Professional photographers.advice needed if you are one pls

bonk man

My daughter has been snapping :? the dog [photogenic collie] and putting them on her flickr site.

She has been contacted by a ad company who want to use some in an ad campaign etc. They have offered a 3 - 5 year licence to use deal or to buy outright.

It is a major pet food company [ their website shows big name clients and looks legit].
What sort of money should she expect? [ per pic]
A rough guide to this and any pitfalls .. She wants to keep the copyright.
Will it get her through next years uni ?????
Nice one ..

bobpzero

be absolutely sure about it, as long as she gets some work experience and be sincere about it. be sure everything is down on paper for her and company. d & ad or http://www.the-aop.org/home.htm should be able to help with advice.

FullFrameRob

Im no pro but i also like to take a few snaps. Sold a few pics to a magazine about 6 months ago. Didnt get big bucks but i gave them my price, which at first i dont think they wanted to pay but i said take it or leave it, i did get the feeling that the magazine contacted me as a way of trying to get some pics on the cheap.

As for what to charge, all depends really on how rare a pic it is ect could they contact someone else on Flickr and get they same sort of pic. very much doubt that the fee will get her through a years uni fees

Overall my one and only picture sale so far went fine, i got paid my money and they got some pics to use.

Maybe worth having a look of some photography forums for some better advice.

richardast

Don't know about photos, but as a comparison I know that original artwork for greeting cards gets £400 for a 3 year licence from one international firm. That's for a product where people are actually buying the piece of artwork over and over again.
Might be some useful beer money but I wouldn't get too carried away too early.

Good luck though.

bonk man

"Might be some useful beer money but I wouldn't get too carried away too early. "

She is an unusual young person and is tea total ....

It will be interesting to see what they offer..
cheers.

robbie the roadie

I had a friend at uni who had quite a lot of stuff published in canoeing magazines. The important thing is to keep the rights to the photo's so a licencing agreement is always the best option.

If you sell the photo to them they can then use it how they wish and you won't see anymore cash even if the photo goes on to be part of a huge advertising campaign.

for a better response try www.photoanswers.co.uk

FSR_XC

Difficult one this.

What do you want to get out of it?

Most companies have set rates that they pay for pictures. Buying the copyright is unusual and normally dictates a much bigger fee paid.

I have sold a few pictures. Not for advertising campaigns though.

Had a major motorcycle company ask me for a shot I took at Autosport this year (on press day). They wanted to use it in post event press publicity. Sounded great. I thought they would pay a good rate. When the guy said 'I don't normally buy single shots like this, we normally commision our work . . . .' I thought I was rather interested. Then he continued ' . . . I was thinking £10 - £15'.
They didn't end up using my picture!

I would see what they offer first. If it is close to your initial thoughts, I would add 20%, with a view to accepting 10% more. If it's a long way off, ask if this is a normal fee for a picture?

bonk man

We have asked them what they are willing to pay , which is a good place to start, enquiries have revealed some decent money paid for this sort of deal, as it is a major company and a make over hopefully it will mean a good bit of dosh. They could be fishing of course as there are lots of good doggy pics on flikr but my daughters are pretty good, and the dog is lovely.

Mark Alexander

It's a tough one.
One thing you need to know is. How much would it cost them to hire a photographer for a day's commercial shoot?
Most photographers are nice. I'd be surprised if you spoke to one they wouldn't be happy to give a ballpark figure or just advice. Don't expect to pay for a whole year's college but you never know... I haven't done it for a while so don't know the current rates.

Never sell your copyright whatever you do!.

bonk man

I do weddings [ professional but VERY occasional jobs] and charge about £400 for half a days work, I suppose a session taking dog pics would be worth as much..
I have had pics in the Audax mag...... payment .......£0.......... but nice to have my work used. Good cause as well I suppose, as the mag can't make a great deal of money.

My bike pics are here...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/67774599@N00/sets/72157604782337095/

my daughters doggy stuff is here.. worth a look..
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25822731@N02/2630550222/in/photostream/

Rob Sallnow

A calender company got in contact with me to ask to use a photo of the Flying Scotsman that I'd taken and uploaded to some bloke's steam pics site.

They asked me to name my price and so asked for and got £20 and a calender as I'd completely forgotten all about the pic, I thought it thouroughly unremarkable for the purpose they wanted it for, and it hadn't cost me a penny to have it online in the first place.

Mark Alexander

Bonk Man and Rob. I hate to say it but our experience, including my many weddings are irrelevant when it comes to pricing.

bigjim

As an x pro. This is an attempt to buy photography on the cheap. A lot of it about now with the advent of photo web sites. They will pay peanuts in the hope that you will be seduced by seeing your photos in print. There is a huge amount of top quality shots in photo libraries but you have to pay a professional price for these. If this abismal practice continues most professional photography/photographers will cease to exist. Imagine somebody doing your job as a hobby and only asking a 10th or less of your hourly rate.

Jim

allen

bigjim wrote:

As an x pro. This is an attempt to buy photography on the cheap. A lot of it about now with the advent of photo web sites. They will pay peanuts in the hope that you will be seduced by seeing your photos in print. There is a huge amount of top quality shots in photo libraries but you have to pay a professional price for these. If this abismal practice continues most professional photography/photographers will cease to exist. Imagine somebody doing your job as a hobby and only asking a 10th or less of your hourly rate.

As a full time pro I would completely agree with the above. I commision and shoot editorial work and we pay between £550 to 850 for one days work for editorial work .Double that for advertising if not more. Can a quote froma specialist animal advertising photog and the beer money this company wants to pay will become apparent. Work out how much you would have to charge to cover kit, rent, wages, adverts, pension, car and then think day rate. Never ever sell yourself cheap - lawyers and accountants etc never do

bonk man

They have come back with $200 per shot over 5 years [1/4 page size] . I suppose if they want 10 pics that's a grand in the bank for less than a days work, they do the editing etc.

I would do more photo work if I could be arsed, it is easy peasey and I even enjoy the weddings though the wife gets in a major stress over it we have one this Saturday and the stress is ..... have we got the right film ... is it going to tip down or what??

I am stuck with the gardening work, I love my old lady customers and they love me :P perhaps one will leave me all their money and I can retire on it and buy lots of bikes ..and beer..

My daughter is doing micro biology at uni, I think she would make good money doing the photo stuff as she has a natural aptitude for it where as I have wasted gigs of memory and miles of film to be an average wedding snapper and photoshop jockey :?

FSR_XC

bigjim wrote:

As an x pro. This is an attempt to buy photography on the cheap. A lot of it about now with the advent of photo web sites. They will pay peanuts in the hope that you will be seduced by seeing your photos in print. There is a huge amount of top quality shots in photo libraries but you have to pay a professional price for these. If this abismal practice continues most professional photography/photographers will cease to exist. Imagine somebody doing your job as a hobby and only asking a 10th or less of your hourly rate.

Jim

Exactly the problem.

If it keeps going, there will be hardly any 'professional' photographers.

bonk man

The argument about hobby snappers taking the profit out of professional photography is a bit over exaggerated is it not? Hobby photographers don't do more than the occasional wedding and might sell a few pics through being spotted on photo sites.

It is another art form that is a bit elitist and slightly pompous in my opinion, a skill that can be learnt by anyone.

Just because you have a skill doesn't mean you have a right to make a pile of cash out of it just as being a plumber doesn't give you the right to complain when that Polish guy undercuts him for the same job, it is a free market and we have to accept it.

We get enough wedding jobs through word of mouth, never advertise, hand over the negatives and supply big prints of every pic we take for about £400 and make a good bit of money out of it. We could do portrait and commission work every day but chose to do other types of work instead. We are taking about £500 out of the pockets of the local big boys by severely undercutting them but boo hoo to them just as any other job it's dog eat dog.
Maybe we should start a family business doing sensibly priced photography
:twisted:

As for people paying peanuts for photo's it is up to us to make sure the hobby snapper is aware of the money they could make from one photo and not get conned. If the ad man wants your pic but is unwilling to pay then it is possible some one else might be interested or it is worth putting into a competition. Some of my daughters stuff would win prizes, £1,000 camera or a holiday is better than 50 quid

ricadus

bonk man wrote:

The argument about hobby snappers taking the profit out of professional photography is a bit over exaggerated is it not? Hobby photographers don't do more than the occasional wedding and might sell a few pics through being spotted on photo sites.

Afraid not, because the local newspaper industry (for example) is largely owned by sharks who pay their staff peanuts and are always on the lookout for advertisers to write fake news articles (advertorials) or amateur photographers to provide cheap or cost-free pictures.

Ignoring the cut-throat editorial world, for providing advertising/packaging work for a major client fees charged start at around £800 per day plus all expenses to £1500–£2000 per day, reflecting the degree of photographic talent and skill required for corporate branding and prestige publications. You can see why a middleman (a design/PR/advertising agency) would want to find cheap photography - they can charge the client the industry rate as part of their design package, keeping most of it for themselves, or, maybe if pitching for work, undercut rivals.