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Sean Yates comments on teams in the TDF guide

moray_gubmoray_gub Posts: 3,328
edited June 2008 in Pro race
Anyone else read Sean Yates comments on the Tour Teams in the TDF cycle sport supplement. Jeezo he didnt hang back did he....... more or less implying Saunier Duval are having a bad year compared to last year becuase of the biological passport system in full operation and calling the Nildram team a bunch of deseperados, saying Reme de Gregario is top of his hit list and Christophe Le Mevel is hopeless lol. Id imagine one or two will be knocking on his car window at the next big race Astana participate in . Go on big man say what you think.......


cheers
MG
Gasping - but somehow still alive !

Posts

  • KléberKléber Posts: 6,842
    I haven't read it but now I want to buy it. Good stuff, it's refreshing to hear some straight talking.
  • dealdeal Posts: 857
    Moray Gub wrote:
    Saunier Duval are having a bad year compared to last year becuase of the biological passport system in full operation

    not exactly the only person to hold this belief, great to hear someone actually say it!
  • deal wrote:
    Moray Gub wrote:
    Saunier Duval are having a bad year compared to last year becuase of the biological passport system in full operation

    not exactly the only person to hold this belief, great to hear someone actually say it!

    does not really hold water. Ricco had a great Giro.

    And they are not any dirtier than his teams past.
  • moray_gubmoray_gub Posts: 3,328
    deal wrote:
    Moray Gub wrote:
    Saunier Duval are having a bad year compared to last year becuase of the biological passport system in full operation

    not exactly the only person to hold this belief, great to hear someone actually say it!

    does not really hold water. Ricco had a great Giro.

    And they are not any dirtier than his teams past.

    i dont think anyone can argue their performances as a team this year are significantly worse than last year. Last year they won Paris Nice prologue,two stages in Tirreno,overall and two stages of the Basque Tour,three stages in the Giro. This year im struggling to recall anything other than Riccos giro stage wins. I make no claim regarding their drug use or other wise i am just stating that Yates claim about worse performances does hold water.

    cheers
    MG
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • nickwillnickwill Posts: 2,735
    deal wrote:
    Moray Gub wrote:
    Saunier Duval are having a bad year compared to last year becuase of the biological passport system in full operation

    not exactly the only person to hold this belief, great to hear someone actually say it!

    does not really hold water. Ricco had a great Giro.

    And they are not any dirtier than his teams past.

    Significantly Yates's team is still performing at a very high level with the new checks in place. This doesn't wholly support your aspersions about his previous team!
  • Nickwill wrote:
    deal wrote:
    Moray Gub wrote:
    Saunier Duval are having a bad year compared to last year becuase of the biological passport system in full operation

    not exactly the only person to hold this belief, great to hear someone actually say it!

    does not really hold water. Ricco had a great Giro.

    And they are not any dirtier than his teams past.

    Significantly Yates's team is still performing at a very high level with the new checks in place. This doesn't wholly support your aspersions about his previous team!

    I think you are wrong.

    Cobo and Ricco have had documented illnesses. They, with Simoni, got the results. And Peipoli.

    Those guys, without Simoni, have been thereabouts. Take Simoni out, and it has been a similar result.

    And Yates has always worked with a bunch of dirty dopers, thus why he no longer talks to Kimmage.
  • afx237viafx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Plus Yates' theory only works if you assume the bio passport is actually working and the teams have stopped doping... which is a bit optimistic to say the least.
  • KléberKléber Posts: 6,842
    As others say, it is dangerous when you live inside a glass house, no a glass palace, to start throwing stones. Now that Yates has brought up the subject of doping and bio passports, hopefully he'll be happy to chat to ProCycling in a full and frank interview and that he'll also explain why Rasmus Daamsgard has been totally silent (silenced?) on Astana's anti-doping programme.
  • blazing_saddlesblazing_saddles Posts: 19,306
    Never mind a two speed peloton, we now have a two tier Omerta.
    Yates is being hypocritical.
    Still, when you are being tipped off, on when you are getting your out of comp tests.
    His team's personal might be dodging the bullet, but there's a very heavy casualties list amongst ex-team riders. As for several recently signed rider's histories.....

    No, of course, they left Bruyneel's uber-clean team, because they all preferred to dope their way to success. :roll:
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Kléber wrote:
    As others say, it is dangerous when you live inside a glass house, no a glass palace, to start throwing stones. Now that Yates has brought up the subject of doping and bio passports, hopefully he'll be happy to chat to ProCycling in a full and frank interview and that he'll also explain why Rasmus Daamsgard has been totally silent (silenced?) on Astana's anti-doping programme.

    That's how Rasmus operates. I'm pretty sure if he wasn't working with them he'd deny it but he keeps quiet in general. It's the same with CSC.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • leguapeleguape Posts: 986
    Never mind a two speed peloton, we now have a two tier Omerta.
    Yates is being hypocritical.
    Still, when you are being tipped off, on when you are getting your out of comp tests.
    His team's personal might be dodging the bullet, but there's a very heavy casualties list amongst ex-team riders. As for several recently signed rider's histories.....

    No, of course, they left Bruyneel's uber-clean team, because they all preferred to dope their way to success. :roll:

    So much nonsense and defamation. Ever considered that the blokes who left and doped did so because they left and discovered that stepping up from domestique in a strong team to team leader in a less focused team was a big jump? No, that would far too obvious an answer, one far more supported by the reality than the fantasy league of defamation.
  • andypandyp Posts: 8,859
    leguape wrote:
    So much nonsense and defamation. Ever considered that the blokes who left and doped did so because they left and discovered that stepping up from domestique in a strong team to team leader in a less focused team was a big jump? No, that would far too obvious an answer, one far more supported by the reality than the fantasy league of defamation.
    How do you explain Roberto Heras winning the Vuelta whilst riding for USPS then?
  • blazing_saddlesblazing_saddles Posts: 19,306
    andyp wrote:
    leguape wrote:
    So much nonsense and defamation. Ever considered that the blokes who left and doped did so because they left and discovered that stepping up from domestique in a strong team to team leader in a less focused team was a big jump? No, that would far too obvious an answer, one far more supported by the reality than the fantasy league of defamation.
    How do you explain Roberto Heras winning the Vuelta whilst riding for USPS then?
    Oh and that bloke Frankie Andreu. :roll:

    Jermey Whittle has intimated in "Bad Blood" that there's another USPS rider, who remains anonymous, who has also confessed to using EPO.
    Anyhow, I've bought the mag, to read Monsieur Yates, as I had £1-50 off, with the Tour guide. :)
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • NJKNJK Posts: 194
    Oh and that bloke L.Armstrong. What you have to remember only the stupid get caught.
  • TitaniumTitanium Posts: 2,056
    leguape wrote:
    So much nonsense and defamation. Ever considered that the blokes who left and doped did so because they left and discovered that stepping up from domestique in a strong team to team leader in a less focused team was a big jump? No, that would far too obvious an answer, one far more supported by the reality than the fantasy league of defamation.
    Defamation maybe, nonsense, well maybe not.

    Aftere all there's no proof the tooth fairy doesn't exist. So you keep living the dream.
  • drenkromdrenkrom Posts: 1,062
    Jermey Whittle has intimated in "Bad Blood" that there's another USPS rider, who remains anonymous, who has also confessed to using EPO.

    You mean the one who was about to come out like Andreu and got a call reminding him he was about to start a new cycling team and opening his mouth would not be a good idea for the future of that project? A cycling team that's thriving these days, might I add.
  • blazing_saddlesblazing_saddles Posts: 19,306
    drenkrom wrote:
    Jermey Whittle has intimated in "Bad Blood" that there's another USPS rider, who remains anonymous, who has also confessed to using EPO.

    You mean the one who was about to come out like Andreu and got a call reminding him he was about to start a new cycling team and opening his mouth would not be a good idea for the future of that project? A cycling team that's thriving these days, might I add.

    I would imagine so. He's said much to that effect, without actually coming out and admitting it.
    Not the world's best kept secret, in that case. :wink:
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • DaveyLDaveyL Posts: 5,167
    Isn't it fun to be so coy about these things? I'm pretty sure that in "From Lance To Landis" it's fairly explicit that it's Jonathan Vaughters.
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • leguapeleguape Posts: 986
    andyp wrote:
    leguape wrote:
    So much nonsense and defamation. Ever considered that the blokes who left and doped did so because they left and discovered that stepping up from domestique in a strong team to team leader in a less focused team was a big jump? No, that would far too obvious an answer, one far more supported by the reality than the fantasy league of defamation.
    How do you explain Roberto Heras winning the Vuelta whilst riding for USPS then?

    They didn't exactly send him out with a particularly weak team did they as he had both Pena and Rubiera as his domestiques. I've never bought that they doped at USPS and got away with it and then got caught all of a sudden when they left. If you learnt the smarts to keep on beating the testers at one place you're hardly going to elsewhere and not take that knowledge with you.
  • iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    DaveyL wrote:
    Isn't it fun to be so coy about these things? I'm pretty sure that in "From Lance To Landis" it's fairly explicit that it's Jonathan Vaughters.

    I believe JV confesses (ish) in the new issue of Outside magazine
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • blazing_saddlesblazing_saddles Posts: 19,306
    leguape wrote:
    andyp wrote:
    leguape wrote:
    So much nonsense and defamation. Ever considered that the blokes who left and doped did so because they left and discovered that stepping up from domestique in a strong team to team leader in a less focused team was a big jump? No, that would far too obvious an answer, one far more supported by the reality than the fantasy league of defamation.
    How do you explain Roberto Heras winning the Vuelta whilst riding for USPS then?

    They didn't exactly send him out with a particularly weak team did they as he had both Pena and Rubiera as his domestiques. I've never bought that they doped at USPS and got away with it and then got caught all of a sudden when they left. If you learnt the smarts to keep on beating the testers at one place you're hardly going to elsewhere and not take that knowledge with you.

    That just doesn't hold water.
    Heras was not happy with his USPS teams, sent to the Vueltas.
    Plus, If he was clean then, he had a stronger team at Liberty Seguros. So, if he didn't dope at USPS, why dope when you have, by far the strongest team?

    Maybe the fact that they have a clause written into their contracts, that stipulates they can't use Doc Ferrari and have to find an alternative "medicine man", had something to do with it? :roll:

    You want to think Yates was clean? You want to think all the stuff on USPS/DIsco is rubbish? Fine.
    Just don't expect others to be so naive.

    Yates speaking out against teams finding it hard going with the Bio scheme, makes a change from Lance speaking out against the likes of Chrisophe Bassons.
    Now, who was he again?
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • blazing_saddlesblazing_saddles Posts: 19,306
    DaveyL wrote:
    Isn't it fun to be so coy about these things? I'm pretty sure that in "From Lance To Landis" it's fairly explicit that it's Jonathan Vaughters.

    He's even more explicit in, "LA Confidential".
    1999 Tour, the whole team sweating on haematocritic levels, a tenth of a percent or so below 50%.
    Same for his observations upon the amount of Pharmaceuticals on offer at USPS, compared to Credit Agricole.

    Of course, that's if you believe what he says.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • jimmythecuckoojimmythecuckoo Posts: 4,599
    I think Astana are still going to be the most talked about team on Tour this year, even though they aren't there!!!

    For the record, I am trying hard not to think Yates has ever been a bad boy...but
  • leguapeleguape Posts: 986
    leguape wrote:
    andyp wrote:
    leguape wrote:
    So much nonsense and defamation. Ever considered that the blokes who left and doped did so because they left and discovered that stepping up from domestique in a strong team to team leader in a less focused team was a big jump? No, that would far too obvious an answer, one far more supported by the reality than the fantasy league of defamation.
    How do you explain Roberto Heras winning the Vuelta whilst riding for USPS then?

    They didn't exactly send him out with a particularly weak team did they as he had both Pena and Rubiera as his domestiques. I've never bought that they doped at USPS and got away with it and then got caught all of a sudden when they left. If you learnt the smarts to keep on beating the testers at one place you're hardly going to elsewhere and not take that knowledge with you.

    That just doesn't hold water.
    Heras was not happy with his USPS teams, sent to the Vueltas.
    Plus, If he was clean then, he had a stronger team at Liberty Seguros. So, if he didn't dope at USPS, why dope when you have, by far the strongest team?

    Maybe the fact that they have a clause written into their contracts, that stipulates they can't use Doc Ferrari and have to find an alternative "medicine man", had something to do with it? :roll:

    You want to think Yates was clean? You want to think all the stuff on USPS/DIsco is rubbish? Fine.
    Just don't expect others to be so naive.

    Yates speaking out against teams finding it hard going with the Bio scheme, makes a change from Lance speaking out against the likes of Chrisophe Bassons.
    Now, who was he again?

    So in the field of medicine there's only Ferrari who knew how to get it right? Not buying that. Or that a doctor who traded on secrecy wouldn't use tenuous lines in contracts to up his price and keep quiet about it?

    The agreement would have to existed between Ferrari and Tailwind, not between Tailwind and the rider for it to even be enforceable. I'd love to know how Tailwind was going to enforce a breach of contract on people who were not contracted to them without exposing themselves to to acknowledging their use of him.

    I'm not being naive about this, I'm simply questioning how anyone can be so adamant that Armstrong did dope when the case against him as a doper remains as circumstantial in its evidence as the case for him being clean.
  • blazing_saddlesblazing_saddles Posts: 19,306
    Until Fuentes got "stung", none of the sporting docs had been caught.
    The only one to get charged and convicted of anything, prior to OP, was indeed, Michele Ferrari.
    Certain riders, who use certain doctors, have since been caught. This is inevitable, as testing procedures are updated. The vast majority, however, avoid detection, as this Danish study has now highlighted.

    I don't want to re-visit, yet again, the neverending suppostion about LA. However, it exisits, riders associated with him have been caught.

    I read this, posted on another forum, by an American:-
    Motorola got out of the cycling game early on......rumblings of dodgy doping did not sit well with the brass, whether true or not.

    As this person says, it's a speculative theory. However, it's a further connection to Yates.

    All I'm saying he is speculating upon Saunier Duval, just like some of us speculate upon his checkered past.

    As was said on here, already: "People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...."
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • Certain riders, who use certain doctors, have since been caught. This is inevitable, as testing procedures are updated. The vast majority, however, avoid detection, as this Danish study has now highlighted.
    I don't want to re-visit, yet again, the neverending suppostion about LA. However, it exisits, riders associated with him have been caught
    You seem to contradict yourself here, seeming to say the tests both work & do not & guilt by association only is a very dangerous route to go down.

    anyone from Bruyneels team is castigated for double standards the minute they make comment on anything
    Despite the fact that the riders on USPS/Discovery were tested at the races they won or didn't win same as all the other riders in all the other teams you will never convince the detractors that this was because they were clear. Nope its because they had a really clever doctor/s & a better regime than all the other teams This also pre supposes that the testers,(which now seems so) wada/uci/aso with all their staff & experts are not clever or up to date enough to out think one particular team, which makes you wonder what use are they & why are they being touted as the sports saviours? As the FBI recruits the best hackers maybe they, wada etc, should be looking to employ these ex USPS/Discovery doctors & sack the useless buggers they currently employ
    I am always surprised that ex T Mobile riders,doctors, DS's & associates seem not to suffer from the same degree of scepticism or generate the same number of “novels” as the USPS/Discovery etc
    If any one wants to accuse me of being naïve,do so,but I'm not the one believing everything I read in the books by Walsh,Whittle and others which are of coarse the absolute truth & not mostly based on self perpetuating rehashed accusations by the authors, ex employees & ex riders looking for a pay cheque with very little actual evidence to back them
  • blazing_saddlesblazing_saddles Posts: 19,306
    Don't blame me for being contradictory, read the relevant thread and blame the Danes.

    Fillippo Simeoni is the new Italian RR champion. Someone will be pleased. :roll:

    Damiano Cunego is supporting this badge campaign:-
    http://www.dopingfree.org/

    Or should that read "freedoping"? :wink:
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • afx237viafx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Damiano Cunego is supporting this badge campaign:-
    http://www.dopingfree.org/

    Or should that read "freedoping"? :wink:

    PMSL, I love how the badge is winking. No really, I'm doping free, *wink wink* :roll:
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