Cost-effective lightening

Carlos13

Just bought my first mountain bike (Rockhopper disc 08). I like to fiddle and modify things, and I'd like to turn my bike into a lightweight, beautiful looking machine. So, my question is this: Where should I spend my money first? I like the idea of replacing the bars, seatpost etc with Ritchey carbon pro items-would that be a good idea? They look sweet to me. Probably not going to save much weight though.

I realize that buying a lighter, more expensive bike in the first place would have been cheaper, but I'd like to learn about stuff and I can always swap to a better frame later.

stevieboy

I always look at the big things first ie wheels, tyres and forks but it depends on the spec really.

supersonic

Yep, wheels, tyres and forks will make the biggest difference. Then the smaller parts.

passout

Tyres first, then wheels - after that I'd forget it. Cheaper to buy new.

KonaMike

I could not believe how much difference lighter wheels (Mavic 719) and tyres made to my bike !! It accelerates faster, climbs better and feels more nimble on the downhills too !!

Not a cheap upgrade but worth every penny

Surf-Matt

Drill holes in the frame...

icedmind

rock hopper come with good rims and tyres
just the non seal hubs and the poor engagment rear hub
the setup of the oe RH wheels is abt the same weight as 717 rims on hope hubs, they are dham light, but noe as tough
i would go for wheels with good hubs at the first place(dt370, hope xc) and if possible get rachet hubs
thats the first thing i would do

then handle bars and stem and saddle
the OE bar is oversize with overweight, so get new bar
and the saddle is not so comfort, upgrade to a phenom saddle if you have $$

the last would be the cassette, shifter and pedals
get rid of that heavy hg50 cassette and get a xt one(save half of the weight)
get the 08 xt shifter and replace that not accurate+slow shifting deore shifter
get spd if you want to, or decent flap pedals like v12, DX etc...

thats the things i must do before i ride on them, otherwise its a awesome bike


for lights i would just get the tiny led ones for 2.99 each at crc(used to be 1.99)
the front one you may like sth better but i would first sort out the list of upgrade
just don ride as quick at night

Carlos13

Thanks all for your advice. Took off bars, stemp, saddle and seatpost yesterday. Total weight 1170g. If I changed these for carbon items and the phenom (not Ti) saddle I've been looking at, I reckon I might save 350g for a cost of around £290. But the bike would look a lot better.

If the wheels are already reasonably lightweight, the forks look like the first big weight saving. I think the Tora 302 weigh somewhere around 2400g, I can pick up the Reba Race forks for about £300 and save about 800g.

I will gradually convert gears etc to XT. Wonder if there is a big weight saving to be had there...

supersonic

There is a lot to be saved in the wheels - the ones you have will be well over 2kg - and a a pair of handbuilt ones for less than 200 quid will save you 300g or more - and it is rotating weight. You can easily save 200g EACH on tyres for a paltry 30 quid a piece.

I think you are doing this the wrong way round to be honest! Start with dropping the weight of the performance parts - wheels, tyres, fork, then the finishing kit like the bars, stem and seatpost. Not only will you save weight, but have a big boost to performance.

Carlos13

I already have Schwalbe Nobby Nic tyres, I think they are pretty light already, certainly lighter than the tyres the bike came with.

supersonic

A couple of ideas for the bars, stem, seat post and saddle:

SDG I beam and I beam saddle, £50, 405g for the PAIR:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Kits ... elID=23386



Racefaxce NEXT carbon low riser, £50, 185g:

http://www.evanscycles.com/product.jsp? ... gn=froogle

Kooka Race stem, £25, 126g:

http://www.dirtyjobikes.co.uk/Parts/Ste ... _Race_Stem

All in weight 720g or so, for £125

Some (not all) carbon parts are outrageousl;y expensive for what they are, and are often heavier than alloy!

Carlos13

Those items on my bike weight 1170g, so a 450g (1lb) saving for £125. That's what I'm talking about! Thanks

I am unsure about the saddle/post as I've read reviews that say it's uncomfortable because it doesn't have rails that flex. But I'm willing to risk £50 on it.

Milkie

I swear I read somewhere....

Saving say 100g of rotation weight (wheels) is the iquivilent to saving 300g of static weight (bike/frame, non rotating items)

So saving say 500g on your wheels would be the same as saving 1.5kilo's off other stuff (saddle/stem/bars).

uk_mr_brownstone

supersonic wrote:

There is a lot to be saved in the wheels - the ones you have will be well over 2kg - and a a pair of handbuilt ones for less than 200 quid will save you 300g or more - and it is rotating weight. You can easily save 200g EACH on tyres for a paltry 30 quid a piece.

I think you are doing this the wrong way round to be honest! Start with dropping the weight of the performance parts - wheels, tyres, fork, then the finishing kit like the bars, stem and seatpost. Not only will you save weight, but have a big boost to performance.

Totally agree- I don't know what wheel's on the Rockhopper are like but I'm sure you'll get way more benefit from your £290 if you spend £240 on wheels and get some lighter tyres. If it was me i'd do this before upgrading the fork. I'd guess it'd save a similar amount of weight but i'm sure you'd feel the difference more than weight off the fork (unless it was loads more off the fork). You'll probably be able to re-coup at least £50 selling your current wheels.

I swear I read somewhere....

Saving say 100g of rotation weight (wheels) is the iquivilent to saving 300g of static weight (bike/frame, non rotating items)

So saving say 500g on your wheels would be the same as saving 1.5kilo's off other stuff (saddle/stem/bars)

I've heard lots about this, never always the same (e.g. twice the weight; 3 times the weight etc) and don't know the science beyond the basics, but after changing my wheels and tyres combo from some heavy DH rims and Wire Highrollers to some Stan's Rims and Mountain kings (pretty much a pound off EACH wheel- all on the outside), it definitely feels a lot lighter when riding. I guess that this is the most important outcome of weight saving (rather than my old preferred outcome- how many fingers you needed to hold up the bike!).
I've got an old SX5 rear mech, and old Richey seatpost, and average bars and stem- there's no way i'd've been as happy with spending the money I used on the wheels on upgrading these items that all work fine.

uk_mr_brownstone

Another thought- not sure what the crankset weighs, and the one you've got would be fine, but I noticed that a fairly old square taper BB + chainset weighed close on a pound more than the XT hollowtech2 set I replaced it with.

The problem you've got is that you could replace pretty much everything on the frame, get the bike mega light, but you'd have been better off spending half the upgrade cash at the start and getting a bike with lighter kit on it.
E.G Merlin were doing the Commencal supernormal for £721 the other weekend (now £799 with all discounts- I'm sure £721 was close to making a loss!). 24lbs! 2008 model! bargain!

Carlos13

Thanks again for your comments. I am considering XT but wanting to wait until stuff starts to wear out. I'm going to weight the front wheel later to see what might be saved.

As I alluded to earlier in the thread, I'm aware that the most cost effective way of lightening this bike would have been to not buy it in the first place, but I like fiddling with stuff and upgrading, bit by bit.

ACDCwmb

The M4 rockhopper frame is a good frame to upgrade on, I bought a 07 rockhopper disc which was the best bike for me at the time within my budget.

My first upgrades were pedals, tyres and grips. Later on I decided to change the stem and bars to alleviate some problems I had whilst out on long rides. I have had a few saddles until I found one I was happy with for all day XC riding.
I changed other bits as they wore out or I broke them :oops: . Other bits like the forks I changed because I got a very good deal on them at the time. Most of the bits I took off I sold unless they were totally worn i.e. hubs, headset, BB etc.

The only things I changed “just because” were the shifters from deore to some second hand XT ones because I liked the idea of dual release and the seat post, a good deal on a thomson one to match the stem, which was way lighter than the stock one.

The things that made the most difference when riding, performance wise, were the forks, wheels and tyres. The XT cranks also feel much stiffer especially when climbing. Now it is lighter, under 24lbs, much faster and rides a whole lot better. I bought good quality parts when upgrading with a view to moving them to an Anthem frame next year .

Carlos13

The front wheel on my bike weighs 910g with the brake disc and skewer thingie removed. I guess the rear wheel will be a bit heavier? Can I spend a reasonable sum and save a decent amount of weight?

I've ordered some XT pedals, the ones I have (flat one side, SPD the other) are 260g each.

supersonic

The main advantage of reduced rotating weight (as we ll as the overall static bike weight loss form doing so) is that the bike will take a little less effort to accelerate. At constant speed the energy required to keep the bike rolling is the same, regardless of roataional weight (assuming overall bike weight is the same). Reason is that heavier wheels roll better over bumps, and decellerate quicker. As for whether it feels like 3x the wactual weight loss, I don't know!

Your rear wheel is likely to be 200g more than the front, putting the combo at over 2kg.

£125 quid will score you the Fulcrum Red Metal set:

http://www.cyclestore.co.uk/productDeta ... ctID=14400

Carlos13

In terms of grams per pound, if we estimate my wheels at 2000g, the fulcrums at 1805g will cost 65p per gram saved.

If I have my calculations correct, Stan's ZTR 355 with Hope II hubs at DT Rev spokes weigh around 1455g for the pair (is this correct?), in which case at £315 and with a saving of 555g, cost 57p per gram saved, so in raw terms are better value for money.

What do you think? (other than that I am mad for considering bolting this stuff onto a Rockhopper...)

ACDCwmb

It's your money, do with it what you like. If you are happy with the rockhopper then why not. The frame it's self is good and has a good geometry for those who want a fast bike, very very similar to say the stumpy which is only slightly lighter.
If you are comfortable with the ride and it handles how you would want it to then upgrade as you wish. Go try a much more expensive frame which has the same sort of geometry and see how that feels, apart from being lighter, not that much in it otherwise. If you really get hung up on having a super lightweight ride then you will have to look at a different frame first, then be prepared to spend a whole load of cash per gram saved, if you not into racing or competitive events then don’t bother going down that route. I’ve got my rockhopper down to under 24lbs and I’m happy with that, of course I could get it lighter but I’m not prepared to spend loads more replacing perfectly good components just to save a few grams. The bike was around £600 when I first bought it, reckon I’ve spent around 1k on it to date over a year or so, sold bits on for £200…so for about £1400 I’ve got a light fast hard tail with a very good spec. and quality parts than I can look at swapping to another frame later if I wish. Your choice really.

Carlos13

This is exactly the route I envisage - build the bike up with quality, light parts then swap onto a different frame in the future if I so desire.

supersonic

The Hope/stan/rev set is a bit of a racers wheelset - may not be as durable as other builds.

supersonic

The Hope/stan/rev set is a bit of a racers wheelset - may not be as durable as other builds.

The Spiderman

My XTC originally cost me £500 to which I`ve added about £300 in upgrades.Some of best upgrades have come courtesy of the classifieds.£150 for a pair of Reba forks,sold the old ones for £50 and bought a a set of XT/717 wheels for £80,sold the old ones for £50,so it doesn`t have to be expensive.

Lots of good kit going cheap on the singletrackworld classifieds.Fortunately there`s lots of people with more money than sense around.......

Carlos13

I bought a set of used Reba SLs last week, after also considering some SIDs (SIDs seem to be cheaper second hand).

The Toras I took off weigh 2.21kg on my kitchen scales, the Rebas, including remote lockout (dunno if its a poploc or a pushloc) are 1.67kg. So A saving of 540g at a cost of £140 (26p per gram).

Next I think I will get an XT cassette. I think this will save me circa 250g for £35 (14p per gram, easily the most cost effective component so far).

I'd like to get some wheels, but being a tighta*se I haven't seen any yet (ideally looking for Mavic XC717 + Hope) that are cheap enough, and I'm not clear how much weight I will save.

The Spiderman

Good choice in forks.The Reba SLs are good forks,and very good value.
The older model SIDS that you see advertised are very light but flexy.The newer 08 SIDs are much better,with thicker stantions but being new I have yet to see any second hand bargains.

Have you thought about sticking a wanted ad on the singltrack world forum for wheels?You will quite often see Hope/7171 advertised on there.

If you buy an XT cassette,make sure you budget for a new chain aswell.I recenlty got a PC 991 hollow pin.Thats another 10g saved!

My XTC is now around 24lbs,and I`m struggling to think of ways of reducing it further without spening loads of money or compromising its durability.

If I had the money I`d get lighter wheels,but I`d need to spend £300 to save maybe 1/2lb.

I might also change my RF Deus bars to Raceface Next but again I might have to spend £100 to save 50g,so its really getting to the point of diminishing returns.

Not so bad if you sell stuff on,but with everyone wanting a bargain,I`m finding it harder to make money on the old bits.


Have you weighed your current wheels?You need to remove cassette,skewers and rim tape,then you can compare.
XT with 717 are approx 1850-1950g depending on the XT model.Newer m770/5 XT hubs are much lighter.Hope Pro 2 with 717s are 1800.
I reckon your existing set will be over 2kg.

Carlos13

I know that my front wheel minus rotor and skewer (but still including tape) is 910g. So it's reasonable to expect the set to be over 2kg.

punctureboy

sorry to jump on this thread but i also have a rockhopper disc 08, and i'm considering upgrading the wheels. as i'm 6'4" and about 17.5 stone i'm worried i'll be compromising on strength, especially as i'm going to be stepping up to small jumps and drop offs soon. does the suggested kit compromise on strength at all? can anyone reccomend a suitable wheelset for my needs?

supersonic

Consider whether this is the right bike for drop offs and jumps (small stuff ok) but anything more than a couple of foot, and a bad landing with that weight will take its toll.

Your existing wheels though fairly heavy are also fairly strong. You'd have to spend a lot to keep the strength but drop the weight. Would probably need Mavic 721 rims for riding as you propose, which will add 190g per rim over a 717 rim.

punctureboy

thanks. 2 foot is the absolute max i intend to go. just to open up a few new lines etc.