Cycle Lanes

carl_p

Shamefully I got rather annoyed at a cyclist on the way home from work in my car tonight. The reason being a cyclist was taking up a rather a lot of room on the road whilst there was a purpose built cycle lane to the left of him.

The guy was all kitted out, smart sports bike, centre arm rest, or what ever it is called, and going quite quickly. Sadly not quickly enough for the build up of traffic behind him and white van man in front of me was itching to take him out.

I wasn't annoyed so much by the hold up but by the fact a cycle lane was available which this guy ignored. The cycle lane lane in question is a purpose built glorified pavement built very recently to increase the safety of cyclists on an otherwise busy road.

I guess this guy felt he was unsuitably dressed and ill equipped to slum it in a cycle lane but to my mind that is exactly where he should have been regardless of the relative speed he was travelling. I'm new to cycling and will shortly be getting my first proper racing bike so I would be interested in your thoughts here. Even though we might be travelling a bit more quickly than the average cyclist should we not be using cycle lanes when available?

gkerr4

he doesn't have to use the cycle lane - and the best place for him is on the road.

sorry but imo - patience is all that is required here.

pigeon42

Have you looked at the ease of getting on and off this particular cycle path? I go by a couple of stretches of on-pavement cycle path on my route to work, but choose not to use them. Not being belligerent, but because I personally feel they're more likely to put me in a risky situation by using them - they're only on one-side of the road, which means crossing traffic to get onto them, and where you leave the cycle path and rejoin the road, there are bends and lots of lovely shrubs, which mean the visibility is useless (for me to see cars coming, and for them to see me).

gematkinson

er no offense but id be on the road too if i was out for a fast ride as this guy obviously was. how often have you been confined to a cycle lane only to get stuck behind some biddy on a freakin pashley or something going about 3mph?

you said he was going quite fast so in my opinion its better to be on the road with the faster moving traffic.

just my two cents

Lagavulin

Carl_P wrote:

Even though we might be travelling a bit more quickly than the average cyclist should we not be using cycle lanes when available?

In my experience using cycle lanes on road bikes is just asking for bother. I may just be unfortunate in that the three nearby councils poorly maintain them but they’re invariably strewn with glass, dog shit and other undesirables.

I find there are a small minority of drivers who feel it is their duty to make me aware of a cycle path on for which I have a suitable gesture.

redddraggon

If you're not an experienced cyclist, you wouldn't understand how crap cycle lanes are, and how much of a waste of space they are. I'm sure the cyclist wasn't taking the piss.

They are normally full of puncture causing crap, and are often narrower than they should be.

There are some cycles near me that I can't use - they are the width of drain covers, which means that I have to swerve around every sunken drain cover even if I wasn't already banging my pedals on the curb. The council also seem to have surfaces the main bit of the road properly, but seemed to have forgotten about the cycle lane leaving it rutted and potholed. In my experience most cycle lanes are like that - you are really suggesting that I use my bike (often more expensive than the tin cans that pass me) on such a pile of crap?

You'll learn as you do more road cycling that cycle lanes do cyclists more harm than good - drivers are largely ignorant to the piles of crap they are (as you found today). It doesn't really matter what drivers think are "perfectly good cycle lanes" as they're not the ones riding on them.

redddraggon

Oh and I should have added:

A roadie on a road bike should be a freakin' road, not a freakin' path.

oldwelshman

Carl_P wrote:

. I'm new to cycling and will shortly be getting my first proper racing bike so I would be interested in your thoughts here. Even though we might be travelling a bit more quickly than the average cyclist should we not be using cycle lanes when available?

I think we can see your new to cycling or you would not have asked the question
Good luck on your new bike and you will soon be able to answer the question yourself.
I was recently on a 60 mile ride the day before a sportive and a sports car pulled up beside me to enquire why I was not using the "cycle track" next to the road !!
I politely told the occupants that as the "track was only 200m long and had lots of flints and glass on it, and the fact I was doing 60 miles, I would not be using it, but thanked them for pointing it out. They swore at me before driving off so I politley told them to go fxk themselves

Then 20 miles down the road, I was on a main wide single carriage way, going downhill, between 40 and 45 mph for a mile and was being constanlty beeped at by a white van behind me. He passed me shouting obsenities and waving at me.
I ignored him as I knew there were lights soon with traffic build up.
So in the queue I caught up with him and asked him what his problem was?
His reply? " I am not allowed on that road, especially as I was holding him up"

After a heated argument where I pointed out I have as much right as him to be on the road, and following a heated argument where he refused to leave his van to discuss it further, he drove off embarrassed after several motorists agreed with my point of view, especially as he was now holding up the traffic.

To summarise:
We have every right to cycle on any road we are legally allowed to and are not duty bound to cycle on unsuitable cycle paths.

Question to you:
Why the impatience whilst waiting to pass the cyclist, did it add an extra hour or so to your journey? Or more realistically at most 30 seconds?
Was your journey an emergency where you needed to get to destination ASAP?
If not, show a little patience.

carl_p

Interesting comments and frankly I'm not surprised. I think the chap didn't care to use the lane as it would have upset his rythm getting on and off it and is no more than half a mile in length anyway. I should point out this is a rural B road not your gutter width urban track and about 6 foot wide. Being an inexperienced roadie I would have used the lane especially during a busy period.

I'll be using it for a few sprints when I get me new bike (during a quiet period of course) as it's only a mile or so from my home and is super smooth

Bronzie

Nicely put Welshie

bubblin

Can you point out this path on google maps so we can give a better opinion?

chuckcork

If the cycle lane was only half a mile long, and the rider was going quite fast on a road bike, then he would be at the other end of it in well under 2 minutes.

And when you say half a mile long, is that including or excluding any conflict points where he would have to give way to other traffic?

In my experience of London cycling, glorified footpaths are invariably used as footpath, skateboard tracks, parking spots for builders vans (and anyone else) etc. I'm not surprised he chose not to use them.

deal

lets hope this isnt it

[img]http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pete.meg/wcc/facility-of-the-month/teddington-fence.jpg[/img ps. image from[/img]here

carl_p

" Question to you:
Why the impatience whilst waiting to pass the cyclist, did it add an extra hour or so to your journey? Or more realistically at most 30 seconds?
Was your journey an emergency where you needed to get to destination ASAP?
If not, show a little patience.[/quote]"

Not annoyed because he was holding me up but of the perception this gives motorists of cyclists. When I got behind him I was more interested in clocking his speed and riding style!

I'm actually a very patient driver, sympathetic to cyclists, but feel a bit of commonsense needs to prevail during drive time. It's a 60 mph stretch of road, flat and straight, which is probably why the cycle lane was put there. Perhaps I'll get knocked of my bike one day, but it won't be there.

Lagavulin

Here's an example of one not too far from me on the B1298. I mean what's the bloody point in those?

oldwelshman

Personally I try to avoid such roads and I am lucky that I only have to cycle a mile from my home to be on open roads.
If we had "real" cycle lanes like they have in Holland I am sure "regular" cyclists would use them. Unfortunately ours tend to be "token" lanes which go no where, too short, used for everything else, not easily accessible and often covered in puncture material.
If you do have a go sprinting on one, be careful you do not puncture and come off at speed, or maybe hit some one riding down it in a shopping trolley

Bronzie

Carl_P wrote:

Perhaps I'll get knocked of my bike one day, but it won't be there.

God forbid, but the chances of coming into conflict on a "psychle-path" with a pedestrian or other cyclist are probably higher than that of being hit by a vehicle, especially if people like you are using it for sprint training.

At least on the road, there are set rules on how to behave, even if some choose to ignore them.

CrookedCucumber

There's a nice cycle lane on part of the Watford road between Watford and St Albans. It's about five feet wide, reasonably surfaced, and distinctively coloured. It's wide enough for one cyclist to overtake another.

I point out this particular one because it's the only adequate cycle lane I know of within a ten mile radius of my house. And even that one is frequently unusable because some stupid wonker has parked a car in it. I guess that's a problem with nice wide cycle lanes.

I think cycle lanes are a good idea in cities, for commuting and shopping and stuff like that. The problem is that space is often restricted on this kind of road so cycle lanes are hard to install. Consequently, it's much easier for local authorities to pay lip service to the idea of cycle lanes by installing them where they're not really needed, like on dual carriageways like the A41. If you need a cycle lane, you shouldn't be cycling on the A41, in my view.

Sea_Green_Incorruptible

Agree with most of the above posters. The one other thing I'd add is that under most circumstances, riding in a cycle path that is too narrow encourages car drivers to take a chance and pass close in an effort to pass you. If you ride further into the road then this forces them to treat you like another vehicle (which of course you are) and think about the manaeuvre they have to make to pass you - much safer.

Steve_F

Not to mention the abuse you can get from the dregs of society dragging their 5 kids behind them shouting at you that you shouldn't be using a pavement when there are children around - there's a big picture of a bike painted on half of it and a walker on the other, just keep little Brittney out of my F*IN way!

A lot of the time there are also pedestrian crossings where you have to stop and wait where as the road has a roundabout or lights that get much better priority.

stevec205gti

I have a shared pavement/cylce path I don't ride on on my way too and from work. It too is about 1/2 mile long and has a roundabout at each end. If I was to use the cycle path to its full extent I would have to pull in to the side of the road before the roundabout, cross the road across one side of the road braking from 60 to turn right at the roundabout, cross the other side of the road across the traffic accelrating blind off the roundabout, cycle 50yds up the road then try and do the same process the other side of the roundabout. I then can't join the flow of traffic at the end of the cycle path as I need to pull into the road before the second roundabout.

I'f I was coming fromt he other direction there's no way of getting across to the cycle lane in the first place!

To most motorists this is an inconvenience to them as some of them have to slow as a bike and car don't fit between the two traffic islands on the road. To the cyclist this is a damn sight safer than trying to cross two very busy pieces of tarmac in cycling shoes. Also, i can get round the first righthand roundabout quicker than most cars. As you'll find as you ride more, just because you've seen the cycle lane it doesn't mean it's safer to use than staying on the road!!!

Mossrider

Here's my favourite in Aberdare.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&g ... iwloc=addr


You may not be able to see it (you'd miss it on a bike too). It's just inside where the lorry is parked. Basically you ride along the main road beside parked cars. To your left there is a gap (after the red car) where some businesses have a tiny forecourt, you swing left on to the forecourt (thus having to drop immediately left after the parked car. The path then lasts 15 feet, coming to a stop immediately in front of the next parked car! Note how the delivery lorry has parked directly beside the cycle lane, completely obscuring it and potentially blocking the exit.

On the opposite side of the road is a pavement which is marked up as a cycle path, but immediately beside the white bicycle floor marker, is a "cyclists dismount" sign. Confused? I just ride on the road...

Why bother?

rjcastillo

I'm afraid I'm with Carl_P on this. As a cyclist/motorist/biker I'd like to think I can see from all aspects. IMO we should all respect each other and not hinder each other unnecessarily. This for me includes:

- Using cycle lanes whenever possible (I ride a roadbike and accept that some are hernia-enducing!).

- Be defensively dominant without being a hindrance (i.e. passing parked cars, get in to an overtake position early enough not to be sandwiched in to the car boot but place youself in to a convenient gap in the moving traffic).

- If filtering down big gaps and there's a motorbike filter faster, let his through (I do this and, when on a motorbike, I always thanks cyclists for their courtesy).

- Act like traffic, not pedestrians (this is my zebra crossing/red light jumping soapbox!).


I know Carl_P may have lost no more than 30 seconds but I can well understand the frustration it caused him and probably many of the other cars in his situation at the time (those to whom a cycle lane isn't a pretty green parking bay).

redddraggon

rjcastillo wrote:

- Using cycle lanes whenever possible

No, no, no and no. You should have written:

- Using cycling lanes whenever appropriate.

(It's just a shame that most of the time it's not appropriate)

biondino

There is an argument to be had that if the cyclist had been holding up traffic before he reached the cycle lane, he should have used the cycle lane (slowing down if necessary) to let the buildup of traffic past, like a tractor would/should, especially since it's a 60mph road.

Nuggs

biondino wrote:

There is an argument to be had that if the cyclist had been holding up traffic before he reached the cycle lane, he should have used the cycle lane (slowing down if necessary) to let the buildup of traffic past, like a tractor would/should, especially since it's a 60mph road.

Why? Under the HWC, cars and bicycles have equal rights to their own piece of road.

madturkey

I think a lot of cycle lanes are put in place to give cyclists the option of cycling somewhere away from traffic - i.e. to increase the numbers of cyclists. Not to move all cyclists away from traffic.

Near Epsom there is a stretch of dual carrigeway where in one direction one lane has been converted to a cycle lane. There are also separate cycle lanes on the pavement. So, the local authority is obviously not expecting ALL cyclists to use the cycle pavement.

I use cycle lanes if I'm ambling along to get from A-B in a relaxed fashion. I'll not use them if a) I'm training, b) I'm in a hurry or c) they're covered in rubbish. Sadly c) is the most common occurence.

biondino

Nuggs wrote:

biondino wrote:

There is an argument to be had that if the cyclist had been holding up traffic before he reached the cycle lane, he should have used the cycle lane (slowing down if necessary) to let the buildup of traffic past, like a tractor would/should, especially since it's a 60mph road.

Why? Under the HWC, cars and bicycles have equal rights to their own piece of road.

Because regardless of your rights, and regardless of what you're riding/driving, if you are holding up a whole queue of faster traffic when you could easily and quickly let them through you're being extremely thoughtless!

If they could overtake you anyway, you may still choose to let them through via the bike lane as having impatient traffic squeeze by on a 60mph road doesn't sound much fun to me.

babyshambles

Cycle lanes in this country are a complete waste of time for a training ride. However, there is a 5mile costal cycle path which I take my young kids and is very usefull.

Jez mon

TBH, It sounds like it was far too narrow for a 60mph road.

Last time I looked there was a slight difference in width between a tractor and a bike, one is easier to overtake, whereas the other one often has to pull over.

If I'm on my bike going slowly, I will pull over if i'm holding up traffic, unless the car starts hooting...yes thats sheer bloody mindedness but **** the ****ing ****ers!!

Cycle paths in this country are just about always unsuitable and often unnecessary for confident riders.

markos1963

Most cars drivers who are not cyclists are time obsessed bullies who think that 30 seconds behind a fast moving bike will ruin their whole day and would probably cheer if white van man knocked off a bike that was holding up a queue of traffic.

I don't have a problem using a cycle lane if it was an advantage to me to use it, but where will we ever find such a thing in this country. Most cycle lanes are rarely thought out and are mearly a sop by local councils to meet quotas for extra road funding.

I ride my bike as I used to ride my motorbike, defensively. That is not to say I cower in the gutter but I ride 4 foot out from the left hand side so drivers have to make a conscience decision to overtake or not. It also puts me into the view of drivers at junctions so inproving the rare occasions that they notice.