Nelson Mandela's 90th Birthday Concert

spen666

Firstly, I'm not complaining about a concert to celebrate this milestone.


Can anyone tell me why the concert and celebrations are being held in the UK? Why is it not his own country leading the celebrations?

What is the connection between the UK and Nelson Mandela to justify the celebrations being here rather than in South Africa


As I said at the start, I am not complaining about the fact there is a concert or that it is here in the UK, I am merely curious as to why its here and not in South Africa

top_bhoy

The cynic in me says Gordon Brown and New Labour need to generate good publicity and what could be better than more photo opportunities with a true world Statesman.

spen666

Top_Bhoy wrote:

The cynic in me says Gordon Brown and New Labour need to generate good publicity and what could be better than more photo opportunities with a true world Statesman.

I wondered about that but:

a) I am not aware of Government involvement in concert etc

b) why would South Africa give up opportunity to stage such celebrations

c) Why would Nelson Mandel want event here, instead of in South Africa

bagpusscp

The term having a neighbour from hell comes to mind.

robmanic1

I expect he comes here for the climate

iainment

It's because of the 70th birthday concert for him. That was here - don't you remember "Free Nelson Mandela" by the Specials.

CHRISNOIR

Queen. Leona Lewis. Annie Lennox.

Has the man not suffered enough?

robmanic1

CHRISNOIR wrote:

Queen. Leona Lewis. Annie Lennox.

Has the man not suffered enough?

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, PLEASE LOCK ME UP AGAIN!!! LOL

spen666

iainment wrote:

... don't you remember "Free Nelson Mandela" by the Specials.

I got mine from Esso for 6 tokens & a postal order for 22p to cover package & postage

robmanic1

spen666 wrote:

iainment wrote:

... don't you remember "Free Nelson Mandela" by the Specials.

I got mine from Esso for 6 tokens & a postal order for 22p to cover package & postage

Mine came instead of a crappy bottle opener from Wiggle

bigjim

I'm not sure about all this Nelson Mandella hype. Although he seems a nice old guy. But correct me if I am wrong. Was he not an ANC activist in his youth and responsible for a fair amount of violence, bombings etc?

Jim.

st68

its because were british & we cant keep our f***in noses out of other peoples business & then we wonder why most other countries f***in hate us :x

Gavin Gilbert

bigjim wrote:

I'm not sure about all this Nelson Mandella hype. Although he seems a nice old guy. But correct me if I am wrong. Was he not an ANC activist in his youth and responsible for a fair amount of violence, bombings etc?

Jim.

the line between Terrorist and Freedom Fighter depends largely on what side of the status quo you view things from. When this forum was A Better Place we had many debates on the subject.

However, no sane person would argue that apartheid wasn't an evil system. And no reasonable person would argue that the use of political violence wasn't justified in the fight against it. So I wager £5 that Offthebackmadman will be along within the next half page to do just that

spen666

Gavin Gilbert wrote:

bigjim wrote:

I'm not sure about all this Nelson Mandella hype. Although he seems a nice old guy. But correct me if I am wrong. Was he not an ANC activist in his youth and responsible for a fair amount of violence, bombings etc?

Jim.

the line between Terrorist and Freedom Fighter depends largely on what side of the status quo you view things from. When this forum was A Better Place we had many debates on the subject.

However, no sane person would argue that apartheid wasn't an evil system. And no reasonable person would argue that the use of political violence wasn't justified in the fight against it. So I wager £5 that Offthebackmadman will be along within the next half page to do just that

I can't concur with your comments re violence being justified

pneumatic

Hiroshima?

shazzz

I thought Queen were universally reviled for playing Sun City in the days of apartheid???

CHRISNOIR

shazzz wrote:

I thought Queen were universally reviled for playing Sun City in the days of apartheid???

You're not wrong, indeed they did. And I'm not sure they ever apologised.

clanton

bigjim wrote:

I'm not sure about all this Nelson Mandella hype. Although he seems a nice old guy. But correct me if I am wrong. Was he not an ANC activist in his youth and responsible for a fair amount of violence, bombings etc?

Jim.

He is by no means a perfect man. But this is the man who was in jail for 27 years and then came down onto a rugby field in front of 60 000 white South Africans wearing the jersey with the Springbok emblem personifying everything the white Afrikaners hold dear with the captain's number on the back to shake the captains hand. And the crowd cheered him for it. He is a true statesman and in my mind a hero.

Another example - he publicly declared that his own son had died of AIDS in a country which is trying hard to deny the very existence of the disease, where the disease carries a massive stigma, and at the very time Mbeki was trying to con the world that AIDS was not caused by HIV and retrovirals were not needed.

Read his book, and better yet read the book written by his jailer.

robmanic1

Are we having a whip-round then?

iainment

bigjim wrote:

I'm not sure about all this Nelson Mandella hype. Although he seems a nice old guy. But correct me if I am wrong. Was he not an ANC activist in his youth and responsible for a fair amount of violence, bombings etc?

Jim.

Yawn, unlike our modern role models Bush, Blair etc with blood up to their elbows chasing oil.
At least any violence committed by the ANC was because of the greater violence done to the majority population by the apartheid regime.

Stewie Griffin

spen666 wrote:

Gavin Gilbert wrote:

bigjim wrote:

I'm not sure about all this Nelson Mandella hype. Although he seems a nice old guy. But correct me if I am wrong. Was he not an ANC activist in his youth and responsible for a fair amount of violence, bombings etc?

Jim.

the line between Terrorist and Freedom Fighter depends largely on what side of the status quo you view things from. When this forum was A Better Place we had many debates on the subject.

However, no sane person would argue that apartheid wasn't an evil system. And no reasonable person would argue that the use of political violence wasn't justified in the fight against it. So I wager £5 that Offthebackmadman will be along within the next half page to do just that

I can't concur with your comments re violence being justified

Steve Biko organised non violent protests, they smashed his head in. When they finally accepted that maybe they had over done smashing his head in, they drove him to another prison with a hospital so that he might receive treatment for his injuries, 1000 miles away. He died shortly afterward, the Police claimed he died due to a hunger strike.

If this Country were to be taken over by another and the indiginous folk oppressed to the extent that people under Apartheid were, I wouldnt be waving a placard and singing "what do we want? Freedom, when do we want it? now" while ducking from a man shooting at me or beating me with a large stick. I would be a highly commited "terrorist" instead.

Who does the singing at a Queen performance now :? ?

pneumatic

Stewie Griffin wrote:

If this Country were to be taken over by another and the indiginous folk oppressed to the extent that people under Apartheid were, I wouldnt be waving a placard and singing "what do we want? Freedom, when do we want it? now" while ducking from a man shooting at me or beating me with a large stick. I would be a highly commited "terrorist" instead.

Who does the singing at a Queen performance now :? ?

1. Unfortunately some people in the colonised parts of the United? Kingdom use this logic to send letter bombs.

2. Paul Rogers (ex Free) - which is an irony:

ex prisoner seranaded by ex free person.

spen666

shazzz wrote:

I thought Queen were universally reviled for playing Sun City in the days of apartheid???

That was down to that evil Freddie Mercury character - he forced the others to play there against their will

Its ok now as he is no longer in the band

spen666

Re Nelson Mandela - INTERNATIONAL statesman

He as an earlier poster referred to achieved the impossible in taking SA into majority rule without the widely predicted bloodshed. How he did that is too his eternal credit. He achieved the impossible and it can never be understated how great this achievement was.

That is on a domestic stage. What has he done to be called an international statesman?

clanton

spen666 wrote:

Re Nelson Mandela - INTERNATIONAL statesman

He as an earlier poster referred to achieved the impossible in taking SA into majority rule without the widely predicted bloodshed. How he did that is too his eternal credit. He achieved the impossible and it can never be understated how great this achievement was.

That is on a domestic stage. What has he done to be called an international statesman?

He negotiated the trial of the Libyan Lockerbie Bombers.
He has supported various international charities and movements such as SOS children, Make Poverty History
He has been active in combatting AIDS on an international level, has spoken at international AIDS conferences
He has been an outpsoken critic of the Iraq war
He has publicly criticised Robert Mugabe on more than one occasion and for a number of years - was in fact the first notable black leader to do so.

clanton

He also has a spider named after him.

spen666

I forgot his greatest achievement to date- getting divorced from that thug winnie


I never realised his part in the Locerbie trial.

I have never heard his comments re Iraq, not until this week re Mugabe

clanton

From Wikipedia (so it must be true)
In 2003 Mandela criticised the foreign policy of the George W. Bush administration in a number of speeches. Criticising the lack of UN involvement in the decision to begin the War in Iraq, he said, "It is a tragedy, what is happening, what Bush is doing. But Bush is now undermining the United Nations." Mandela stated he would support action against Iraq only if it is ordered by the UN. Mandela also insinuated that Bush may have been motivated by racism in not following the UN and its secretary-general Kofi Annan on the issue of the war. "Is it because the secretary-general of the United Nations is now a black man? They never did that when secretary-generals were white".[45]

He urged the people of the U.S. to join massive protests against Bush and called on world leaders, especially those with vetoes in the UN Security Council, to oppose him. "What I am condemning is that one power, with a president who has no foresight, who cannot think properly, is now wanting to plunge the world into a holocaust." He attacked the United States for its record on human rights and for dropping atomic bombs on Japan during World War II. "If there is a country that has committed unspeakable atrocities in the world, it is the United States of America. They don't care."[45]

As a member of the United States House of Representatives in 1986, Dick Cheney had voted against a congressional resolution calling for Mandela's release from prison. In 2002, Mandela called Cheney a "dinosaur."[46]

passout

Answer A)
The UK supported him more in his struggle than any other country. Nowhere is he held in higher esteem than here.

Answer
Winnie will be going to the party in SA.

bishbish

Nelson served his time and, after being released has not re offended
so, prison works.
I hope the folk in zimbabwe are enjoying their independance it must be fantastic for them being free from that evil ian smith and the common wealth
must not say

told you so

reutercrooks

well, i still would not like to go there for a holiday.