Is this normal wear & tear?

JoeSoap76

So I've had my bike for a few months. On the way home this afternoon my odometer ticked past the 400 mile mark so it's worn in (I hope) but not done an excessive distance (I think).

Over the last couple of weeks the left pedal has developed something of a squeek. Initially it was only when I was going up a hill and came out of the saddle (putting my full 260lbs on it), then it was when I was peddling hard even on flat... this evening it became every turn of the pedal, even if I lifted my foot off almost entirely.

I had visitors last weekend and didn't get a chance to do the weekly wash. Knowing that I'm away this coming weekend and worrying about the squeek today I decided that I'd give the bike a clean/lube this evening just to be sure.

Okay, so a quick test-run and the squeek has (temporarily at least) gone away. But whilst cleaning I noticed that the front brake cable is quite badly frayed where it's attached to the callipers. In fact, I'd say that about half of the 'wires' have snapped through.

I don't think I brake excessively hard - I've never managed to get the thing to go into a skid. Saying that, I'm not a small guy and it probably takes quite a lot of effort for those little pads to stop my momentum.

My question is, is this normal? Should I be looking at a new brake cable after just 400 miles?

Also, all four of the brake pads are quite worn (the rears almost completely). I'm putting that down to my weight, but... :?

----
EDIT:
And anybody got any advice on replacing these parts? Can I just get any (within reason) set of cables? What about the brake pads - do I need to search for a certain make/model or are they all going to fit and I just need to work out what my budget is?

karl j

are the wires snapped through because the little nut is / was done up too tight ?

pads worn out after 400 miles seems a little excessive to me, but of course it does depend on how they're being used.

I'd probably take it back to the shop and get them to answer a few questions.

meanwhile

You don't say what type of bike this is, where you got it, what conditions you've been riding it under, which might be useful to know. Generally though I'd say you should hassle the place you bought it unless you truly doubt their competence.

JoeSoap76

meanwhile wrote:

You don't say what type of bike this is, where you got it, what conditions you've been riding it under, which might be useful to know.

Sorry, you're right - not a lot of detail there.

It's an IronHorse Transit 3.0 2007 that I got at the local Evans Cycles. I've been riding it on the daily commute to/from work - fairly flat (a few hills), not the best of road surfaces but not the worst either, the weather has been okay.

JoeSoap76

karl j wrote:

are the wires snapped through because the little nut is / was done up too tight ?

Ah. Is there a rule of thumb for this? How tight is too tight? Must confess that I did fiddle with the brakes after I picked the bike up (just having a look at what was what)... :oops:

downfader

I have found the cheaper shimano v pads wear down pretty quickly, and all pads wear quicker when it rains a lot (I think because much gets picked up on the wheel and grinds it). In my own bike I have been using the Clarkes cartridge v type. The cartridge holder will take an Aztec pad I'm told, and the guy in the local shop seems to think the aztecs are pretty good.

Trouble is he's never got any in stock for me to try.

always_tyred

I know - what is it with those AZtecs? Shops only sell the catridges with the pads. What's the point of having cartridges if you can't get refills?

Wiggle do them.

Back to the thread - brake pads can wear pretty fast. Careful, if your pads have gone down that far, your rims might be taking a beating as well.

The situation with the cables does sound a bit off. I've never been able to damage a cable by overtightening, and I'm one for persisting with the most knackered of splay-ended cables and cranking the bolt down to make sure it stays put (what can I say, I'm lazy and I never have a spare cable there when I need it), I mean, I have used cables for so long they've frayed under the bb and within the shifters, but never at the bolt. So I can only assume they are crappy cables. Evans cycles needn't know that you had a wee adjust. Its not like you've written it down anywhere.

Don't Evans offer a post-purchase tune up? I bet they do.

I also suspect you've got a reasonable chance of getting some help with the pedals. If they are the ones that came with the bike, they might be token gesture platform pedals, as opposed to reasonable quality platforms.

In which case, they might have about 50 sets in the back waiting for the skip, for customers who have asked for the pedals from their old bikes to be installed.

Good luck.

meanwhile

JoeSoap76 wrote:

meanwhile wrote:

You don't say what type of bike this is, where you got it, what conditions you've been riding it under, which might be useful to know.

Sorry, you're right - not a lot of detail there.

It's an IronHorse Transit 3.0 2007 that I got at the local Evans Cycles. I've been riding it on the daily commute to/from work - fairly flat (a few hills), not the best of road surfaces but not the worst either, the weather has been okay.

Looks like a really nice bike. Evans are supposed to be ok. You've not done much with it. So I'd say take it back and make them fix it. Bikes can vary with the mechanic who did final assembly in the store, and yours might have had an off day. If they won't, tell them you want the reason why in writing on headed notepaper, dated, signed by the manager, with a description of the bike so you can discuss things with the CAB to see if they think the store is being fair. If they're not half wits they'll then fold, especially if you have a witness with you.

meanwhile

downfader wrote:

I have found the cheaper shimano v pads wear down pretty quickly, and all pads wear quicker when it rains a lot (I think because much gets picked up on the wheel and grinds it).

Yes, but in 400 miles??? And the cables are fraying too. Sounds like something is wrong.

Btw - is this a disc brake bike? There is a Transit 3 Disc, but I don't know if there's a special model. I've not had a disc bike yet, but the brakes can produce huge torque and have a rep for being a pain to set up. Get it checked: if cables keep snapping the strain will be taken by fewer and fewer, which may eventually all go at once, leaving you under a bus. *NEVER* take chances with brake maintenance. In fact, get a decent book now so that you know how to do the job yourself, or at least know if its been done right.

JoeSoap76

Thanks all Shall pop along to Evans this evening for a once over.

meanwhile wrote:

Btw - is this a disc brake bike?

Nope - funnily, I decided I didn't know enough about bike maintenance to go for discs

JoeSoap76

Well, it seems I'm a typical Brit

Went into Evans (with bike) and pointed out the frayed cables (discovered that the cable for the front gear had also frayed this evening when it stuck into my calf on the way home!), worn brakes and squeeking pedal.

"Not a lot we can do about the pedal. You could try removing it and greasing here, here and here. Looks like the 'nipples' have come off your cables and that's why they're frayed and snapping. I can do you a new set of brake cables. You've done 400 miles, you say? Well, it's not unusual to wear your brakes down. I'll get a couple of sets of pads for you."

So I left the shop £50 poorer with an hour of maintenance ahead of me just to get the brakes working again. And I thanked the guy as I walked out the door... cursing my stereotypical British way of dealing with poor customer service as I did so.

Grrrr... :x

JoeSoap76

Sorry to drag this one to the top again... but...

To bring you up to date: I put the bike in for a service at Evans about a month ago and stressed that the pedal was squeeking badly. They said they'd take a look and, to be fair, the first couple of times riding when I got it back were nice and quiet.

But it's back and it's as bad as ever.

Wonder if any of you could help with a little advice and answer a few questions...

-- I've just looked up the components of my bike and the bottom bracket is a sealed component. Does that mean there's little I can do by way of greasing/lubing it?

-- If there is anything I can do to treat this myself, what tools would you suggest I might need?

-- Does the fact I'm asking these questions really mean I shouldn't even be trying to mess with such an integral component of the bike?

I'm doing the Glasgow -> Edinburgh 'Pedal for Scotland' ride on Sunday and it's dawned on me that the noise from my bike is going to drive everybody around me absolutely nuts by time we've gone 50+ miles. Ideally I'd just like to sort this myself on Saturday but I don't want to end up half way to Edinburgh the next day with a crank arm sticking in my calf.

:oops:

always_tyred

I'm not sure where you are at with this bike; is it the pedal or is it the bottom bracket?

If the former, I think that you should be philosophical. The pedals that come with complete bikes are the cheapest tosh imaginable. For the purposes of getting a squeak free day out of it, I'd propose trying to get some lubricant in there one way or another. There are some fairly light penetrating oils (not WD40 types) that might be light enough to get into the bearings but viscous enough to stay there for long enough. Just get yourself something cheap and use lots of it! Afterwards, consider getting some more pedals.

If the latter - again, this should not happen so quickly and it may need replacing. I'd get a shop to do it again because its not a trivial task and you will need special tools.

You need to be less British (are you the only reticent person in Glasgow?!?); if this was a bike provided to you by Evans, and the cable ends came off and/or the cables were crap and not fit for purpose, they should have been replaced free of charge. Crimping cable end so that you can pull the bike along by it is not difficult. Therefore, if yours have come off during normal use, its the shop's mistake.

Also, I am surprised that you were not in any case granted a free first tune up. I've not bought many complete bikes, but this is a very common offer made by decent shops. It wouldn't hurt to complain, in writing, more centrally than an actual branch of the chain of shops. Perhaps take a look online and see if they do, in fact, offer this. If some kid at the shop has deemed 400 miles to be beyond the range of an initial tune up, you should again complain.

£50 for replacing cables and brake pads (total cost of parts about £5) is daylight robbery. A reasonable hourly rate for a bike mechanic in expensive old Edinburgh is, at most, £25. That job is, at most, a 10 minute job. Something is wrong. Given that the rest of the "tune up" appears not to have had any effect, you need to ask what it is that they actually did. Putting a bike on a stand and having a natter and randomly tweaking some cable tensions and/or verifying that the pedals and wheels still turn is not chargeable time in my opinion.

Absolutely if your BB is knackered, this needs replacing free of charge. If this isn't offered, ask for it. You should get many 1000's miles out of a BB. If they decline when you have asked for it, you should be firm - it will just be some kid or wannabe manager making the decision and somewhat loudly explaining the injustice of paying for new parts after such a short time in earshot of other people considering buying a bike from them makes wannabe's business acumen of ripping you off for £100 or so pointless.

The bottom line is that at a shop like Evans, you are already paying a premium - nice location in a swanky centre underneath a ski-hill, lots of space in store to show off shiny bikes at interesting angles of repose, matching uniforms for the staff. Its all built in there somewhere. The trade off should be some decent customer service.

JoeSoap76

Always Tyred wrote:

I'm not sure where you are at with this bike; is it the pedal or is it the bottom bracket?

I'm not sure where I'm at with this bike either... :oops:

There's a squeeking that comes from the general area of my left foot... but only when I'm riding the bike. I was thinking of a 'belt and braces' approach where it could be the pedal or could be the bottom bracket (could even be my toes for all I know) so I'll just give them all a look and a clean.

I think you're probably right though and I just need to wait until there's a bit of cash in the kitty for a decent set of pedals. As you say, the ones I have are likely just a cheap set banged on in the back of the shop.

In my head I imagine myself sitting in a custom-built tool shed with every individual part of my bike laid out before me, carefully cleaned and lubricated, ready to be lovingly reassembled into the machine of my dreams. In reality I'm stood scratching my head and wondering what to call the parts, let alone how to take them to pieces and clean them. :?

Always Tyred wrote:

You need to be less British

Oh, I always plan to be. I get myself all fired up, determined to stand my ground and get what I'm after... then they ask me a question I don't know the answer to, they get a look on their faces that says "Ah ha! He's a sucker!" and the next thing I know I'm handing over my credit card just so I can get out the door and regain some dignity.

Honestly, if I had to sum up the way the staff at Evans treat me I'd liken it to the stereotype of a woman trying to get a car serviced.

I found a local bike shop that's open until 8pm and really doesn't have the overhead of space to show off shiny bikes. I'm hoping they'll be a little less keen to take advantage of my ignorance

UnworthyPapaLazaru

Bicycle Tutor - stick that into google and it should being up a handy web site. It will give you help on the tools required and how to use them.

Ive been told to steer clear of Evans. Hopefully your LBS will be of more help.

Enjoy the Glasgow - Edinburgh!

always_tyred

Here's something from the Evans website:

"First Service Free of charge

During the first few weeks of riding parts of the bike tend to work their way loose and out of alignment. This can lead to the bike performing sub-optimally leading to undue wear.

For this reason we offer a first service free of charge on all new bikes. This service should be carried out between 3-8 weeks of purchasing the bike (dependent on use) and can be booked at any of our stores (Mail Order/Internet customers can also have this work carried out at any of our stores)."

(http://www.evanscycles.com/servicing)

So, I reckon they owe you £50, unless you had it serviced in the interim.

JoeSoap76

Yeah, you get a little voucher when buying the bike... which has an expiry date on it. I think I missed it by about 2 months.

always_tyred

Barstweards.

That is not cool. Remind me not to use Evans.

I'm so mad (on your behalf).

dafruk

Sealed bottom bracked should not have any issues after 400 miles, so I'd probably not worry about that. And being sealed there is sod all you can do with it really.

The pedal is the most likely culprit. They are pretty easy to strip down and relube so I'd be willing to bet you could pretty easily do that to check. One thing to keep an eye on is whether it is a missing part on the pedal that causes the fault. If your other pedal is fine check the two of them both look externally identical and they've not missed off some cap or similar when putting the left one together.

The nice people at the edin bike coop actually send you a reminder in the post when your service is due. What lovely people they are making sure I don't forget like Evans do.

JoeSoap76

Always Tyred wrote:

I'm so mad (on your behalf).

And the hits just keep on comin'

I was about two miles from home this morning when I came to a red light. I positioned myself at the front of the (long) queue of traffic - on a dual carriageway - and waited for green. Green came, I pulled away... and blam! There was an almighty crack and my back wheel locked up.

Fortunately I wasn't thrown and I was able to skid my way over to the side of the road. Imagine my surprise when I looked down and saw that the rear mech had snapped clean in two and the loose bit - complete with chain - was now wrapped around my spokes.

I've just been back to Evans - bits of bike in hand - and had a long-overdue 'discussion' with them about my bike.

Six months old, fewer than 800 miles and this is the third time I've had to take it in to get looked at? A rear mech snapping in two in front of two lanes of rush-hour traffic? I don't think so!!

What really capped it off was when the assistant asked 'So, are you looking to get this done under some kind of warranty or something?'. Let's just say that being 'too British' wasn't really a problem for me today! :x


http://flickr.com/photos/joesoap/2861691881/

always_tyred

Wow. If its any consolation, by chain snapped this morning. Unfortunately for me, a result of my own competence!!

I do wonder if Evans' customer service reflects that fact that they do not have a shortage of customers. You know, a bit like pubs in great locations that serve crappy overpriced food because they don't really mind if you never come back, there's a queue of other unsuspecting people to serve frozen peas to.

Or, in your case, a lemon (not you, the bike I mean).

JoeSoap76

:x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x

Quick update (because you are going to get the brunt of my rant until Evans opens tomorrow morning - sorry).

So I took the bike to Evans yesterday morning at 10am - opening time. After a ten-minute wait whilst the assistant puzzled over what to do he finally said that the mechanics would need to take a look to determine whether the damage would be covered under warranty. I was promised a phonecall today at the latest.

Stupidly, I left my mobile at home today. So I called Evans a little after noon to check for any updates. They hadn't looked at the bike yet so I left my office number and asked that they call me back when they had.

Got home to find a message on my mobile from 3pm. It was Evans. I listened to it. I started to swear uncontrollably.

They've taken my rear mech and 'sent it to <unintelligable> to determine whether the damage is covered under warranty'. It's going to take 10 to 14 days before they'll know.

14 days?!?! What the ***???

So, general concensus time - how many miles of city commuting would you expect to be able to do on a brand new hybrid bike before the rear mech snapped in half?

I think you're right, Always. I think if Evans were at all worried about repeat business they'd be doing more. I don't mean that they have to bend over backwards - but 14 days before I even know if they'll fix it? That means I'm having to drive into the city center for the next two weeks which will cost me about £60 in fuel and parking... not to mention the drop in exercise!

Does anybody know what the law is here?

The most dissapointing thing is that the guy who helped me when I went in to buy the bike was great. I knew (still know really) next to nothing and he answered dozens of what must have seemed like basic questions without any sign of frustration. I've been back a few times to buy odds and ends (inner tubes, clothes, etc) and on the occasions when he's served me he has, again, been curteous and helpful. But some of the other assistants in there just act as though customers are an inconvenience.

I shall be calling to speak to the manager tomorrow. Expect another rant. Sorry (again).

STEFANOS4784

Talk to citizens advise, this sounds like a right night-mare :shock:
Also ask for the head office address and name of the MD when that happens where i work it seems, un-fortunately, to make the manager much more receptive to the complaint in hand :x

Greg T

JoeSoap76 wrote:

So, general concensus time - how many miles of city commuting would you expect to be able to do on a brand new hybrid bike before the rear mech snapped in half?

They should not fail like that at all.

Something is very wrong with the fitting or manufacture to cause what you describe.

Littigator

I had a rear mech snap like that. The hangers they are mounted on (the bit that has snapped in your photo) is made weaker than the mech itself so that it breaks under strain rather than the mech itself breaking.

It's a bit like a fuse in a plug, if that's a good analogy?

Anyway, what cuased it with mine was I'd had fallen off (first time in cleats and stopping at some lights, so not fast at all and went down on my right hand side. This caused the mech to bend in only very slightly. When I stood up on the pedals to climb a hill some time later the mech pushed in slightly with the chain under increased tension and got caught in the spokes.

It sounds like this may be what happened with yours, check the spokes for any slight dents or twisting this will show that the mech got caught in the spokes. If not and I gues the Evans mechanic should have checked for this, then it may be a truly faulty part.

Lesson is, if ever you fall off even slowly, check your bike all over thoroughly

CiB

WTF are they on at EC?

Your bike has done a handful hundreds of miles, it's broken, it's less than a year old; they have a legal responsibility under the Sale Of Goods act to fix or replace the goods. It doesn't take two weeks to look at the receipt and see that the bicycle is within the warranty period.

I'd be in there asap asking questions and asking to speak to someone higher up the food chain there, and frankly from the problems you've described I'd be asking for a replacement [but privately willing to settle for the faults to be fixed for free] so that I can enjoy the benefit of my purchase.

Look up the relevant sections of the Sale Of Goods act, and what Evans own web site says, then get in there and without being bolshy ask them what exactly is preventing them from adhering to the the law and their own promises as stated on the web site.

IMHO.

cjw

There are two key part in the sale of Goods Act that you need to be aware of.

First part; at time of sale goods must be fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale). However, the purchaser must identify this failure within a reasonable time (which is not defined and is dependant upon circumstances)

You may be able to argue something here with respect to low milage usage.

Second Part; If a consumer chooses to request a repair or replacement, then for the first six months after purchase it will be for the retailer to prove the goods did conform to contract (e.g. were not inherently faulty) to wriggel out of it.

Sounds as though this is what they are try to do

Try to speak to someone higher up. Branch Manger at the very least.

Sounds like they are being absoute barstewards though.

il_principe

This is exactly why I do not use Evans. However I appreciate that this is not helpful. You mentioned earlier that you clean and lube the bike every week. It could be that your (wonderfully) zealous approach to cleaning is part of the problem here. Do you use a degreaser? If so be careful where you apply this as it will strip lube out of hard to reach areas and ultimately cause accelerated wear and tear perhaps resulting an a "squeak." I appreciate that you are relubing but unfortunately there’s no guarantee that the lube is getting to all the degreased parts. For example - KMC, who are a renowned chain manufacturer recommend never ever using a degreaser on their chains as it will damage them even if you relube. So try cleaning any parts that require lube with a damp cloth instead of degreaser.

Hope you get Evans sorted out!

biondino

jashburnham wrote:

For example - KMC, who are a renowned chain manufacturer recommend never ever using a degreaser on their chains as it will damage them even if you relube. So try cleaning any parts that require lube with a damp cloth instead of degreaser.

Oops - I went degreaser crazy on my chain the other day. Gave it a hefty (dry) lube afterwards though - am I a ticking time bomb?

Greg T

You'd need to get pretty serious about your cleaning routine and choice of degreaser to have your rear mech snap in half.....

il_principe

biondino wrote:

jashburnham wrote:

For example - KMC, who are a renowned chain manufacturer recommend never ever using a degreaser on their chains as it will damage them even if you relube. So try cleaning any parts that require lube with a damp cloth instead of degreaser.

Oops - I went degreaser crazy on my chain the other day. Gave it a hefty (dry) lube afterwards though - am I a ticking time bomb?

Yep! http://www.kmcchain.com/index.php?ln=en&fn=service#2