Ultimate comuter machine! (ideas please)

Aidanw

I am starting work at a new place that will double my commute through London ( Archwayish to charing cross vs to Camden)

They do a cycle to work scheme so it seems RUDE not to take the £1000 and turn it into something nice for me

I currently wibble through the traffic on a brompton and the temptation to upgrade to a titanium version is fairly strong (if I add a bit to the pot ovb!)

However I also quite like the idea of a 'real' bike and have been idly thinking what specification I would like, I would like comments on what seems sensible... and what not!

First off the frame, I like a racey ride (the bromton though no speed machine has jet-fighter like steering!) My other bike is a 70's Holdsworth road bike, pretty steep angles on that too.

I kind of have my eye on the various all carbon things that are around at the grand mark, but not sure if they can be bought as frames reasonably... or in a shop that does the cycle scheme stuff (Wiggle is out I think).
Failing that I think steel is my fave material.
For practical reasons I would like clearance for reasonable mudguards and a rack for panniers, I would not like to Q-clip them onto carbon stays! Maybe a Cyclocross Frame?

I quite fancy either hub brakes, or disc brakes, I am not sure what the practicalities of that means! I guess they are a bit heavier than normal, I am not sure if the frame needs extra widgets on.

I kind of think I like the idea of flat bars rather than drops, I guess that means MTB leavers and changers, I don't like "gripshift" style, do you still get ones with "up and down" triggers?

For group-set I would pitch around the "ultegra" level I guess with combined with whatever the MTB equivalent is for those bits that are not racey!

Where in London can I pitch up with my ideas and have a sensible conversation with someone? I need help getting the right frame size, the cycle position for me on the bromton (6'2 120kg!) is so laughable I think I have forgotten what a proper position feels like! I would want some sort of calculated ideal size rather than going on how it feels for me for that reason, It will feel odd!


Um that is about it, what do you think?

Cheers for ideas!

iainment

Cyclesurgery are good, and have a few branches. Failing that your lbs is worth visiting. Where did you get the brompton, were they helpful, if so try them.

Ngalbrai

Sounds like you are thinking along similar lines to me, though I still havent done anything about it aside from a little research.

What about the surly crosscheck, you could build it up as a flatbar road bike, reviewers say they are pretty comfortable, durable and fast, not so sure about disc mounts though, have seen them with front discs though if you get the right forks. My preference would be vees but only because i have finally worked out how to adjust them perfectly. Can fit variety of tire widths and all the UK commuting parafinalia (sp) rack mudguards etc.

Also looked at the Soma double cross, highly rated too.

Brixton cycles build up surly frames I think.

daver1

Don't go for carbon for a dedicated commuter. It has it's benefits but durability isn't one of them. Everything else being equal steel will be more comfortable than an equivalent priced aluminium frame although a good aluminium frame may be better than a bad steel one. I tend to change my commuter every couple of years (for fun rather than because I need to) and am about to get a Cotic Roadrat which is worth checking out and comes as either a flat bar or drop bar frame.

Gr.uB

DaveR1 wrote:

Don't go for carbon for a dedicated commuter. It has it's benefits but durability isn't one of them.

Dave,
What evidence are you basing this on?

daver1

Carbon fibre frames are less resistant to impact damage than aluminium or steel frames. One of the reasons why manufacturers continue to spend so much improving carbon fibre technology is so that they can introduce it to applications where it's ability to withstand impacts is a major concern.

A carbon frame may be as durable as an aluminium one in terms of actual cycling use it but a bang or scratch to the frame will do more damage than to the aluminium one. In my experience a commuter gets more knocks and scratches than a road bike and I haven't ridden a carbon bike for more than a year without it showing it's age.

Carbon is also more susceptible to damage from dirt and grit being ground into it (think of it as lots of tiny impacts) which can happen wherever components come into contact with the frame unless the bike is well maintained and these areas kept clean.

Mark_K

I got one off these a couple of months ago for my commute and so far i'm loving it
And i did the London 2 Brighton on it a couple off weeks ago They do a Charge Tap as well which is a bit cheeper.
http://www.chargebikes.com/projects/project/files/Mixer/

Ironpants

Hi Aidan,

I got a Charge Tap at the weekend, my first bike for 20 odd years, but some things I can say with authority:

While it can take full length mudguards it has no lugs for a bottle cage.

The Nexus hub is lovely, I have only occasionally found neutral

I am looking for bar ends as the flat bars are uncomfortable on the hands and shoulders after a while.

Cheers

Toby

Surf-Matt

My two penneth - I HATED the Nexus hub gears so much on our Spesh Globe that it went back after four months - work okay but utterly useless range of gears.If any proper hills are involved then avoid.

Carbon has poor impact resistance so is fine for race bikes (unless you crash a lot) but not too handy for the rough and tumble of commuting/locking up/etc.

Steel needs naff all maintenance and lasts forever. Aluminium lasts well and is light but fatigues and stree cracks over a long period (say 5 years). I have a ten year old Stumpjumper (highish end steel frame) and it's still as good as new.

And my evidence? Three years slogging away doing materials engineering at Swansea Uni - lots of study of steel, aluminium and composites.

gtvlusso

Ride something you don't mind being knocked off or being nicked! Sorry to sound like the prophet of doom, but it does happen.....

Built the Ambrosio in the shed from secondhand parts and run it on a strict budget, I have some crazy hills to get up with my backpack on - carrying work clothes and a laptop, hence the MTB groupset (and it was lifted from my old mtb!), though I will use my old racing bike, Ultegra, groupset when that starts to wear! Bargain bins and ebay is how I run the bike and it has never let me down and looks like a sack of sh*te! No one would nick it and I don't give a monkeys if it gets damaged.....

Although, I would love a beautiful commuter bike for £1000 - just trash it in the end with the mileage and weather.

G

gtvlusso

Futher to the above - spent my £1000 C2W on a new racing bike!!!

garryac

This is what I would build,

Frame from an 08 Dahon Cadenza, so folds and can be taken on the train if needs be, disc brakes, Juicy 3s or similar, suspension forks..nothing too fancy, Tora or Recon etc. A nice suspension seatpost.Transmision would have to be a Rohlof speed hub,(or failing that an Sram dual drive set up) with a Schmit dynohub up front, Conti semi slicks for the tyres, at a reasonable 1.6.

garryac

This is what I would build,

Frame from an 08 Dahon Cadenza, so folds and can be taken on the train if needs be, disc brakes, Juicy 3s or similar, suspension forks..nothing too fancy, Tora or Recon etc. A nice suspension seatpost.Transmision would have to be a Rohlof speed hub,(or failing that an Sram dual drive set up) with a Schmit dynohub up front, Conti semi slicks for the tyres, at a reasonable 1.6.

Gadge

<Although, I would love a beautiful commuter bike for £1000 - just trash it in the end with the mileage and weather.>

Weeeellll get it then! It is only a grand after all and my guess is would still be worth something in three years time.

What about how much car drivers lose over three years.
Something like a Mondeo can lose up to £20 grand in that time!

Losing say £800 on a bike in three years is a bargain and you will make that back on petrol savings. So it is basically Free. Well that is what I told her indoors anyway :P

dazzawazza

That's how I explain it to wifey after every delivery of shiney new bits.
We don't own a car so save a fortune on everything, plus I'm not spending £120 a month on a travel card.
It worked the first few times. :shock:

Tariq

I second what gtvlusso says about buying cheapish and not worrying about theft/damage. When you own a very expensibve bike (say over £500) you will become obsessed; obsessed with looking after it, locking it up securely, cleaning it and accessorising it. This obsession then defeats the whole point of cycling which should be an efficeint and care-free way to travel.

Stick to bike around £500 and the best for that money is the Specialised Sirrus, on ebay you will get one for closer t0 £300.

Enjoy it!

mbolton

Well Cycling Plus and this website seem to think that the Roadrat or the Kaffenback are the ultimate commuter.

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... nback-9993
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... drat-10010


Planet-X don’t do the £599 version anymore the complete bike starts at about £800 and you could very easily spec each up to the £1000. Both are lovely steel frames! I don’t think the Kaffenback is disc brake compatible though. You could make both a lighter with carbon forks and flat bars.

That’s what I’d do if I had the cash for the ultimate commuter anyway. As it is just using my old Orange Gringo with slicks it does the job but you asked whats the ultimate commuter.

cycledad2

Get something nice and get some insurance. Norwhich union house contents is the best by far.

My mates work started the bike to work scheme and he got a titanium brompton just cos it would have been rude not to

Aidanw

I thought of getting a titanium Brommy as well! sooo nice!

However I think I would prefer a 'real' bike (currently have a knackered old brommy!)

I went and talked to the Condor dudes and they suggested a Kona Sutra http://www.konabikes.co.uk/2008/sutra/sutra.php which seems to suit my needs ( they will swap in flat bars etc etc) AND it has a pretty bad punning name which appeals

A bit heavy perhaps and maybe I would like tighter angles but I think for around town it will be great, and having a bike that can carry a wee bit may get me out into the country (they say that is possible from London but I am not too sure how you do it )

I hear everything about getting a knackered beater for London but hey... it is only £500 and nice is nice even if it does not last!

Aidanw

by the way thanks for the discussion, very interesting!

Also I wonder if I am right going for straight bars? I accosted a guy in covent garden who cycled past me with cow-horn style bars. He had downtube shifters but can you mount combined changers on the end of cow bars?

One of the plus points in my mind with flat bars is you can cover the breaks at the same time as changing gears, but I suppose you can with the modern combined shifters with drops...

In away the "palms vertical" hold you get with cow-horns or on the hoods with drops seems a bit more relaxing than the "palms flat" of flat or mountain bike handlebars.

Any thoughts?

AndyManc

Aidanw wrote:

by the way thanks for the discussion, very interesting!

Also I wonder if I am right going for straight bars? I accosted a guy in covent garden who cycled past me with cow-horn style bars. He had downtube shifters but can you mount combined changers on the end of cow bars?

One of the plus points in my mind with flat bars is you can cover the breaks at the same time as changing gears, but I suppose you can with the modern combined shifters with drops...

In away the "palms vertical" hold you get with cow-horns or on the hoods with drops seems a bit more relaxing than the "palms flat" of flat or mountain bike handlebars.

Any thoughts?

Cow horns ... ahhh , the mid 70's ........

I've got raised bars ( though I wish they were raised more ) and I'm planning to get some bar ends , I suppose it's down to personal preference , I prefer an upright position ( less hammer on the lower spine ) and better for observing the situation. :shock:

Aidanw

Some good things came from the 70's! (Me for instance )

meanwhile

Aidanw wrote:

...First off the frame, I like a racey ride (the bromton though no speed machine has jet-fighter like steering!) My other bike is a 70's Holdsworth road bike, pretty steep angles on that too.

..Failing that I think steel is my fave material...

..I quite fancy either hub brakes, or disc brakes, I am not sure what the practicalities of that means! I guess they are a bit heavier than normal, I am not sure if the frame needs extra widgets on...

..I kind of think I like the idea of flat bars rather than drops, I guess that means MTB leavers and changers, I don't like "gripshift" style, do you still get ones with "up and down" triggers?

For group-set I would pitch around the "ultegra" level I guess with combined with whatever the MTB equivalent is for those bits that are not racey!

It sounds like the Charge Mixer is almost exactly what you want. Flat bar, very fast frame angles, heated treated steel frame, hydraulic disc brakes for all weather stopping, afine internal gears* hub for fast changes and minimum maintenance. Google for reviews and sellers and take a look. Mudguards and racks might be an issue though. Other option: Cotic Roadrat.

I don't think you'll get Ultegra on a good bike for a grand, I'm afraid.

*Said to be much better than the mediocre Nexus, which I wouldn't go near.

meanwhile

Tariq wrote:

I second what gtvlusso says about buying cheapish and not worrying about theft/damage. When you own a very expensibve bike (say over £500) you will become obsessed; obsessed with looking after it, locking it up securely, cleaning it and accessorising it. This obsession then defeats the whole point of cycling which should be an efficeint and care-free way to travel.

Stick to bike around £500 and the best for that money is the Specialised Sirrus, on ebay you will get one for closer t0 £300.

Enjoy it!

A Sirrus comes at quite a high premium for what it is and has a very stealable brand name. If you go cheap, get something like an Edinburugh Bike Co-op Courier. For about half the price, you get almost as much bike. Maybe more, if you get the Courier Disc for £300. And I say this as someone whose current ride *is* a Sirrus.

Aidanw

So...

to hell with practicality I am getting a Condor Italia with flat bars...

http://www.condorcycles.com/italia.html

I will just have to get my shopping home some other way

do you think I could pull a trailer!

Thanks for all the discussion, I would have gone for a Charge Mixer if I could get one, but they are out of stock till November everywhere (that accepts the CycleScheme ticket anyway!)

Sea_Green_Incorruptible

That's the spirit man!

meanwhile

Aidanw wrote:

So...

to hell with practicality I am getting a Condor Italia with flat bars...

http://www.condorcycles.com/italia.html

Any bike bought from Condor is a great bike - good call. And if you get bored with the flats you could get cool courier style urban pursuit bars (ok, bullhorns) or drops.

Mark_K

Love that condor web page with the folding corner thingy

Aidanw

I would hate it less if I could link directly to any page, really it is pretty but not very user friendly!

All flash sites should burn in a fire!

Aidanw

In the end

http://www.condorcycles.com/agio.html

is being created for me

Thanks for the helpfull thread.

Aidanw

Picked it up today!

With the addition of Cranks Bros Quatro predals and Specialised shoes (carbon sole of course!) it all came out at 1251.99

Not too bad though I am going to cry like a river when it is stolen!

My oh so brief cycle from the shop to work was interesting, I could not clip in reliably, it seems like the target is smaller than with the Look pedals I used before (and that was a few years ago, the brompton just had flat pedals)

The steering feels very different to the brompton, more like a tiller than a rotation, and the stretched out roady position feels very alien!

No doubt all these things will pass after a few miles... and i intend to rack them up pretty quickly!