Comparing carbon frames (usual £1k suspects)

Scrumple

I have done lots of research here on £1000 bikes, just like every other cycle to work tax break user.
You must be so bored of our questions repeating themselves! I have read all the other posts before asking this, so hopefully this is a new question!

I have seen many posts full of advice about the best bikes, with 3 standing out:
Focus Cayo
Planet X
Ribble Nero Corsa

All the posts end up with owners championing their bikes, and if any real comparison is done it often comes down to "get the PX cos it has Dura Ace", or "bike x has crap wheels"...
IGNORING all the bits and bobs, I'd buy a bike for the FRAME. I have seen little debate over the merits of each bike's frame, with the only substance being about looks and cosmetics.

QUESTION: how do the 3 bikes' frames stack up in terms of quality, durability, and value?? (for example, I'd worry the PX wasn't great, as the cash seems to go elswhere).
Are any clever folk out there who can comment on the best frame, and why (preferably those who have seen all the bikes, and who are talking facts not speculation).

No mention of the rest of the stuff, please, FRAMES only!

Doobz

Not sure if this is any help but the "Ribble" isn't really a ribble frame if that makes sense? Its produced by dedacciai who are top of the league in carbon manufacture.

The frame itself is used by a good few companies who sell the bike for 2x what ribble sells it for. Kona Zing Deluxe retails for £1,600 with 105 groupset and a very basic paint job.

Scrumple

Thanks...
I know as much about the frames as I can from searching, but still have no idea how they compare against each other. I am not concerned about where they come from, more how good are they relative to each other.

redddraggon

Scrumple wrote:

Thanks...
I know as much about the frames as I can from searching, but still have no idea how they compare against each other. I am not concerned about where they come from, more how good are they relative to each other.

There's not going to be that many people who can really answer that question. To really "know" a frame you need to do more than have a quick test ride on the bike.

I can't imagine there's many (if at all) that's owned all of those bikes.

Personally I reckon there's little really to seperate the three frames, the different feel of each frame will be down to their geometry - so I reckon you need to look at the geometry tables and see which suits you most.

Doobz

I am pretty sure there will be NO ONE on here who has tested all 3. I could be wrong though..

good luck

Scrumple

I'm sure someone here has seen all three, or who has club mates who have given honest experiences about each? I am not expecting an owner to have had all of them, more a member who has enough experience, or friends with experience, to comment. Even just a visual appraisal by a long time biker who has encountered all 3 would be more use than nothing. You don't have to ride a bike to say one frame looks poor quality...
I'm just not after owners to shout loudly having never even seen the others...

Even if it is just something like one particualr frame seems to last best, or have least issues amongst your peer group / club.

Anything helps (I asked for those with experience just to try and deflect posters who say one is better as they have it in their garage, but have never heard of the others!).

I'm not greedy, and don't expect miracles, but I value any thoughts!

Thanks for the help so far...

redddraggon

If you want my genuine opinion (I've got a Nero Corsa btw), I'll give it.

If I was looking at bikes at around the £1000 mark, with the priority being a top quality frame, I wouldn't go for any of the options you're looking at. I'd probably go for something like a Cannondale Caad9 with whatever componentry that floats your boat.

Unless you are dead set on a carbon frame, I wouldn't discount an alloy frame from the likes of Cannondale - Carbon fibre is not the wonder material that the price/marketers would have you believe.

biondino

The Cayo frame is the same one found on the other, higher level Cayo models, up to the Pro at £1,800, so it's got to be good enough for people to buy at that price point. Also, I own one, and it is SO MUCH NICER than any aluminium frame I've ridden!

uksteve7

Interested why you would go for alloy... You didn't say why, as the proud owner of a Ribble, you'd not recommend me getting one?!

doyler78

You sure that you can get all 3 frames through your scheme. Best to know what is available to you before you start considering your options. Are you with a facilitator or is the scheme being run internally?

PX may not also be available if you have £1000 ceiling with no topups. PX was available at £999 however that is no longer the case with being somewhere around £1050. I have no idea about Ribble and whether they can be sourced by any facilitators or not. Focus bikes are only available from Wiggle and you cannot get these from any facilitator on cycle to work so that's why I asked about whether you have a facilitator or not. May not be as clear cut as you perhaps think. Then again you may have an enlightened employer who acts with interests of the employee as a priority and completely opens up the scheme by running it internally themselves and allowing full choice of suppliers.

sproggski

How come these debates end up as a polarised Focus/Cube vs Spesh/Trek squabble? I wanted something slightly less obvious and went for a Cannondale Synapse.

I'm no expert but the rear stays seem excellent at absorbing road buzz and it seems stiff out of the saddle. It also has a lifetime frame n fork warranty and I got a deal with a 105 groupset for not much more than 1k.

Have I missed a major disadvantage of this bike which makes it ignored or unpopular?

redddraggon

uksteve7 wrote:

Interested why you would go for alloy... You didn't say why, as the proud owner of a Ribble, you'd not recommend me getting one?!

Why would I go for alloy? I just don't believe there's much between alloy and CFRP at <£1000 for a full bike. If I was spending >£1000 on frame it would be CFRP though as then they are clear winners.

My Nero Corsa isn't a Ribble, it's an undecaled one with my own components thrown on, at the time the frame was a bargain at £450, there wasn't many other options. There's nothing at all wrong with the frame, it's stiff and comfortable (headtube is too long on mine though - I guess I got a frame size too large).

doyler78

sproggski wrote:

How come these debates end up as a polarised Focus/Cube vs Spesh/Trek squabble? I wanted something slightly less obvious and went for a Cannondale Synapse.

I'm no expert but the rear stays seem excellent at absorbing road buzz and it seems stiff out of the saddle. It also has a lifetime frame n fork warranty and I got a deal with a 105 groupset for not much more than 1k.

Have I missed a major disadvantage of this bike which makes it ignored or unpopular?

It has a lot to do with Focus winning plaudits every year from a whole range of magazines for its bikes and therefore anything which tries to do the same get lumped in with it. Anything with a lower spec on the components no matter how good the frame is doesn't get a look in.

giant_man

You're going to have to have a ride on each one which I guess will be hard to do, but unless you test at least one or two of them, you ain't gonna know.

They may all be carbon but they are going to feel different from each other, that is for sure. Carbon is a great material for bike tubing and isn't as delicate as some people like to believe, I've been riding carbon bikes for the last 5 years and it makes for a great ride, but like everything else, you get what you pay for.

There is a reason why you can buy a carbon frame for 3 or 4 grand, you know?

buzz_ig

sproggski wrote:

How come these debates end up as a polarised Focus/Cube vs Spesh/Trek squabble? I wanted something slightly less obvious and went for a Cannondale Synapse.

I'm no expert but the rear stays seem excellent at absorbing road buzz and it seems stiff out of the saddle. It also has a lifetime frame n fork warranty and I got a deal with a 105 groupset for not much more than 1k.

Have I missed a major disadvantage of this bike which makes it ignored or unpopular?

I test rode a Synapse before I bought the Cayo. It is a very nice bike, very light, comfortable, and should be good for long rides. Maybe not as racy as the Cayo, and as I want to do the odd triathlon, probably not the best bike for me. But at around £1K it offers the same kind of value as the online only brands. However unlike you, the shop I went to would not offer me a deal, which meant it was over £200 more expensive. Given the "take it or leave it" attitude of the bike shop, I decided to leave it, and have no regrets.

Wobbly_wheel

Cayo for the win! I have one too.

Scrumple

Well....

Let's make it more simple for my last question. If we can't get anyone who can compare all three as a user, what about a quick comment on how the three frames differ by geometry????

As a newbie, the figures on a page mean little to me, and we have already agreed that it is pretty impossible to road test them all.

Forgetting my original question, how do you experienced riders see the frames compare by size and riding position? I'm sure you can make a sensible comment about this from looking at the frame's build? The websites all have the measurements...
Ribble Nero Corsa
Focus Cayo
Planet X SL Carbon

Assuming they are all on par otherwise for £1000, will I see a difference in set up and ride type? Are any of them markedly different? Compact geometry, sporty frame... all gubbins to me!?! Plain English, please

Answer that, and I'll make my mind up at last! Cheers for all the help everyone!

Scrumple

bump... for my question above!

meagain

Not as easy as one might expect! I can't get the Nero "measurements" up large enough to read and the Cayo shows the dimensions but not on the same page as the diagram!

In any case, I may have missed it in a skim, but not sure in what size you are interested.

IMO (and an over-simplification), longer the wheelbase and longer the chainstays and the greater the front-centre distance), the more "forgiving" (meaningless description really!) the ride (everything else being equal, which it never is). The lengthier the head tube c.f. the overall frame size, the more upright the riding position (useful to know how you wish the saddle height to be relative to the bars - head-down and going for it or seeing where you are heading!).

doyler78

Planet X have now increased the range of component choices you can make and these now include Shimano 105 which are priced lower than the previous options which means that you can now get a Planet X SL Carbon bike for under £1000.

Scrumple

Can someone just answer my question about how the three frames compare to ride, by geometry?
Any major differences?

That is all I want to know.

meagain

IF "vital statistics" unknown then with respect I don't see HOW anyone can unless they happen to have ridden all three and each in your size. It really isn't an exact science.

redddraggon

You won't go wrong with any of the bikes.

Just choose the one that YOU think looks the best.

gkerr4

Scrumple wrote:

Can someone just answer my question about how the three frames compare to ride, by geometry?
Any major differences?

That is all I want to know.[/quoteI

IMO - the cayo is a very racy riding position (geometry) - it has the shortest head tube of the three and would put me off purely for that reason (i'm not a mega-flexible racer)

The planetx is a mega compact looking frame but actually has a higher front end than the cayo.

Size-for-size the ribble has the highest front end.

If it was me - I'd go for the ribble 1st then the planetX (which is also a great looking frame in the flesh)

BattoowooGreekgreek

gkerr4 wrote:

IMO - the cayo is a very racy riding position (geometry) - it has the shortest head tube of the three and would put me off purely for that reason (i'm not a mega-flexible racer)

On the face of it out of the 3 I'd agree I think that's fair comment , but this is where a fitting would help really. I have a 56cm Cayo 08 and because size wise ( 5'10") I am at the bottom of the range for a large frame, so by flipping the stem its actually a relaxed geometry for me. But I have to say this is completely by luck and not design, if I'd gone the for the smaller frame it may well have been more difficult to setup a relaxed riding position.

Love the Cayo btw, but I can't compare to any of the others having not seen them in the flesh nevermind ridden one .

gkerr4

thats a fair point - if you can move up a framesize then yes - the ride and fit changes dramatically.

I like a frame which is around the 550mm size on effective top tube measurement - My roubaix and Langster are both 548mm - with roughly a 100mm stem (although I am thinking of getting a 110 or 120mm to try on the roubaix

So for me the cayo I would probably go for the size54(M) with a 110m stem - this has a 135mm headtube which is pretty short. But If I could fit the 56 with an 80mm stem then this would give me a 150mm head tube.

as a size-for-size frame comparison though - my size54 (M) S-Works Roubaix has a 160mm headtube - far more upright. perhaps not as racy - but damned comfortable!

passout

My mate has a cayo and says it's a stiff/firm ride. Very good but not actually all that comfortable over a decent distance. I've heard the Ribble NCorsa is more of an all rounder and would be better for longer distance stuff. The focus and the next carbon ribble up (forget name) are probably better for racing.

I'm about to buy a Ribble Nero Corsa Ultegra at £999.95 because I want a bike that can race if need be but is comfortable for all day riding (which is what I do most). I was put off PX because the have longer top tubes and shorter stems which I reckon will make it harder to control and possibly less comfortable over a distance. That's more of an expert/pro set up I'd say.

For me it was between Cayo & Nero Corsa and the Ribble won as the best all rounder. Plus I live locally to Ribble.

redddraggon

passout wrote:

next carbon ribble up (forget name)

The Scuro.....I think they look better than the Nero Corsa.