Is there a way to tighten the rear derailler tension?

donrhummy

I just switched from an Ultegra chain to a dura-ace chain and the new chain (while the same exact length) is definitely looser. As a result, I've been getting much less crisp shifting and some slight skipping occasionally when shifting from the big front ring to the middle ring.

What's the best way to solve this?
Should I make the chain smaller (the last chain worked perfectly at this length though)?
Or can I increase the derailler tension?

Has anyone else noticed this?

nicklouse

first make sure that the chain is the correct length.

http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=26

how to adjust the mechs

rear
http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=64

front
http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=75

but if things were correct before there should be no need to change.

rustychisel

I don't understand how a chain of correct and same length could be 'looser'. If you've used a Connex link to join it up it's at least one link longer, for example, or possibly two, since you need inner-to-inner to use a joining link. What I wouldn't do is mess with the tension adjustment on the rear mech, IME the spring last longer and better than the jockey wheel teeth and other bits. I suggest improper installation is your problem.

donrhummy

I think it's maybe a bit longer because the other one had stretched just slightly and this one matched up with it (and maybe even 1/8-1/2 inch longer. So I think I'm going to remove a link. I just want to be sure since I can't really put it back in without risking the integrity I assume, right?

rustychisel

Sounds like its too long, I suggest reading online instructions on how to correctly instal a chain of the proper length, then join it with a Connex link or Power link. They work well and avoid poor pin driving skills.

peanut

Yes the tension spring in the rear mech will eventually lose its tension .Why don't you test the tension against a new one ?
The reason your chain doesn't seem to be so tight is probably largely due to the tightness of the links and grease etc compared with your old chain
I would just buy a new mech if its over a year or so old. A replacement spring is probably available but you really do not want to be taking a mech apart trust me :shock: :twisted:

rustychisel

peanut wrote:

Yes the tension spring in the rear mech will eventually lose its tension .Why don't you test the tension against a new one ?
The reason your chain doesn't seem to be so tight is probably largely due to the tightness of the links and grease etc compared with your old chain
I would just buy a new mech if its over a year or so old. A replacement spring is probably available but you really do not want to be taking a mech apart trust me :shock: :twisted:

Disagree. I've had a Ultegra mech working flawlessly for 5 years. I WOULD NOT look at replacement in the first instance, especially since the symptoms suggest something entirely other as the likely cause.

Incidentally, the last time I took a mech apart it wasn't too hard at all, needs keen observation to see where things slot together, but the tension etc is factory preset and there's little reason to bugger around with it.

Talking about grease and springs will not address the root cause, I strongly suggest.

aracer

donrhummy wrote:

I think it's maybe a bit longer because the other one had stretched just slightly and this one matched up with it (and maybe even 1/8-1/2 inch longer. So I think I'm going to remove a link. I just want to be sure since I can't really put it back in without risking the integrity I assume, right?

So you measured the length with a tape measure rather than counting links? :shock:

Garry H

aracer wrote:

donrhummy wrote:

I think it's maybe a bit longer because the other one had stretched just slightly and this one matched up with it (and maybe even 1/8-1/2 inch longer. So I think I'm going to remove a link. I just want to be sure since I can't really put it back in without risking the integrity I assume, right?

So you measured the length with a tape measure rather than counting links? :shock:

Indeed :shock:

peanut

rustychisel wrote:

peanut wrote:

Yes the tension spring in the rear mech will eventually lose its tension .Why don't you test the tension against a new one ?
The reason your chain doesn't seem to be so tight is probably largely due to the tightness of the links and grease etc compared with your old chain
I would just buy a new mech if its over a year or so old. A replacement spring is probably available but you really do not want to be taking a mech apart trust me :shock: :twisted:

Disagree. I've had a Ultegra mech working flawlessly for 5 years. I WOULD NOT look at replacement in the first instance, especially since the symptoms suggest something entirely other as the likely cause.

Incidentally, the last time I took a mech apart it wasn't too hard at all, needs keen observation to see where things slot together, but the tension etc is factory preset and there's little reason to bugger around with it.

Talking about grease and springs will not address the root cause, I strongly suggest.

thats fine I'm happy for you to disagree thats what a forum is all about so long as you don't make it personal of course.

The fact that you didn't find it difficult to take apart doesn't necessarily follow that its easy for every other cyclist does it !?

I personally wouldn't waste my time on an old mech that only costs £30 or less. My time is too important to waste trying to make something last a bit longer in order to save a few quid

edit:-There is a lot of controversy about chain care and I am not so sure about the following statement now that I have read a bit around the subject so I am going to withdraw it subject to my being able to verify it or not .

[Chances are that the op hasn't de-greased the chain properly. They are packed in grease for transit and storage to stop rusting just like cars they need to be de-greased and oiled before use]

James_London

peanut wrote:

Chances are that the op hasn't de-greased the chain properly. They are packed in grease for transit and storage to stop rusting just like cars they need to be de-greased and oiled before use

A factory greasing is the best greasing your chain will ever get. You don't need any other lubrication for the first 200km in normal conditions.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chains.html for more than you ever wanted to know on the subject

Peculiar you're prepared to waste valuable time de-greasing your £10 chain. ;-)

Garry H

peanut wrote:

[
thats fine I'm happy for you to disagree thats what a forum is all about so long as you don't make it personal of course.

The fact that you didn't find it difficult to take apart doesn't necessarily follow that its easy for every other cyclist does it !?

I personally wouldn't waste my time on an old mech that only costs £30 or less. My time is too important to waste trying to make something last a bit longer in order to save a few quid

Chances are that the op hasn't de-greased the chain properly. They are packed in grease for transit and storage to stop rusting just like cars they need to be de-greased and oiled before use

But how would this make the chain looser? The fact that the tension was ok with the old chain, but not with the new, would suggest that the chain isn't the same length. Lubricating it for storage, or for riding, what's the difference? I've never de-greased a new chain before usage. In fact I read somewhere (Sheldon Brown??) that the factory grease is the best it'll probably evere see.

Why buy a new rear mech? The chain is the only changing factor. Your time may be too precious to waste for you, but he'll be quicker checking the chain again, than he will be popping to the shop to buy a new rear mech. Perhaps you just have too much money!!

peanut

the factory grease isn't a lubricating grease it is a preserving grease .They are quite differant things.Do the chain manufacturers recommend keeping the grease in use ? I don't know as my new chain came OEM without box and blurb

A new chain has tighter links because new tolerances are closer than worn links . Add a stiff grease into the equation and you are not likely to get a nice smooth easy flowing chain like the old one was.
The new chain may have put extra tension on the mech I don't know

I am not saying this is the cause I am just throwing in some fresh ideas for the OP to consider like we all are. I am certainly not looking to argue with you or anyone else.

If you do not agree with my suggestions it is not necessary to challenge them just because they are not the same as yours.I am not saying anyone elses ideas are not equally valid

peanut

James_London wrote:

[

Peculiar you're prepared to waste valuable time de-greasing your £10 chain. ;-)

proper preparation is never wasted time James did you not realise that ? :roll:

here is the link to Sheldon's page about chains. very interesting reading.
I think where he talks about lubricating grease I am not sure that that is the same as the grease that comes on most chains from China or wherever these days . I assume not but looking for some confirmation.
Sheldon Brown chains

James_London

peanut wrote:

James_London wrote:

[

Peculiar you're prepared to waste valuable time de-greasing your £10 chain. ;-)

proper preparation is never wasted time James did you not realise that ? :roll:

here is the link to Sheldon's page about chains. very interesting reading.
I think where he talks about lubricating grease I am not sure that that is the same as the grease that comes on most chains from China or wherever these days . I assume not but looking for some confirmation.
Sheldon Brown chains

This was the bit from Sheldon Brown - rest his soul - I was alluding to:

Factory Lube
New chains come pre-lubricated with a grease-type lubricant which has been installed at the factory. This is an excellent lubricant, and has been made to permeate all of the internal interstices in the chain.
This factory lube is superior to any lube that you can apply after the fact.

Some people make the bad mistake of deliberately removing this superior lubricant. Don't do this!

The factory lubricant all by itself is usually good for several hundred miles of service if the bike is not ridden in wet or dusty conditions. It is best not to apply any sort of lube to a new chain until it is clearly needed, because any wet lube you can apply will dilute the factory lube

peanut

well done James The piece that you have posted (without credit ) is from the link that I provided.
I know it was what you were referring to .That is why I posted the link so that everyone could read it for themselves and form their own conclusions rather than accepting someone elses interpretation


However not every chain in the world comes in the same identical condition or with the same lubricant
You can't just take something out of a particular context and lay it down like its some kind of magic rule that must always be true in every case . I prefer to keep an open and enquiring mind on all things

James_London

The link to Sheldon Brown was in my post of 5.54pm but perhaps you didn't notice as you provided the same link again in your later post. My quote is credited to Sheldon Brown.

Still, we're getting a little OT so I won't waste any more space on the board. Enjoy your chain care routine, Peanut, and I will enjoy mine. :-)

peanut

Garry H wrote:

Perhaps you just have too much money!!

Gary I appreciate that your opinion is differant from mine and I am happy that it is however I have not made any personal remarks about you.
The personal remark that you have made about me I find offensive and unnecessary and it contributes nothing to the discussion about chains and mechs. Lets try keep the thread on track shall we

st68

i put a new chain on my bike the other week and had the same problems so i replaced the rear cassette hey presto now its as sweet as nut now 8)

rustychisel

To the OP: I hope you get your problem sorted quickly and cheaply. That is all. If anyone thinks my posting in disagreement is offensive, I apologise, but I dislike reading what I consider poor and potentially costly advice. There is nothing personal in this. That is all.