me a similar range?

Any other suggestions to help?
Thanks

GeorgeShaw

A triple is a good idea. You'll NEED low gears. You won't need high gears.

meagain

What GS said I reckon. 50x12 is about 110": unless you REALLY want to do over 50mph downhill when the roads are NOT closed I'd have thought that that would suffice!

John.T

You will be fine with the 50/39/30 and 12/27 set-up. What you do need to do is stop using your 53/13 so much and start using lower gears. You need to be riding with a cadence of 80 to 90 rpm most of the time. This is much less tiring over long distances and you will be less likely to get injuries especialy to your knees. The sort of ride you are planning you need to save as much energy as possible so you should be free wheeling on all the descents. On the flat you can comfortably average 15mph on 50/19 or 39/14 or 15.
Check out Sheldon Browns gear calculator here so you can see which combinations give similar ratios. If you have not used tables before I would recomend using the 'Gear inches' setting. These give the equivelent size of Penny farthing wheel that would travel the same distance for one pedal revolution. This means it is easy to compare different chain ring and cog combinations.
http://sheldonbrown.com/gearing/index.html

richa

53/13 is 107.1 inches. A 50-39-30 with a 12-27 is a great choice as a 50/12 gives you 109.5 inches which is a higher top gear than you currently have.

Casper10100

Thanks for your help.
I'm guessing I'll just stick with the standard set up but swap the 12-25 for 12-27 and see how that goes. I can always bite the bullet and swap the rear to 11-32/34 at a later date. I've tried the Sheldon Brown site before but it feels too much like physics homework... but if a 50-12 (two small panniers) is higher than a 53-13 (one big commuting pannier) I should be ok. BTW ...What is the equivilent of a 50-11?

Thanks again

meagain

What is the equivilent of a 50-11?

Approx 120". "Approx" because I don't know tyre size and crank length and can't be bothered using Sheldon's precise calcs: just take F teeth / rear teeth x 27. Usually near enough except for tech stuff like track riding and gives you relative and consistent values.

andy_wrx

Casper10100 wrote:

I currently push a 53x13 on my commute and am in that most of the time.

Are you really saying that you're in the biggest ring at the front (the 53) and the smallest ring at the back (the 13) for most of your commute ?
You don't change up and down at all with the gears at the back ?

If so, unless your commute is downhill all the way, both ways, you should be fit enough !

What sort of speed do you do your commute at : 25-30 mph ?

gkerr4

do you really mean the 'full' 1994 tour de france route?

or a famous stage of the 1994 route finishing on alpe d'huez?

If it is the former do you know what you are getting yourself into here?

(I don't mean to be disrespectful, but you don't know much about gearing and you say you "have 8 months to train for it" which sounds like you are not a regular cyclist)

redddraggon

Casper10100 wrote:

I currently push a 53x13 on my commute and am in that most of the time.

53x13 (assuming 23c tyres and 60rpm cadence) is 19mph, that's a not a bad speed - but I'd suggest dropping down a couple of gears and try pedalling a bit faster - it'll mean you'll be able to go even faster in 53x13. (Assuming you are a masher and not already a spinner)

meagain wrote:

Approx 120". "Approx" because I don't know tyre size and crank length and can't be bothered using Sheldon's precise calcs:

Genuine Question: How does crank length affect the gear inches?

Bronzie

If you are carrying panniers I'd go with silly low gears - def triple and the biggest cassette you can fit on the rear (preferably an MTB cassette) - the day after day nature of your event will leave you with very heavy legs and you will f*ck your knees up if you try grinding up a col with weight on the bike.

Nuggs

gkerr4 wrote:

do you really mean the 'full' 1994 tour de france route?

or a famous stage of the 1994 route finishing on alpe d'huez?

If it's the former, I think I'd opt for one of these:

andy_wrx

There's a remarkable number of fat German motorbikers on off-road enduro style machines going up and down the cols.

Bronzie

gkerr4 wrote:

do you really mean the 'full' 1994 tour de france route?

or a famous stage of the 1994 route finishing on alpe d'huez?

That's be some monster stage that took in Ventoux and Alpe D'Huez in one hit - they are about 200 miles apart!

meagain

Genuine Question: How does crank length affect the gear inches?

And GOOD question! Doesn't seem to from Sheldon's calculator. Never thought about it before but I assume that it DOES effect the cadence calcs that are also within the the programme. And maybe other gearing measuring methods?

ride_whenever

Isn't gear inches a measure of how far you go per revolution, so crank length is irrelevant, only chainring:cassette ratio and wheel size.

de_sisti

I currently push a 53x13 on my commute and am in that most of the time.


I've seen people commuting to work etc in very high gears. They're going slow enough
for you to walk faster than them. Joking aside, I've seen many commuters riding
in such high gear ratios but riding very slowly indeed. I suspect a lot of the aforementioned
are quite inexperienced with bikes and are quite happy with the one gear, as long as the
wheels are turning.

de_sisti

Quote "I currently push a 53x13 on my commute and am in that most of the time."

I've seen people commuting to work etc in very high gears. They're going slow enough
for you to walk faster than them. Joking aside, I've seen many commuters riding
in such high gear ratios but riding very slowly indeed. I suspect a lot of the aforementioned
are quite inexperienced with bikes and are quite happy with the one gear, as long as the
wheels are turning.

richa

Crank length has no effect on gear inces as it is purely the distance travelled for one pedal revolution. It takes no account of the pressure required to make that revolution.

Sheldon prefers "gain ratio" which takes crank length in to account.

richa

The 1994 Tour de France - Total race distance was 3978 km over 21 stages (averaging 38.4 km/h).

At an average pace of 25kph you will be looking 21 days taking, on average, 7.5 hrs/day. That's going to take its toll.

How much training are you intending on doing?

Casper10100

Thanks again to all.

It is the whole route. Some days I think it will be ok, other days it scares the hell out of me. I've done a fair bit of fully loaded touring , end to end etc so I think I've become a bit of a grinder rather than a spinner which might be why the 53-13 feels ok. But then perhaps I need to protect my knees a bit more. Over winter a lot of time on a turbo trainer should help to change my riding style find out the gears I really need.

BTW going to get the giant with a 12-27 rear and if I struggle swap the rear for 11-34 next spring which should give me the best of both worlds.... unless anyone has any other suggestions/can see any probs with that?

bahzob

Did similar to you 2006 when rode full TDF route for that year.

Assuming you are unsupported/staying in hotels, not camping, if you pack smartly all the luggage you need should fit into a large saddlebag like this
http://www.carradice.co.uk/saddlebags/nelson-saddlebag.shtml plus a handlebar bag.

This will mean you travel light, which means you can travel fast if you want/need to. (and you probably will, a lot of the stages have long flat sections).

In this case I would definitely recommend a triple. I used Ultegra (+ FSA Chainring) 53/39/30 x 12-27 rear. This got me up every hill and was fast on the flat. (I use a 11-23 when not touring and dont think you need an 11 high gear for your trip.)

Re bike: I tried an alu bike alongside a carbon one and went for the latter (a Roubaix which since done 10s of thousands of k is still my main bike for races/sportives). If not already done so I would definitely try carbon alternative to the scr. On a long ride like the one you are planning comfort is key and carbon is more comfortable than alu.

PMed you, happy to offer any other advice on your trip if interested.

ride_whenever

One thing to watch for, if you put a 11-34 on you might want a matching chain to prevent slippage, I'd recommend really hard chainrings as they'll not really wear with the chain too much. The other thing to watch out for is that your mech has enough capacity (can remember the tech term) to deal with that range of gears.

Casper10100

Split daily commute into half riding/half running, 3 turbo sessions a week, long ride at weekend. I realise I won't be able to do all the route in the same number of days, so plan for more rest days and to split some of the immense stages to give me a fighting chance of a) finishing b) not walking.

Bahzob,
Would love to pick your brain. Not near email at mo but will be in touch. What you used is ideally what I want i.e 53-12 but all I can get on the Giant is 50-12 which is my problem. Anyway of achieving this on a budget? The 11-34 is the only budgetish solution I can find..

richa

Can't believe you are worrying about not having a large enough gear.

At a cadence of 90 a 50/12 gives you a speed of 29.3mph.
(For a 53/12 it would be 31.1mph).

How fast are you expecting to be doing this 2500 miles?

bahzob

Casper10100 wrote:

What you used is ideally what I want i.e 53-12 but all I can get on the Giant is 50-12 which is my problem. Anyway of achieving this on a budget? The 11-34 is the only budgetish solution I can find..

What I did was decide what gearing I wanted first. Then when I bought the bike asked the LBS where I got to fit it. They were happy to oblige. Also happy to let me try out various bikes before choosing the one I went with.

gkerr4

Bronzie wrote:

gkerr4 wrote:

do you really mean the 'full' 1994 tour de france route?

or a famous stage of the 1994 route finishing on alpe d'huez?

That's be some monster stage that took in Ventoux and Alpe D'Huez in one hit - they are about 200 miles apart!

true true - but surely no one in their right mind would train for a 'full TdF route in 8 months - carrying luggage too?

EDIT _ forget this - it's been answered!!

Hats of to you for taking it on though - and very very best of luck to get around this!

Please do keep us updated on your training and plans - very interesting!

Graham

BeaconRuth

Casper10100 wrote:

Over winter a lot of time on a turbo trainer should help to change my riding style find out the gears I really need.

Time on a turbo will help you get fit but is unlikely to help you to develop a fluid, relaxed and high cadence which is what you need to do. If 53x13 feels OK to you on your commute then you're not just a 'bit of a grinder'. That's an understatement like saying Mark Cavendish is 'quite a good sprinter'.

I'm with RichA - why are you worrying about having a big enough gear? Are you afraid you won't be able to wind you speed up to >35mph on the descents?! I would think that is the last of your worries given what you're planning.

Do you ride with experienced riders at all? Good cycling is an art and the best way to learn the art is to ride amongst good riders and watch and learn. Pedal at the speed they pedal, change gears when they change, get out of the saddle when they do. The only occasion that justifies using a 53x13 is downhill with the wind behind you, or racing at well over 25mph.

Ruth

John.T

Crank length does not affect cadence either but it does affect how fast your feet have to move. The only reason that it is on Sheldons table is that it affects the 'Gain Ratios' calculation which seems to be based on how far your feet travel and wheel diameter. It is not relevent for gear ratios on the same bike.

Casper. You are going to be on a very steep learning curve here, both in fitness terms and what you are taking on. 100+ miles a day for 3 weeks is going to be tough even for an experienced cyclist. Also you say you have 8 months so I asume you are starting in April. You may find that some of the cols are still closed by snow at that time. It will certainly be very cold at the tops. I have no wish to put you off but having done rides like the Raid Pyrenean which is only just over 400 miles in 4.5 days carrying no kit I have some idea of what is involved. I wish you all the best in your ride.

bahzob

Re training to do this sort of ride:

When I did similar I decided to do it in October 2005. "Training" prior to that was on an exercise bike mainly (as an indolent 47 year old) to lose 2 1/2 stones I carried on with exercise bike + did some MTB during winter and only started road bike rides Feb 2006, 3 months prior to doing the trip.

Nonetheless I succeeded in doing the ride (over 5000km in total as need to ride the bits where the tour takes the bus/train/plane). Mountains turned out not to be too much of a problem and format of tour (where early stages are mainly flat: except if in Luxembourg or bits of Belgium!) means by the time you hit them you will be sorted.

During that time I did not realise forums like this existed to offer advice and with hindsight think that was a good thing. Tendency seems to be to utter lots of warnings/reasons why things cannot be done. In reality the biggest barrier to doing this sort of challenge (or many others) is in the mind rather than the body and the best advice I would offer is, in the words of Nike, "Just do it".

RrogerD

Hi,

I know this is a VERY old thread but, did the OP complete the TdeF route tour as suggested? How did you get on with the gearing ratios and the hills / mountains?

I was also given the Tim Moore book over Xmas (also my 50th birthday) and has inspired me to do the same, for charity.

I actually want to do the same yr 2000 route but am struggling to find a detailed description of the routes and roads for each stage. It was before gpx files of course. Does anyone know where I can get hold of this?

Great stuff!