RLJ meets Critical Mass

Clever Pun

Always Tyred wrote:

Actually, I am quite grateful to rljers.

When I'm patiently waiting on red and someone comes past, hops off the pavement and crosses the junction, it draws all of the ire of the motorists who might otherwise have hated me for simply being there.

Instead, they all think, "All cyclists should be like him."

this... I find a derisory shake of the head helps

Greg T

I don't RLJ as RLJing provides a high visibility proof to other road users that cyclists are "different" and don't follow the rules.

This thinking makes it more likely for drivers to not follow the rules around bikes - "well if they don't care why should I" and therefore makes my life harder.

So saying "I RLJ when it's safe" may be true but it's equally true that it makes it that bit more dangerous for the rest.

You might not drink downstream from your own piss but everyone else does.

iainment

Greg T wrote:

I don't RLJ as RLJing provides a high visibility proof to other road users that cyclists are "different" and don't follow the rules.

This thinking makes it more likely for drivers to not follow the rules around bikes - "well if they don't care why should I" and therefore makes my life harder.

So saying "I RLJ when it's safe" may be true but it's equally true that it makes it that bit more dangerous for the rest.

You might not drink downstream from your own wee-wee but everyone else does.

Well of course we are different - we are cyclists, we are not driving motor vehicles and our experience of the road is different from theirs. It's not surprising then that some come to the conclusion to act differently to vehicle drivers. Rightly, wrongly, legally, illegally whatever but the fact is that the ways that roads are designed and maintained is not conducive to cycling and I'm not surprised that a significant proportion ride in a way that suits their needs. To be honest as far as I am concerned as long as pedestrians are respected and given the right of way I can live with that and don't care if drivers get frustrated by this. They don't like us and whatever we as cyclists do they'll gripe and moan because they think that they are higher up the scale than us and we, and peds, are inconsequentialand to be blamed for their frustrations.

Pip pip

:twisted:

Greg T

iainment wrote:

Well of course we are different - we are cyclists, ..... They don't like us and whatever we as cyclists do they'll gripe and moan because they think that they are higher up the scale than us and we, and peds, are inconsequentialand to be blamed for their frustrations.

Bingo.

In / Out group dynamics in action - you are accepting the label and using it as an excuse

dondare

I find most of the roads that I ride on perfectly suited for cyclists. The only exceptions on my commute are roads with poor surfaces and those with badly designed cycling facilities. Obviously there are some roads that are more dangerous to cycle on than others but these are dangerous to drive on too, remember that cyclists make up less than 5% of all traffic accident victims.
Anyone who rides on the pavement all the time because they believe that this is safer than riding on the road is deluding themselves; and those who claim that they ignore traffic lights because it's safer than obeying them are lying.

sosidge

iainment wrote:

Greg T wrote:

I don't RLJ as RLJing provides a high visibility proof to other road users that cyclists are "different" and don't follow the rules.

This thinking makes it more likely for drivers to not follow the rules around bikes - "well if they don't care why should I" and therefore makes my life harder.

So saying "I RLJ when it's safe" may be true but it's equally true that it makes it that bit more dangerous for the rest.

You might not drink downstream from your own wee-wee but everyone else does.

Well of course we are different - we are cyclists, we are not driving motor vehicles and our experience of the road is different from theirs. It's not surprising then that some come to the conclusion to act differently to vehicle drivers. Rightly, wrongly, legally, illegally whatever but the fact is that the ways that roads are designed and maintained is not conducive to cycling and I'm not surprised that a significant proportion ride in a way that suits their needs. To be honest as far as I am concerned as long as pedestrians are respected and given the right of way I can live with that and don't care if drivers get frustrated by this. They don't like us and whatever we as cyclists do they'll gripe and moan because they think that they are higher up the scale than us and we, and peds, are inconsequentialand to be blamed for their frustrations.

Pip pip

:twisted:

It is idiots like you that are making cycling more dangerous for the rest of us.

Obviously you don't want to hear it because you have already made your mind up that you are "different" and that the rules of law do not apply to you.

So now whenever I go out on my bike I have to contend with motorists who give no space or turn across you at junctions, simply because they were cut up by a RLJ cyclist last week and think we are all self-interested lawbreakers and a nuisance.

Thanks for that.

Plonker.

prj45

Clever Pun wrote:

Always Tyred wrote:

Actually, I am quite grateful to rljers.

When I'm patiently waiting on red and someone comes past, hops off the pavement and crosses the junction, it draws all of the ire of the motorists who might otherwise have hated me for simply being there.

Instead, they all think, "All cyclists should be like him."

this... I find a derisory shake of the head helps

A quick w****r sign behind their back never goes a amiss either.

iainment

sosidge wrote:

iainment wrote:

Greg T wrote:

I don't RLJ as RLJing provides a high visibility proof to other road users that cyclists are "different" and don't follow the rules.

This thinking makes it more likely for drivers to not follow the rules around bikes - "well if they don't care why should I" and therefore makes my life harder.

So saying "I RLJ when it's safe" may be true but it's equally true that it makes it that bit more dangerous for the rest.

You might not drink downstream from your own wee-wee but everyone else does.

Well of course we are different - we are cyclists, we are not driving motor vehicles and our experience of the road is different from theirs. It's not surprising then that some come to the conclusion to act differently to vehicle drivers. Rightly, wrongly, legally, illegally whatever but the fact is that the ways that roads are designed and maintained is not conducive to cycling and I'm not surprised that a significant proportion ride in a way that suits their needs. To be honest as far as I am concerned as long as pedestrians are respected and given the right of way I can live with that and don't care if drivers get frustrated by this. They don't like us and whatever we as cyclists do they'll gripe and moan because they think that they are higher up the scale than us and we, and peds, are inconsequentialand to be blamed for their frustrations.

Pip pip

:twisted:

It is idiots like you that are making cycling more dangerous for the rest of us.

Obviously you don't want to hear it because you have already made your mind up that you are "different" and that the rules of law do not apply to you.

So now whenever I go out on my bike I have to contend with motorists who give no space or turn across you at junctions, simply because they were cut up by a RLJ cyclist last week and think we are all self-interested lawbreakers and a nuisance.

Thanks for that.

Plonker.

Read my posts and then comment. I have never condoned rljing when there is other traffic with the right of way, so my actions would not cut anyone up.

Dipstick.

Greg T

iainment wrote:

Read my posts and then comment. I have never condoned rljing when there is other traffic with the right of way, so my actions would not cut anyone up.

Dipstick.

You don't need to cut anyone up to build the perception.

iainment

Greg T wrote:

iainment wrote:

Read my posts and then comment. I have never condoned rljing when there is other traffic with the right of way, so my actions would not cut anyone up.

Dipstick.

You don't need to cut anyone up to build the perception.

So whatever you or I do doesn't matter then as the perception that cyclists are bad is already fixed?

dondare

If a motorist waiting at a red or a pedestrian contemplating crossing the road sees a cyclist going through then they'll be annoyed with you and with cyclists generally. The motorist, when he overtakes you later is quite likely to pass too close to teach you a lesson, and will behave that way to other cyclists as well because he assumes that we're all the same. Cyclists who attempt to justify illegal riding confirm the prejudices of non-cyclists.
Your actions, even if you perform them safely at the time, will increase the danger to you and all cyclists in the long term.

dondare

iainment wrote:

Greg T wrote:

iainment wrote:

Read my posts and then comment. I have never condoned rljing when there is other traffic with the right of way, so my actions would not cut anyone up.

Dipstick.

You don't need to cut anyone up to build the perception.

So whatever you or I do doesn't matter then as the perception that cyclists are bad is already fixed?

It might take a long time to change people's low opinions of cyclists but if you continue to confirm them then it'll never happen. Also, as cycling becomes popular again if illegal and anti-social behaviour by cyclists is seen to become more rife, then there will be calls to regulate cycling with licences or registration or compulsory insurance, for instance.

iainment

dondare wrote:

iainment wrote:

Greg T wrote:

iainment wrote:

Read my posts and then comment. I have never condoned rljing when there is other traffic with the right of way, so my actions would not cut anyone up.

Dipstick.

You don't need to cut anyone up to build the perception.

So whatever you or I do doesn't matter then as the perception that cyclists are bad is already fixed?

It might take a long time to change people's low opinions of cyclists but if you continue to confirm them then it'll never happen. Also, as cycling becomes popular again if illegal and anti-social behaviour by cyclists is seen to become more rife, then there will be calls to regulate cycling with licences or registration or compulsory insurance, for instance.

I see much more illegal and anti social behaviour by motorists. So why not stop that as well? Or is it easier to take their line and be seen as a good boy?
A significant number of motorists will never respect cyclists, will never treat them fairly, will drive in a way that is potentially and actually dangerous to cyclists, will demand conditions be imposed such as registration etc whatever the cyclist does. Either through ignorance or malice they believe that roads are for them and that cyclists and pedestrians are distinctly second class and only on the road under sufferance.
So I don't see what difference it makes if I go through a redlight when the way is clear and I am not impeding anyone's right of way - pedestrian or motorist.

iainment

dondare wrote:

iainment wrote:

Greg T wrote:

iainment wrote:

Read my posts and then comment. I have never condoned rljing when there is other traffic with the right of way, so my actions would not cut anyone up.

Dipstick.

You don't need to cut anyone up to build the perception.

So whatever you or I do doesn't matter then as the perception that cyclists are bad is already fixed?

It might take a long time to change people's low opinions of cyclists but if you continue to confirm them then it'll never happen. Also, as cycling becomes popular again if illegal and anti-social behaviour by cyclists is seen to become more rife, then there will be calls to regulate cycling with licences or registration or compulsory insurance, for instance.

The low opinion of cyclists will change as more and more people cycle and less drive. At some point there will be a tipping point where the roles will reverse.

Parkey

iainment wrote:

So I don't see what difference it makes if I go through a redlight when the way is clear and I am not impeding anyone's right of way - pedestrian or motorist.

Of course you're all knowing and all seeing. Circumstances could not possibly arise where there is a pedestrian or oncoming vehicle moving with the belief that the traffic signals are giving them a clear path that you aren't aware of.

Keithp88

As I don't live or work in the charming village of London I don't see much of this. Out here in the colonies we get up and out in time to get to work without having to do it. Try leaving ten minutes earlier or getting a job closer to home

woodford2barbican

Keithp88 wrote:

As I don't live or work in the charming village of London I don't see much of this. Out here in the colonies we get up and out in time to get to work without having to do it. Try leaving ten minutes earlier or getting a job closer to home

Even if you are late - it is only work you are going to, why rush?

RLJ'ing is just indicative of the same attitude that driver's using mobile phones display - overwhelming self-importance.

If you were that important that you needed to jump red lights, they would give you a siren and blue flashing lights.

Twunts the lots of them.

dondare

Motorists are in the majority, the police, the cops, the magistrates, the media and the public are predominantly motorists and will unthinkingly forgive themselves whilst damning cyclists for lesser offences. However, motoring, for all the power of it's lobby, is massively regulated.
Increasing numbers of cyclists might make cycling more acceptable but if it leads to larger numbers of cyclists breaking the law it could also lead to the introduction of regulations which at the moment we don't have to bother with.
Meanwhile my argument still stands, bad behaviour by cyclists if it is seen at all will lead directly to intolerance and aggression directed against cyclists.

iainment

Parkey wrote:

iainment wrote:

So I don't see what difference it makes if I go through a redlight when the way is clear and I am not impeding anyone's right of way - pedestrian or motorist.

Of course you're all knowing and all seeing. Circumstances could not possibly arise where there is a pedestrian or oncoming vehicle moving with the belief that the traffic signals are giving them a clear path that you aren't aware of.

I only go if the way is clear and I am not taking anyone's right of way. If there is anyone or anything that has the right of way then I don't go. I don't just cruise through without looking and with no regard for the safety of myself and other road users.
I'm not sure if your anger at me is correctly placed.

BTW sarcasm doesn't become you.

woodford2barbican

iainment wrote:

Parkey wrote:

iainment wrote:

So I don't see what difference it makes if I go through a redlight when the way is clear and I am not impeding anyone's right of way - pedestrian or motorist.

Of course you're all knowing and all seeing. Circumstances could not possibly arise where there is a pedestrian or oncoming vehicle moving with the belief that the traffic signals are giving them a clear path that you aren't aware of.

I only go if the way is clear and I am not taking anyone's right of way. If there is anyone or anything that has the right of way then I don't go. I don't just cruise through without looking and with no regard for the safety of myself and other road users.
I'm not sure if your anger at me is correctly placed.

BTW sarcasm doesn't become you.

However, your self-righteousness & sense of entitlement fits you like a glove!

iainment

woodford2barbican wrote:

iainment wrote:

Parkey wrote:

iainment wrote:

So I don't see what difference it makes if I go through a redlight when the way is clear and I am not impeding anyone's right of way - pedestrian or motorist.

Of course you're all knowing and all seeing. Circumstances could not possibly arise where there is a pedestrian or oncoming vehicle moving with the belief that the traffic signals are giving them a clear path that you aren't aware of.

I only go if the way is clear and I am not taking anyone's right of way. If there is anyone or anything that has the right of way then I don't go. I don't just cruise through without looking and with no regard for the safety of myself and other road users.
I'm not sure if your anger at me is correctly placed.

BTW sarcasm doesn't become you.

However, your self-righteousness & sense of entitlement fits you like a glove!

I don't think I am self righteous, I have never advocated anyone doing anything unsafe, never said anything other than proceed safely, always advocated courtesy to others on the road, am not trying to put myself up as a role model, just saying that sometimes you can jump a red light and no one is worse off for it. Sacrilege I know to many on here.

Not sure what you mean by entitlement but again I have said that I am aware of what the law says and would accept the consequences if stopped by the police, I don't feel entitled to do anything on the road as letting your guard down and feeling entitled would be dangerous.