Would Speedplay Pedals Help?

ziggy.mcd

I've not had much luck with clipless pedals, (SPD's on a road bike), my feet just don't seem to turn out far enough to disengage reliably. I appreciate that this is largely my problem, but they're my legs and Im stuck with them.

I understand that the speedplay system doesn't offer much resistance to the twisting action and has an adjustable release angle.

Problem is they will require new shoes as well and the cost is getting a bit steep.

Any thoughts?

sloxam

tried time rxs/rxe?

Gr.uB

Have you read this topic ??

always_tyred

I use the X series and the cleats last a long time. They really should at the price they go for.

Not sure about the plastic inserts that have been added to the zeroes though.

The pedals are a bit fragile because the bearings dry out. You have to be sure to refresh the grease fairly often. The stainless and Ti ones have needle bearings built into the pedal body. These aren't replaceable so once they go, you have to get a new set of pedals.

The float on speedplays is completely free, unlike some systems where you get a bit more friction or self-centering. Some people find it an odd feeling.

schilbach

Crank Brothers Eggbeaters worked for me - stomp and go!

always_tyred

Which reminds me - the Crank Bros cleats have low and high release angle, depending on which way round they are mounted, don't they?

Monty Dog

Anyone who pays £100 plus for a pair of pedals is hardly inclined to say that they are over-priced, have poor reliability, need new bearings every year and cleats every 6 months are they?

Gr.uB

Proof is in the use.
I cycle 250 miles per week. All year, all weather.
I have Speedplay stainless steel CSC red on the steel bike and Titanium grey on the TCR.
My knees are ace.
My cycling is stronger because my confidence in the pedal to foot connection is high.

disney

I I went clipless and developed a left knee problem using spd's. changed to the Frogs for my road bike. Never looked back and will never use anything else now.Took all of 5 minutes to get used to and so easy to clip out of or back in again and because they use the same 2 screw spd fitting I could use my shimano RT51's and walk around easily. IMO.

always_tyred

Monty Dog wrote:

Anyone who pays £100 plus for a pair of pedals is hardly inclined to say that they are over-priced, have poor reliability, need new bearings every year and cleats every 6 months are they?

Speedplays are a fantastic concept, but over priced and have poor bearing life (but the cleats really DO last a long time)

They are fantastic to ride and good on the knees so I put up with them.

(Actually, what I do for my commuter is buy them second hand from ebay off people who liked the idea better than the feel of them)

neeb

I use speedplay zeros and think they're brilliant, and while they could be what you are looking for, they are not necessarily. It depends on whether the reason you can't clip out is really because you can't twist your foot out far enough or because you find it hard to overcome the resistance of the mechanism. If it really is a case of the angle, then speedplay zeros could be the answer (but not any of the other speedplay models) because you can adjust the float so that the release angle is basically anywhere you want. On the other hand, they still require a fair amount of force to disengage, so if this is your problem then the zeros would not be the answer. The smoothest disengaging pedals I've used are the various crank bros models. When disengaging they have a sort of slidey feeling rather than a sudden click that you have to overcome. On the other hand, even with the cleats mounted to allow the lesser of the two float options, you still have to move your heel out much further than you would on the zeros with the float adjusted appropriately.

Nuggs

I've never had a problem with Look Keo Classics - just set a low resistance and away you go (for a lot less dough than the Speedplays)!

satanas

Spedplay pedals DO NOT have poor bearing life provided you RTFM and grease them occasionally. This only takes a few minutes, and is easy to do. My oldest frogs (converted from even older Magnums) are still going strong on the original bearings after ~10 years, much better than one can expect from many current pedals which don't even have bearings.

To respond to the OP's question, if you have trouble getting in or out of frogs there's no hope with anything else!

always_tyred

The newer ones are easier to grease, but the older ones don't have the little screw in the end cap to insert the grease gun. Greasing them is a bit of a chore.

"Occasionally" is subjective. In a matter of a couple of weeks, mine can go from freshly greased to dry and lumpy, given a bad run of weather. If I cover 120 miles a week through the winter and life gets in the way of meticulously cleaning a commuter every weekend, this can be an issue. Sure you can keep on top of it, but I expect better.

I can only compare to an ancient set of those Look-licensed Shimano pedals, and a pair of bog standard spd's, which I simply never serviced. It was my knees that wore out first!

Strictly, it isn't the bearings, but the sealing arrangements which are inadequate at preventing water getting in. The only thing protecting the needle bearings (the non-replaceable ones, remember) from the outside world is an o-ring.

The chromoly speedplays have bushings at one end. Again, these don't appear to be serviceable, and naturally wear out quite rapidly so you loose that locked in feeling that speedplays give. I think this is probably good business, providing they don't annoy customers too much.

ziggy.mcd

Thanks for all of the feed back, I hadn't realised it was such a contentious subject. I like the sound of the adjustable release point as my problem is turning my heel out, they just don't go very far. I guess im going to have to get a bike shop to let me try.

Gr.uB

Always Tyred, you make a valid point that it is a chore to remember to grease the pedal bearings, but it is a 10 second job.
Once you forget and the pedal goes busted on you, it has a sobering way of making you remember a bit of bike admin in the future I find.

JWSurrey

As I mentioned in the referenced post, and thanks to Monty's actual testing of various types of pedal (plus chat to the guys in the club), my Time RXS pedals have been excellent, however I must say that my cycling mad physio/Chiro./sports injury clinic doctor who also gets involved with bike design, reckons Speedplays are better for knee problems than other types of pedal not only due to the free float, but also because they offer a very low Q factor.

I'm sticking with my Time RXS pedals though, as they've alleviated my knee issues, and are easy to walk in.

always_tyred

Gr.uB wrote:

Always Tyred, you make a valid point that it is a chore to remember to grease the pedal bearings, but it is a 10 second job.
Once you forget and the pedal goes busted on you, it has a sobering way of making you remember a bit of bike admin in the future I find.

Its about a 30 minute job; I don't know about the Frogs, but the seal between the dust cap and the pedal body is not great, such that you have to grease very slowly in order to grease anything other than the inside of the dust cover.

This is made worse if there is any wear or chips in the pedal body around the dust cover. On the X series, the pedal body tapers to a very thin point to the dust cover and is brittle. Once it chips, in order to grease the pedal, you have to stop it with your fingers or teflon tape or something. And I defy anyone to remove the dust covers that come without the screws in them without chipping the pedal body.

Its not that big a deal, just something that cold be readily designed out with a grease port through the pedal body and better sealing arrangements and a replaceable needle bearing.

bobpzero

the search goes on. one uses that one uses this. all pedals hav their pitfalls. maybe the old look pedals will do. or maybe speedplays. hope to find a clear outcome.

satanas

Grease fittings for Speedplay road pedals are available as spare parts, so older pedals can be converted. I cannot see how greasing the pedal could take more than a few minutes; you could totally dsmantle the frogs and reassemble them in 30 minutes!

I agree that Dura-Ace pedals have excellent bearings and seals - probably the best out there - however my knees don't get along with them. IME, the MTB SPD pedals have considerably poorer bearings, plus insufficient float, plus are harder to get in and out of. They don't work for me at all, but YMMV.

My experience with Time pedals has been that they develop play (and then click annoyingly), and this cannot be fixed as it's due to wear taking place in the neeedle bearing pressed into the body. Time pedals also have considerably les float than Speedplay, plus what float they have is self-centring. Servicing the bearings is difficult.

Everything is a compromise; the important thing is to decide what is most important to you.

always_tyred

satanas wrote:

Grease fittings for Speedplay road pedals are available as spare parts, so older pedals can be converted. I cannot see how greasing the pedal could take more than a few minutes; you could totally dsmantle the frogs and reassemble them in 30 minutes!

The pedal body of the Frogs splits in 2, nicely exposing all of the bearings. With the exception of the X5's, which has a nut to undo on th end, the x's require undoing a torx screw (which is invariably locktited in place so well that you risk stripping the thing) and then using circlip pliers to remove a lock ring. That's a barsteward to remove and it takes to half an hour to find the thing when it inevitably pings of the end of the pliers and flies across the floor.

I should try the replacement dustcap thingies. That would save some time, although they would still leak.

Am I the only one who thinks that although its manageable, the speedplays really ought to be more robust?

always_tyred

Oh, and the other advantage of the Frogs is that the grease port is built directly into the pedal body, so you wouldn't get the seepage out the sides of the dust cap - which is the main reason it all gets so fiddly with the x-series.

I have a question about the Frogs; the thing that keeps me with the road speedplays is that the metal on metal contact gives truly free float all the way through the pedal stroke. Especially when I am just spinning, I have an odd kink at the bottom of the pedal stroke and my knees seem to prefer that this is taken up at the ball of the foot.

With other pedal systems, (Look and Crank Bros), I find that there is a lot of friction against the float during the down stroke.

How does the feel of the Frog compare to the feel of the X-series in that regard? Do you still get that slippery ankle breaking sensation?

(sorry for going off topic)

Gr.uB

My Zero pedals have the screw in the side, 5 seconds to undo, squeeze in some lube, screw up again - job done. I wouldn't have bought them if they were a pfaff.

satanas

Always Tyred wrote:

I have a question about the Frogs...How does the feel of the Frog compare to the feel of the X-series in that regard? Do you still get that slippery ankle breaking sensation?

My experience is that the frogs have just as easy float as the X-series pedals. There can be a little less inwards float (depending on cleat angle on shoe), although this can be increased by filing the inward rotation stop off the pedal body. I like having the inward rotation limited as I would occasionally bash my heel against the crankarm *hard* when starting off from a trackstand in a high gear with the Magnums; it also helps off-road IME as it means the rear of the bike can be steered a little with the feet.

From my point of view, the only advantages of the Xs are the slightly lower stack height, and slightly greater cornering clearance. OTOH, they are *much* harder to enter and exit (more movement and force required), and I find I have to be much more deliberate to get in and out. With the frogs this is almost automatic, and zero force is required - this especially helps with a fixed gear. And the non-recessed X cleats are no fun to walk on.

The result is that I haven't used the Xs for some months now.

always_tyred

That sounds promising. Providing you do not work for Speedplay or any UK distributor of theirs, I think I might be persuaded to get myself some Frogs. Cheers.

satanas

I neither work for Speedplay nor live in the UK. However, please note that YMMV! My experience with any interent discussion is that there are almost always people prepared to vilify or praise virtually anything, and that one needs to calibrate the reveiwer before believing anything they say (as with music reviews). Good luck with whatever you decide.

PS: IME the one major failing of the frogs is in soupy, gritty mud where the grit can make engaging a bit tricky, however, I avoid muddy conditions anyway so it's not an issue for me here in Oz.

bobpzero

kewl, that leaves 2 to choose from
Look Keo Carbon Pedals
Speedplay Zero Cromoly Road Pedals