what's the REAL diference between Fox RP2 & RP23 shocks?

zaynan

After years of riding hard tails I'm now convinced enough that I should inroduce a FS bike into the fold!

This isn't a "which bike should I buy post" more of a "what is the difference when you are actually on the trail between having a Fox Float RP2 and RP23 shock" post?

I understand the differences on paper ie the RP23 has 3 pro-pedal positions and the 'OE' RP2 'only' has 2 - but how does this translate in terns of how satisfied I'll be with the performance when out on the trail? Will I regret not having the RP23 or is the difference between the two types negligible?

Given that the shortlist of bikes I'm thinking of buying has only got these 2 shocks I feel it's something I need to understand and I'm not one for marketing bulls*** and much prefer to hear people's real experience of these things.

supersonic

A lot will depend on the bike too. My Idrive has a fixed low tune Pro Pedal tuned to the suss charecteristics and works great. More flexibility means it will more likely work for you.

zaynan

Thanks Supersonic - does that mean on the RP23 you can tune the pro pedal for rebound and compression then?

supersonic

Both shocks have fully adjustable rebound - the RP23 adds three settings of compression damping rather than the on/off of the RP2. RP2 is OE only though, but can be got from some places.

Mojo can always tune your shock.

nicklouse

pro pedal is not tunable. it is just three settings.

both shocks IIRC have rebound adjustablity.

grumsta

If the suspension design is good the propedal doesn't do much anyway - I couldn't tell the difference with it on or off on a Commencal Meta I demoed.

zaynan

That's interesting Grumsta - was it a Meta 5.5 perchance?......

artillerydave

One my RP23 you have a dial 1,2,3 for propedal which you can adjust on the fly, so effectively you can have the shock full open, on 1 a bit stiffer for more pedally section, 2 stiffer again for long uphills, and 3 stiffest setting for minimal shock movement. my brother in law has an RP2 on his bike so his is either open or propedal, and none of the adjustment of the RP23.

In practice on trails you know well you do use the different setting quite a bit and I find it very useful on my orange 5 anyway. I believe it may have less of an effect on some of the more complicated suspension designs.

zaynan

One of the my options is Cannondale Prophet1 with an RP23 shock - I'm thinking I'd get more out of the RP23 on that as it is a simple design.....First and foremost I want to get the best frame, shock and forks I can for my money and worry about the wheels and some of the other components as they wear/break.

nicklouse

you are looking at it all wrong.

which bike feels best for your riding?

forks shocks etc are relativly cheap to change/improve.

changing a frame can be prohibativly expensive.

do not campare shocks on different bikes as the RP2 on one does not have to be the same as the RP2 on another.

chose the bike first and then the best spec you can from what is offered.

zaynan

Forks and shocks are cheap to change are they - well not in my world they aint!

I don't think I have got it all wrong, thanks (consider being a little less aggressive in your responses please Nick - they wind me up - always have done).

I aksed what the difference is between shocks and don't want to turn this into a which bike is best thread - only I know which is best for me.

My point is, will I regret not having the extra tunability of the shock if I 'only' go for a rp2 equipped rig?

supersonic

Many RP2 that are fitted have the pro pedal tuned to the bike - so buying after market an RP2 (which in theory you cannot get it affter market) and fitting it to a frame may not give the characteristics the frame designer intended (hence the RP23). Like with forks, the extra money buys you a little more adjustabilty, but this doesnt mean the RP2 will not work just fine. Testing the frames with the shock is the best way.

zaynan

Thanks supersonic - it just so happens that the Prophet 1 is top of my hit list and it posseses the RP23 - hope to test ride one soon.....

Mancunianfightingcat

Its a similar thing with forks, I have Fox Talas RLC 32 on my bike, I do use the TALAS but once I'd got all the other settings how I like them, I've never touched the dials, likewise on some Vanilla RLCs I had. If the bike manufacturer has done the necessary work with Fox and set the non 'rider adjustable' settings right, then a more simpler shock will in theory be better. How many times have magazines said the same thing?

grumsta

zaynan wrote:

That's interesting Grumsta - was it a Meta 5.5 perchance?......

yep

zaynan

And was it any good (the 5.5)?

BikerDan

Whats the RP3 then? Any better/worse than the RP23?

zaynan

It's a shock for sarky gits

BlackSpur

Eh? It is a real shock...
http://www.moredirt.co.uk/products_info.php?id=9

zaynan

Er sorry BikerDan - and thank you Black Spur - I'd never seen one of them before - couldn't find it on the Fox website either - what does it do?!

magneto1080

I think Grumsta & Nicklouse make the most valid points and that more emphasis should be placed on the frame/suspension design - as this will have far more dramatic effect on how the shock/pro pedal reacts.

The same shock could feel completely different from one bike to the next - to the point that the propedal is almost not required on a great suspension design.

grantway

artilatydave you must NOT adjust the 123 setting on the fly!!!

You can adjust between the pro pedal and the fully open mode only
zero303 gave me this healthy warning and is true

I adjusted my fork and shock on the knarly stuff and runs perfect on the
smaller stuff.
Its all a compromise untill they bring out memory tune, now thats the future LOL

toasty

Definitely down to the frame, my Meta (RP2) is better without it in my opinion, I get pedal feedback and bounce along a lot more with it on if anything, I'm sure I could adjust the seat position or something and solve it somehow, possibly revalve it to a lighter pro pedal valve?

With it off it's fairly bob free on the climbs anyway, plush when it needs to be. You don't get the solid platform to accelerate on like Pro Pedal (or a hardtail :P) gives though obviously.

My old Specialized bikes ('07 FSR XC and '01 Enduro) could both have massively benefited from Pro Pedal oddly, so much for the 4-bar-linkage stopping bob jargon. I'm sure the newer rocker designs are better in this department anyway.

I understand the differences on paper ie the RP23 has 3 pro-pedal positions and the 'OE' RP2 'only' has 2 - but how does this translate in terns of how satisfied I'll be with the performance when out on the trail? Will I regret not having the RP23 or is the difference between the two types negligible?

The RP2 is effectively on or off and has 1 valve inside, in the case of my Meta it's a fairly firm one. The RP23 can switch between all the different valve options without needing a tune. You might find the default setting is perfect anyway on the RP2s, they'll be valved with the bike they're fitted on in mind.


I definitely like the technology though, still using an F80X inertia lockout fork on my hardtail too Seems a shame they've phased it out on the front end, no diving under braking and a solid platform to climb on is ace, the valve was completely tuneable with about 16 click settings or something.

zaynan

Toasty, thanks - that's just the sort of real-world experience and advice that I was after. It just so happens that the Meta 5.5xt alongsode the Prophet 1 are on my wish list. I'm beginning to understand a little better now - just need to get out and try the bikes now....

Anonymous

My Marin, shares an almost identical swingarm design to the meta, although the meta has a linkage to activate the shock.
It had very little bob with the super basic OEM shock anyway, but when I upgraded to a fox DHX5 I found it performed better with the propedal turned off.

In my case though, the propedal made the suspension action feel a little harsh over small bumps. When I tried switching it off, it's like riding on a cloud

For example, if you've ever ridden the Llandegla red boardwalk section, with PP turned on, my bike rides it fairly smoothly, but you can definitely feel each log.
with PP off, I just get a general up n downy floatiness - almost like when you have a puncture.

The one occasion I have turned PP on recently, was whilst riding up Llanberis pass, as the PP gives a slightly more 'hardtail' feel that's hard to describe.

zaynan

Again, Yeehaamcgee , that is the good 'real' experience that I'm interested in learning as I have never owned a full sus bike before - only hardtails. Thanks for your input!

I'm beginning to think that the pro-pedal isn't maybe as important as I thought it might be - I'll look forward to riding these things and see how my experience compares to what you have all said.....

artillerydave

grantway wrote:

artilatydave you must NOT adjust the 123 setting on the fly!!!

You can adjust between the pro pedal and the fully open mode only
zero303 gave me this healthy warning and is true

I know this when I say on the fly I mean stop change between 1,2,3 and the have that setting either on or off, but lets face it it takes seconds so is literally on the fly, just not moving or with the shock weighted.

Anonymous

zaynan wrote:

Again, Yeehaamcgee , that is the good 'real' experience that I'm interested in learning as I have never owned a full sus bike before - only hardtails. Thanks for your input!

I'm beginning to think that the pro-pedal isn't maybe as important as I thought it might be - I'll look forward to riding these things and see how my experience compares to what you have all said.....

Ah, but remember, me and Toasty both have very bob-free suspension designs. The marin, in it's heyday was known for it's impeccable ability to climb, compared to other full sussers.

My riding buddy has a Norco six two, a true four bar linkage (even has a "licenced from Specialized notice on the swingarm!!) and that bobs quite noticeably.
I've also ridden an older Specialized FSR XC, and again, that bobbed quite noticeably, even though it only had 100m (I think) of rear travel.

I think by their nature, and from my own experience, 4-bar designs seem to benefit greatly from pro-pedal.

But, each suspension design has pitfalls. For example, on mine, and the meta, the rear wheel axle travels slightly rearwards and upwards in the first part of it's movement arc.
What this means is that if you hit a so called "square edge" bump, such as a kerb for example, that the wheel travels backwards, and may only use the first part of it's travel, rather than continue upwards to use more travel, if you see what I mean.

This isn't a feature of most 4-bar designs, BUT, the length of the linkages can give different characteristics.

grumsta

zaynan wrote:

And was it any good (the 5.5)?

Yeah it was awesome. Some great deals on em from Merlin and Real Cycles at the moment as well.

I was all set to get one but heard a few things about frames cracking which kind of put me off. Many people have them without problems though.

toasty

yeehaamcgee wrote:

I've also ridden an older Specialized FSR XC, and again, that bobbed quite noticeably, even though it only had 100m (I think) of rear travel.

I think by their nature, and from my own experience, 4-bar designs seem to benefit greatly from pro-pedal.

Hehe odd isn't it, I always thought one of the selling points of the Horst-link 4 bar design was the lack of pogo, with no pro pedal I found completely the opposite. This isn't always a bad thing though, with Pro Pedal on you get the solid platform to accelerate on and less feedback than I had on the Meta (with Pro Pedal on). The older designs were far from plush though, riding the Meta and Orange though was amazing after 7 years on 4-bar designs, I'm sold! :shock:

I know everyone recommends their own bikes, after spending £2k no one is going to doubt what they've bought. I must say though the Meta is an inspiration to ride, I find myself leaping down things I didn't even see as jumpable on my old bikes. The traction off the rear wheel really grabs on every steep loose slope fantastically, I can climb a lot more aggressively than I can on my hardtail. So much fun!

The stuff about cracking is very rare, the Commencal Owners Club forum is basically where the majority of Commencal owners will go if anything like this happens. Commencal have warrantied EVERY one I've seen on there, I'd bet a lot have been thrown down some big DH courses. They're a relatively small company still so reputation is important, this can also mean they take a few weeks to get warrantied frames back though apparently.

Edit: Oh and I got mine from Real Cycles as well, shipped over here after cheekily trying a local shop for fit. :twisted: Steve from there admins the Owners Club forum and is generally very good with support etc. I've warranty claimed on a set of Revelations from Merlin before though and they were fine too, bit less communication from them though.

Anonymous

The secret to the Meta, and the Orange, and the Marins, is that as you pedal, the rear wheel tries to extend the suspension a little, counteracting the bob, and also digging into the ground hard. This makes loose surface climbing a breeze, and also makes for snappy acceleration.

Most 4 bars I've ridden, the pedaling action either has no effect on the rear wheel, or worse, pulls it up, forcing a really bad bob.