Cavendish

campagchris

Its a british thing knock the winners and cheer for the likes of Henman,Bruno,and eddie the eagle :shock:
I couldn't care less about his personality just keep winning Cav

pottssteve

I agree, campagchris,
Nobody watching Eddie the Idiot Edwards would want to take up s jumping. However, watching someone British win something might get a few more people on bikes...

DavidBelcher

campagchris wrote:

I couldn't care less about his personality just keep winning Cav

Agreed. But I hope he doesn't burn himself out come the Olympics (mind you, Boardman reckoned that in '96, though he had a tough Tour and finished the full 3 weeks of it, he rode himself into the form of his life for the subsequent Olympics, Worlds, etc. that year).

David

andy_wrx

Cavendish, to me, actually comes over as quite a young, fairly innocent guy who's still a bit star-struck with being in the big-time, be it the Olympic team or the pro peloton.
He's quite touched by all the bright lights and celebrity, and I think it's quite charming in an old-fashioned way.

But in his racing, he has self-confidence, he knows he's the best in the world - but that in itself doesn't make him arrogant.
Self-confident yes, and cock-sure perhaps - but not arrogant. [edit : I said c0ck-sure, this forusm sanitises it to fool-sure ]
'Cocky' and 'arrogant' aren't the same thing at all.

Having that self-confidence must be necessary for a sprinter - you're dicing at silly speeds one-on-one with other guys, you're making space for yourself and closing gaps on your rivals (ignoring any illegal barging or head-butting stuff).

If you don't think you're better than they are, if you're unsure and hesitate, they'll beat you. But if you can persuade them to think you're better than them, they'll let you beat them.

I remember a quote from another rider (Backsted I think ?) who said that he had his brake levers on the bars where he couldn't reach them in out-of-saddle sprinting position on the drops.
He said if you went into a sprint side-by-side with some other guy and were both going to crash unless one of you braked, if you could reach the brakes you'd brake - and you'd lose the sprint.
If you couldn't brake, he'd have to brake and you'd win.
If neither of you braked and you both crashed, next time you came up against that rider he'd remember and it would be him who braked and you'd win.

Cavendish is doing phenomenally, has burst into the pro peloton and is winning big stages in big races, not by fluke but through talent, preparedness, etc.
He's a rare British sporting success story and we really should make more of it.

But where he needs to improve is in some of the interviews he gives, where he does come over as sulky and bad-mannered.
It's certainly not 'more important than winning', but knowing how to give a positive interview when things haven't gone right is a necessaity in this global media age.

Look at some of the young rookie drivers in F1, where they've just stuffed the car into the tyrewall at high speed, had a highspeed shaking-up smash, broken the car very expensively, ruined their race, gone in a split-second from being 'in the zone' to being somewhere else entirely.
And some prat will stick a micophone under their noses and ask an asinine question. These are young rookie drivers just in the bigtime like Cav, but they remember they represent big F1 teams with $million budgets and bigtime global sponsors, remember that whatever they say will be broadcast and repeated all round the world and so they don't sulkily express their dissatifaction with their team, sponsor or cars.
All the F1 teams have publicity officers who will school the drivers in this, and these drivers have come up through F3 and so on and done interviewing, sponsor presentations, etc for years.

I bet the same is true of British Cycling and Team High Road. Cav needs this as well before he's a fully-rounded global media-age sportsman - as well as the ability to win.

bipedal

seems like a nice kid to me... nowt wrong with a bit of bravado if you're good

flattythehurdler

LangerDan wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

treize vents wrote:

Any recorded evidence of his bad behaviour?

You don't get much lower than this

Completely OT but the soundman in the back of that photo looks like he's on the vinegar stroke!

Now that's about as far OT as I have ever seen. Hope he vinegared on mcquaid.

RichN95.

andy_wrx wrote:

Look at some of the young rookie drivers in F1, where they've just stuffed the car into the tyrewall at high speed, had a highspeed shaking-up smash, broken the car very expensively, ruined their race, gone in a split-second from being 'in the zone' to being somewhere else entirely.
And some prat will stick a micophone under their noses and ask an asinine question. These are young rookie drivers just in the bigtime like Cav, but they remember they represent big F1 teams with $million budgets and bigtime global sponsors, remember that whatever they say will be broadcast and repeated all round the world and so they don't sulkily express their dissatifaction with their team, sponsor or cars.
All the F1 teams have publicity officers who will school the drivers in this, and these drivers have come up through F3 and so on and done interviewing, sponsor presentations, etc for years.

You're right. And as a result F1 is just about the most soulless and characterless sport going, full of interchangeable corporate drones with copy and paste interview answers.

The exception to this is Kimi Raikkonen, a complete loose cannon and PR disaster. But he's also by far the most popular driver (worldwide) and would be the first or second name on any sponsor's wish list, because he's the fastest. He also gets paid the most.

SamWise72

People seem to have trouble recognising that there are TWO things at play here. You judge his ability as a rider on one thing - his riding. You judge whether you LIKE him on something else - his personality. I don't have a problem with his cockiness, but his rudeness at the end of that stage, I didn't like. It doesn't mean he's not a great rider, but if I started judging people's likeability on how good they were at their job, the likes of Alan Sugar would be coming to dinner more often. Cav is a great rider, but he seems like an arsehole, and I'm glad not to know him personally.

andy_wrx

SamWise72 wrote:

he seems like an arsehole, and I'm glad not to know him personally.

== 'I don't know him, have never met him, but I've decided he's an arsehole'


But we do employ such judgement in our private lives.
Say someone new joins at work, we see them a couple of times from a distance but never talk to them, we often form a strong and definite opinion of them.
Then one day you end-up working with them, get to know them, realise they're nothing like that at all.

graeme_s-2

RichN95 wrote:

You're right. And as a result F1 is just about the most soulless and characterless sport going, full of interchangeable corporate drones with copy and paste interview answers.

The exception to this is Kimi Raikkonen, a complete loose cannon and PR disaster. But he's also by far the most popular driver (worldwide) and would be the first or second name on any sponsor's wish list, because he's the fastest. He also gets paid the most.

The drivers who speak out in interviews have always been the most popular/interesting (DC, Irvine, Montoya).

In fairness though, Lewis Hamilton is getting very similar criticism from British fans as Cav. He's incredibly talented, knows it, isn't afraid to say it, and can be sulky in interviews. Sound familiar? I think part of the problem is the British just aren't used to this winning attitude from their sports people. Consistent winning of any sort isn't particularly British is it?

weyayeman

Did Tom Simpson get all this crap when he was riding? Im too young to remember but I bet a mars bar he didnt.Cavendish is a special talent lets sit back and enjoy the ride

andrewc3142

As far as I'm concerned it's great to see him win stages.

Besides which, I thought his "Nothing, got nothing to learn" remark refreshingly honest and it made me smile. Comes across as a perfectly normal guy.

tabmaster

3 stages for Cav now! Needs a nick name better than 'Cav'

campagchris

supercavisfantastic saunierarethe dopists :roll:

more to come lets hope he has enough gas in the tank for champs elysees

Moomaloid

Andy_wrx, Well written! I totally agree with everything you said.... He's loving bike racing and you can really tell he is still a little star struck.

Needs to work on his finish line celebrations mind!

st68

cocky or not hes bloody fast

OffTheBackAdam

I'm I the only ex-racer (O>K, Very ex!) to be dead chuffed when he performed well and sulked something wicked when he lost big time?
He wins, he's a happy bunny, he gets a kicking he just wants to slink off a sulk.
He's not exactly at Fignon levels is he?

Eurostar

He's 26-1 for the green jersey at Betfair - anybody tempted? I bet he wants to win on the Champs Elysses almost as much as he wants the Olympic gold...

simon_e

I think he's starting to wonder if he has the legs to make it to Paris.

That's OK lad, 3 wins like these and you have earned a rest before Beijing.

I've not been this excited about watching a British rider in the TdF since Robert Millar in the 80s (no disrespect to more recent Brit riders, naturally). Can't get enough of those overhead shot of Cavendish pulling away from them all. Great to have a rider to cheer for in that slightly partisan way that is so often absent on the international stage. Desktop wallpaper or a poster of this photo would go down well too.

DaveyL

You've got to hand it to Zabel. In every shot of a stage sprint win, there he is - 5 - 10 m behind with a forlorn look on his face...

wiffachip

[quote="Moomaloid

Needs to work on his finish line celebrations mind! [/quote]

well he's gettin plenty practise

afx237vi

Eurostar wrote:

He's 26-1 for the green jersey at Betfair - anybody tempted? I bet he wants to win on the Champs Elysses almost as much as he wants the Olympic gold...

41 points behind Freire, and by my reading of the stage profiles, there are only two bunch sprints left. Tomorrow and Paris.

He could sprint for minor placings in some of the other rolling transitional stages, but Freire and Hushovd are much better over that kind of terrain than he his. Those two uphill finishes in the first week really cost him.

In a "normal" Tour, with a whole week of dead flat stages to start, he'd be miles ahead.

kevin_stephens

I reckon he'll go all out for a fantastic 4th win tomorrow before returning home for a well earned rest at the GB olympic training camp, rather than having to have those heavy sprinter's legs towed up the mountain stages just to get to Paris

drenkrom

Would a 4th win put him equal to the record Cipo beat a few years back? Or was that record that the 4 wins came in a row?

Coriander

drenkrom wrote:

Would a 4th win put him equal to the record Cipo beat a few years back? Or was that record that the 4 wins came in a row?

Didn't Gary Imlach say this evening that the record is 8 wins in one Tour (can't remember who he said it was), other than that no one else had won more than 3?

RichN95.

drenkrom wrote:

Would a 4th win put him equal to the record Cipo beat a few years back? Or was that record that the 4 wins came in a row?

Cipo was four in a row. The record for a single Tour is eight - Merckx (twice!), Freddy Maertens and Pelessier.

RichN95.

Coriander wrote:

drenkrom wrote:

Would a 4th win put him equal to the record Cipo beat a few years back? Or was that record that the 4 wins came in a row?

Didn't Gary Imlach say this evening that the record is 8 wins in one Tour (can't remember who he said it was), other than that no one else had won more than 3?

Imlach was talking about career wins for a Brit (Barry Hoban on 8, both Millars and Cav on 3, maybe Boardman too)

Coriander

RichN95 wrote:

Coriander wrote:

drenkrom wrote:

Would a 4th win put him equal to the record Cipo beat a few years back? Or was that record that the 4 wins came in a row?

Didn't Gary Imlach say this evening that the record is 8 wins in one Tour (can't remember who he said it was), other than that no one else had won more than 3?

Imlach was talking about career wins for a Brit (Barry Hoban on 8, both Millars and Cav on 3, maybe Boardman too)

Ah, thank you, I might try listening properly next time.

knedlicky

Simon E wrote:

I think he's starting to wonder if he has the legs to make it to Paris.
That's OK lad, 3 wins like these and you have earned a rest before Beijing.

Kevin Stephens wrote:

I reckon he'll go all out for a fantastic 4th win tomorrow before returning home for a well earned rest at the GB olympic training camp.

Cavendish sort-of suggested in his interview today that he’d pull out before Paris. If he does, I hope he gets as much condemnation as Super-Mario did in his day for such behaviour.

DavidBelcher

knedlicky wrote:

Cavendish sort-of suggested in his interview today that he’d pull out before Paris. If he does, I hope he gets as much condemnation as Super-Mario did in his day for such behaviour.

Why? Cipo just seemed to throw in the towel as and when he felt like it. Cav seems determined to give it a go for as long as he can physically manage without burning himself out, and the Olympics are after all an equally big, if not bigger, objective for his season. Plus he has, at least, given the big mountains a try - Cipo, from memory, usually seemed to bottle it at the first sniff of a serious gradient.

David