Stabbing Victims

spen666

2 questions here

1. As we hear on news of yet another youth killed in London this weekend ( 17 this year?) I wonder if this is a London only problem or if the problem of youths being murdered is as high (relatively) elsewhere in the country as media are so London centric we never hear of anything outside london.

2. Why are the deceased always such wonderful people with a bright future ahead of them and so loved by everyone without an enemy in the world. i've never heard of a "horrible" person being killed. Is the moral to bring our kids up to be horrible and that way they will avoid being killed?

flattythehurdler

1. Our youth can afford guns in other parts of the country as they don't have to worry as much about house prices.
2. I am sure you'll do your best.

spen666

flattythehurdler wrote:

1. Our youth can afford guns in other parts of the country as they don't have to worry as much about house prices.
....

Is that what is meant by London having high levels of poverty?

flattythehurdler

Poor dears.
Why knife crime suddenly got so bad though? Presumably human nature hasn't altered. There seems to be an increased level of knife carrying, and, perhaps more worryingly, an increased willingness to use a knife with an intent to kill. None of these stabbings seem tentative. I wonder what crime would be like if guns were as freely available as the States. It seems we are in a situation similar to that in NYC pre zero tolerance, without the political will to take really tough action.

spen666

flattythehurdler wrote:

Poor dears.
Why knife crime suddenly got so bad though? Presumably human nature hasn't altered. There seems to be an increased level of knife carrying, and, perhaps more worryingly, an increased willingness to use a knife with an intent to kill. None of these stabbings seem tentative. I wonder what crime would be like if guns were as freely available as the States. It seems we are in a situation similar to that in NYC pre zero tolerance, without the political will to take really tough action.

I remember as a kid having a sheath knife as did most of my mates- yet stabbings were virtually non existent amongst our age group

That if replicated nationwide seems to suggest it is not the availability of knives, but peoples attitudes to their use that affects the outcome we see so tragically today

flattythehurdler

I agree. I heard of the occasional stabbing growing up, but by and large they were non fatal. The stabbings of late seem to be calculated and murderous. One doesn't stab someone in the neck or heart to frighten them.

richardast

spen666 wrote:

Why are the deceased always such wonderful people with a bright future ahead of them and so loved by everyone without an enemy in the world. i've never heard of a "horrible" person being killed. Is the moral to bring our kids up to be horrible and that way they will avoid being killed?

Apart from the fella in Oxford Street a few weeks ago who was on bail for a gang-rape.

It interests me the way that 12 black kids from poor areas can get stabbed and it might make the local news, yet a white middle-class kid cops one and it launches a nationwide campaign in all the newspapers.

spen666

flattythehurdler wrote:

I agree. I heard of the occasional stabbing growing up, but by and large they were non fatal. The stabbings of late seem to be calculated and murderous. One doesn't stab someone in the neck or heart to frighten them.

This particular "one" doesn't stab anyone, anywhere :twisted:

flattythehurdler

In the back ? You are a lawyer after all.

Monty Dog

As the OP stated, we all used to carry and use knives as 'boyhood' accessories but it never occured to anyone that it was to be used to stick into someone else - I was brought up in Glasgow, with it's reputation for 'chibs' and razor-gangs but only knew of one person who was slashed, not stabbed. The irony is that they all say they carry knives for protection as they feel threatened - but it can only be from each other - the criminal justice system barely gives them a slap on the wrist for any misdemeanour. It would be worrying if it escalated to guns - you'd think twice about challenging anyone, regardless of what they'd done if you knew they'd pull out a piece on you.

grayo59

I had a sheath knife and an air rifle and didn't stab or shoot anyone. (Tho my bro did shoot his mate in the rear from 50 yards when he went to put the cans back on the fence! Caused much clutching to the jeans and swearing and a big red welt with a half embedded pellet which was soon removed with a pair of his - the victim's - sister's tweezers.)

I also made my own home made gun with a bit of copper pipe and the contents of several fireworks rammed into it and a wad of cotton wool and a ball bearing as a projectile. Stuck it in Dad's vice and fired it. It went through the wooden (admittedly thin) doors and took out his car headlight!

But daft as I was I never aimed anything at anybody - except an occasional pithy remark which would probably get me stabbed nowadays....

TheBoyBilly

I was listening to an ex-con on the radio recently who said that the reason for Razor Gangs using that weapon was that a knife would potentially end up with a fatal wound (and at the time a hanging, on conviction) but a razor was far less likely to result in a death but was, paradoxically, even more intimidating. Nice to know they had the victims welfare at heart.

bishbish

just another benefit of our wonderfull multi cultral nation
oh integration is so good
stab somone and get caught = get stabbed on pay per veiw tv by victim or relative
fair and funny

nwallace

spen666 wrote:

Is that what is meant by London having high levels of poverty?

Monty Dog wrote:

I was brought up in Glasgow, with it's reputation for 'chibs' and razor-gangs but only knew of one person who was slashed, not stabbed.

Deprivation apparently means more, Glasgow is right up there, high profile killings seem to happen regularly just now in London, but I didn't realise until recently that Nottingham is the sort of place going out at night on your own just isn't safe. there's only been 1 high profile killing there recently.

Glasgow does have a repuation, foudn this article from the indy.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_q ... _n16455810

TheBoyBilly wrote:

I was listening to an ex-con on the radio recently who said that the reason for Razor Gangs using that weapon was that a knife would potentially end up with a fatal wound (and at the time a hanging, on conviction) but a razor was far less likely to result in a death but was, paradoxically, even more intimidating. Nice to know they had the victims welfare at heart.

Or, a slashing victim probably of similar intent is unlikely to bother reporting the incident or if the incident is seen by witnesses and/or police make the required complaint to allow the police to do anything, where as a dead body automatically launches an investigation which as the brackets point out, would mean a hanging.

Gavin Gilbert

I do wonder if the over-the-top media reporting actually contributes to the the normalisation of the violence. Get in a fight and if you don't pull and then use a knife you're marked down as a pussy.....because everyone else uses one...

fast as fupp

bishbish wrote:

just another benefit of our wonderfull multi cultral nation
oh integration is so good
stab somone and get caught = get stabbed on pay per veiw tv by victim or relative
fair and funny

whats that got to do with it? dont white folk murder then?

dolt

fast as fupp

it sure does jethro

but thats not what you meant is it?

dust to dawn

ello
thats abit judgemental, some of these young stab victims are in the same world as the stabbers. its harsh buts its true.

bagpusscp

spen666 wrote:

flattythehurdler wrote:

Poor dears.
Why knife crime suddenly got so bad though? Presumably human nature hasn't altered. There seems to be an increased level of knife carrying, and, perhaps more worryingly, an increased willingness to use a knife with an intent to kill. None of these stabbings seem tentative. I wonder what crime would be like if guns were as freely available as the States. It seems we are in a situation similar to that in NYC pre zero tolerance, without the political will to take really tough action.

I remember as a kid having a sheath knife as did most of my mates- yet stabbings were virtually non existent amongst our age group

That if replicated nationwide seems to suggest it is not the availability of knives, but peoples attitudes to their use that affects the outcome we see so tragically today

Fear of this chap for along time kept the lid shut.
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/about-us/f ... ?view=Html

squired

Its knives at the moment, but I can't help thinking that very soon it will be guns instead.

I lived about 2 roads away from where the latest stabbing happened until about 10 years ago, and back then I liked the area. Its amazing how quickly things can go downhill.

Less than a week before this latest event there were gunshots heard a few hundred metres from the location of the stabbing.

Sadly the real problem seems to be how kids are being brought up. The Government can do certain things to try to fix this problem, but much of the damage has been done and is pretty much here to stay. As more affordable housing is built in more exclusive areas the problems will start appearing there too. It is inevitable.

fast as fupp

homophobic as well as rascist

hahaha!

youre a bad bulb, jethro

borisvanhalen

couldn't help noticing that the latest victim's picture shown in the media dipicted him in a 'GANSTA' style pose... holding imaginary pistols in both hands

seems to be gang related most of the time with the odd innocent caught up in the firing line...

i lived in Belfast for 7 years (now back in Scotland) and the situation was the same there except it was guns... all gang related there for control of drugs / protection rackets :? / religious areas

thankfully things are getting much better... but when was any of the Belfast violence in the papers

:?

Stewie Griffin

squired wrote:

Its knives at the moment, but I can't help thinking that very soon it will be guns instead.

My neighbour, 2 doors up has a bullet lodged in the chassis of her car from about 3 months ago, the Police advised her that its too difficult to get to, but its OK as they retrived enough from other places that night. The wall at the bottom of my road has a perfect line of 8 holes in it from an evening of teenage fun and frolics involving a machine pistol. Another teenager was shot by SIX different guns 4 years ago in the park at the bottom of my road after the Notting Hill Carnival. The Police block my road off at least twice a year for shootings, I asked a Policeman the last time I had to be walked to my front door to ensure I didnt stray into and contaminate the scene why they didnt teach teenagers to shoot properly so they dont adopt the same strategy as I do when trying to kill a fly in my house with a can of spray.

Im surprised at how many of you used to carry borers* as kids, never did, never crossed my mind too.

Quick edit, the poor fellow shot with 6 different guns was in his twenties, phew, thats OK then.

*NW London teenage dictionary, borer, tool used to bore holes in other teenagers, ye olde English, knife.

markos1963

What ever happened to a good old punch-up? When I was younger if you had an arguement with someone it was fisticuffs and the best man won. Nowerdays the kids are soft(strange I know) they don't know how to fight man to man. If you get one on his own with no blade(I have been in this position) they run like a frightened rabbit, unless of course he has 20'mates' behind him.

If they think they are so tough( I hardly think that South London qualifies as the Bronx!) then anyone convicted of these crimes should be shipped out to Afganistan and left to fend for themselves with their beloved knives. I am sure the Taliban will be shaking in their boots!

Seriously though, we have ourselves to blame. We let our kids play violent games, watch violent movies, idolise Gangsta's and Rappa's and then wonder why they turn to violence. We claim that they can't be influenced by the media but then complain about unsuitable adverts. We can't have it both ways.

I for one have not allowed my son access to toy guns,knives,violent video games or videos. I haven't shielded him from the world, he knows from the news that the world is a violent place. I can't say how he will turn out but I want to know that at least I tried.

passout

You can't blame music and space invaders! I would have thought drug crime & associated turf wars would have much more to do with it. Unfortunately drug crime is like pyramid selling nature, those at the top get most of the money and rarely get arrested. Those at the bottom get a fraction of the cash but much more risk - see the book 'Freakonomics' if interested. Those at the bottom often end up fighting over territory & getting stabbed.

I know that some (perhaps even most) of these victims didn't deal drugs but obvioulsly if you live in a place which has territorial knife/gun weilding drug gangs then it only takes been mates with the wrong person or just been in the wrong place at the wrong time. Knife culture started with the drug gangs but has spread more widely now. Nevertheless, I'm convinced that if you 'crack' down on drug crime AND knife crime in a coordinated fashion - in the long term - it may work. I'm talking zero tolerance for carrying weapons & supplying drugs. Other softer programes such as drug reabilitation also have their place - carrot & stick and all that.

In short it's money and financial incentive (the black market/drugs economy) that is the root cause. This greed has ecouraged this culture which scares kids and ecourages them to carry.

PS If you smoke pot, (which I admit is mostly harmless) you are helping to fuel this economy and are therefore part of the problem....just say no kids.

PPS Look what happened to Zammo!

idaviesmoore

Stewie Griffin wrote:

squired wrote:

Its knives at the moment, but I can't help thinking that very soon it will be guns instead.

My neighbour, 2 doors up has a bullet lodged in the chassis of her car from about 3 months ago, the Police advised her that its too difficult to get to, but its OK as they retrived enough from other places that night. The wall at the bottom of my road has a perfect line of 8 holes in it from an evening of teenage fun and frolics involving a machine pistol. Another teenager was shot by SIX different guns 4 years ago in the park at the bottom of my road after the Notting Hill Carnival. The Police block my road off at least twice a year for shootings, I asked a Policeman the last time I had to be walked to my front door to ensure I didnt stray into and contaminate the scene why they didnt teach teenagers to shoot properly so they dont adopt the same strategy as I do when trying to kill a fly in my house with a can of spray.

Im surprised at how many of you used to carry borers* as kids, never did, never crossed my mind too.

Quick edit, the poor fellow shot with 6 different guns was in his twenties, phew, thats OK then.

*NW London teenage dictionary, borer, tool used to bore holes in other teenagers, ye olde English, knife.

Iesu Grist!!! Where do you live, Dodge City? :twisted:

OffTheBackAdam

Doubtless Dear Gordon will announce some new strategy and laws to counteract this.
The numbers reported in the media will doubtless fade, when we have 2 or 3 bus/train crashes on the trot instead.
The victims of these and the various shootings that have occured involving much the same type of victim all seem to fit the same mold (French students excepted). Young, black and out past midnight.
The relative of the athlete (?) 16 and stabbed at 2am, that lad shot whilst cycling through a park in Manchester last year at what, half twelve at night?
Anyone else thoinking "What are their parent (s) doing letting them be out at that time?

Stewie Griffin

idaviesmoore wrote:

Stewie Griffin wrote:

squired wrote:

Its knives at the moment, but I can't help thinking that very soon it will be guns instead.

My neighbour, 2 doors up has a bullet lodged in the chassis of her car from about 3 months ago, the Police advised her that its too difficult to get to, but its OK as they retrived enough from other places that night. The wall at the bottom of my road has a perfect line of 8 holes in it from an evening of teenage fun and frolics involving a machine pistol. Another teenager was shot by SIX different guns 4 years ago in the park at the bottom of my road after the Notting Hill Carnival. The Police block my road off at least twice a year for shootings, I asked a Policeman the last time I had to be walked to my front door to ensure I didnt stray into and contaminate the scene why they didnt teach teenagers to shoot properly so they dont adopt the same strategy as I do when trying to kill a fly in my house with a can of spray.

Im surprised at how many of you used to carry borers* as kids, never did, never crossed my mind too.

Quick edit, the poor fellow shot with 6 different guns was in his twenties, phew, thats OK then.

*NW London teenage dictionary, borer, tool used to bore holes in other teenagers, ye olde English, knife.

Iesu Grist!!! Where do you live, Dodge City? :twisted:

I live between the below.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6188860.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/5209806.stm

norf wess lundun, braaaaap!*

*NW London teenage dictionary, braaaaap!, noise a machine gun might make whilst being indeterminately sprayed everywhere with ones eyes closed.