Lightweight Wheels

Martingale

Can anybody comment on:

1. How do Lightweight wheels compare to Zipps (apart from price)?
2. Checking in the web, could not figure out how how one can true it or replace spokes if required. Do we really need to send it back to Germany to get it done?
3. They don't look like a good value for money to me. Maybe someone who has been using them could comment on it.

Thanks,

Martingale

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Martingale

thanks - i have a look at this forum.
i was checking the price for a Lightweight Obermayer - £3,250. That's ridiculous - it has to be the most expensive in the market, but is it really the best?
rgds.

mr-ed

I bet they are amazing wheels but are you going to notice that big a difference? There are plenty of deep section wheels in the £1500 price range which although heavier would seem better value for money. Saying that if it was me and I had the money I'd get them!

giant_man

They're obviously that kind of price for a reason. Weight seems to be everything in the world of carbon wheels.

If I had the money - spare - and I had a very light carbon frame and components to partner them with - I would get them too!

LEW racing wheels are more expensive btw .....

Martingale

I guess the biggest problem with them is the maintenance.
If you have any problem with the wheel, you have to send it back to Gemany to be assessed/fixed, which might take a few weeks and cost a lot of money.

Diesel_engine

Martingale wrote:

I guess the biggest problem with them is the maintenance.
If you have any problem with the wheel, you have to send it back to Gemany to be assessed/fixed, which might take a few weeks and cost a lot of money.

I bought two sets, just in case I have to send one back to Germany for repair.
:P

cydonian74

Martingale wrote:

Can anybody comment on:

1. How do Lightweight wheels compare to Zipps (apart from price)?
2. Checking in the web, could not figure out how how one can true it or replace spokes if required. Do we really need to send it back to Germany to get it done?
3. They don't look like a good value for money to me. Maybe someone who has been using them could comment on it.

Thanks,

Martingale

Seriously, Zipps are nice wheels, but the Lightweights are a completely different league. The difference is that stark. If you ever get the chance to try a set, they accelerate, handle and have a performance that says EXACTLY why they cost as much as they do.

I have some generation 2's and they are so stiff and light that they make you feel like an even better rider. You will climb more easily, accelerate more quickly and feel 'the dogs', just dont crash them, because you will have to send them back to Germany for repair as they are bonded and laminated together.

can you tell i'm impressed? So are the pro's, because apart from Eric Zabel (i believe...) they all buy their own. High praise indeed! :shock:

Jez mon

They're so good, he had to post that three times!

Zipps are very good wheels, and in most tests they come out looking more aerodynamic than the LWs.

I'm not sure about the durability of LWs but I know that many have complained about the 404 rim (wish i'd known that before i spent my money on them).

Furthermore, the rim shape of the LWs means it's more susceptible to cross winds.

Overall, the LWs are probably a better wheel for bunch racing, due to their handling and lack of weight

James_London

1. Depends which Zipps you mean. Lightweights are lighter and quite a bit stiffer than 303 and 404 but not quite as aerodynamic as a 404 or deeper. Not much between the hubs (DT Swiss 240s in the Lightweight standards or Zipp's own). You can get Zipp rims built with different hubs if you want to. Any wheelset under 1150g requires a fair bit of attention (ie don't take your hands off the bars without paying attention!) compared to heavier wheels. Because of their lower inertia they steer off course more easily. I wouldn't recommend Zipp clinchers - very heavy for the price.

2. They can't be trued (but they're quite hard to put out of true because of the construction - spokes are bonded rather than relying on a nipple like a traditional wheel). You can get them fixed in Germany if necessary. Zipps are obviously fairly easy to true.

3. Yep. They're expensive. Check out Mavic Cosmic Ultimates which are basically poor man's Lightweights. Very similar weight, construction and performance but significantly cheaper. 'Good value for money' depends on what you stand to gain from saving a few seconds. If you're a pro and it means you win races, they might be good value for money. Otherwise I guess you have to ask whether you could spend the money on something else that would give you more 'value' - financial or otherwise.

You don't say anything about what you intend to use the wheels for or your weight so the above comments are fairly generic.

Phips - You'd be brave to be the first to dive in on the Lightweight clinchers. I'd want to see a few happy customers before parting with my cash (I'd actually stick with tubs anyway). Imagine what would happen to the rims when you got a front puncture going down a hill. Ouch! At least with a tub you have a modicum of control, lower risk of a rapid 'blow-out' type puncture and a tub protecting the rim from damage.

aracer

Of course in actual performance terms, the Zipps will actually make you faster for anything but a pure hill climb, as in normal riding aero (where Zipps are better) is far more important than weight. In any case, if you're riding in "proper" events then the UCI 6.8kg rule rather limits the point of wheels lighter than Zipps given it's quite straightforward to get a bike under that weight using them.

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dennisn

Not trying to change the subject, but whatever happened to LEW wheels?
I thought that they were supposed to be the very latest "hot ticket" item. At least they
were promoted that way a year of so ago. Do things really change that quickly??

Dennis Noward

dennisn

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why anyone would spend that kind of money
on absolutley top of the line wheels that cost a small fortune, or more, because they
want ultra light weight and then not use tubulars.
And yes, I already know that some of the answer deals with me being old and possibly
not of sound mind.

Dennis Noward

aracer

Because tubs roll slower (and are also more trouble and stop weighing less if you don't have support and feel the need to carry spares).

dennisn

aracer wrote:

Because tubs roll slower (and are also more trouble and stop weighing less if you don't have support and feel the need to carry spares).

I know, but it seems that most of the blurbs on this subject are all about rotating weight
being the absolute main concern of everyone. And by the way, didn't I just lose a
debate(argument) with you about rear wheel dish. I seem to recall, but they say short
term memory is the first to go.

Dennis Noward

giant_man

LEW wheels are available and I do believe they're even more expensive than LWs...... they do the VT-1 Pro anyway that much I do know.

Monty Dog

Not ridden them myself, but have team mates who have - both experienced problems with the Lightweights going out of true and going back to Germany to be sorted. Both gave up and bought something that worked - for the money I'd have Campag Boras, Fulcrum Racing Carbons or Corimas, particularly over any flimsy Zipp job. Zipp's reliability and stiffness - both distinctly lacking - would make them a long way down my list. I still laugh when people try to justify carbon clinchers - strikes me that they've never ridden a carbon wheel and that Oh-$hit moment when you feel the rim touch the tarmac - I can hear the crunch as the edge of the rim gives way and the realisation that the puncture possibly just cost £200 for a new rim.

dcj

zipps are now competitive price/performance options but in my opinion, that is only correct for the tubular versions.
the latest 202 tubs are close to the weight of the LWs, the 303 and 404 getting heavier and more aero.

carbonsports LWs spokes are moulded into the hubs/rims so reliability should be as close to perfect as is possible. However as someone said, in the event of breakage due to accidents then there would be significant downtime/cost.

zipp clinchers seem too much about marketing over real benefits because the weight skyrockets and the price stays high.

what the world needs is a deep section aero wheel weighing under 1100gm, with good wet weather braking and not unduly affected by cross winds, and in clincher form.

using current technology, it would take 3 companies to join forces.
such a wheel would have to be built by by carbonsports, use the latest shimano bonded alloy carbon brake surfaces, with a rim shape borrowed from the zipp 404.

IanTrcp

You'd be better off with Mavic Open Pro's built on Dura Ace hubs, and could probably risk going down as far as 32 spoke for the front.

Surprised no-one else has mentioned this yet.

aracer

dennisn wrote:

aracer wrote:

Because tubs roll slower (and are also more trouble and stop weighing less if you don't have support and feel the need to carry spares).

I know, but it seems that most of the blurbs on this subject are all about rotating weight
being the absolute main concern of everyone. And by the way, didn't I just lose a
debate(argument) with you about rear wheel dish. I seem to recall, but they say short
term memory is the first to go.

Dennis Noward

Not sure I'd describe it as losing the argument so much as me eventually managing to explain my point in a way which was understandable to a non-scientific layman. It was all a rather pedantic point anyway

I'm sure I've also explained on here before why the hype about rotating weight being important is also largely a load of rubbish, given how little of your power output ever goes into acceleration and that 400g extra on a pair of wheels only makes 1% difference to the power required for acceleration if it is all at the rims (and only 0.5% difference compared to having the weight anywhere else on the bike). Meanwhile for climbing which is where most people actually care about the weight it makes no difference whether the weight is on the rims or in the spare tubs you're carrying.

BTW - AFAIK LWs use Tune hub internals, not DT240s.

James_London

aracer wrote:

BTW - AFAIK LWs use Tune hub internals, not DT240s.

Standards are DT240s, Obermayers are Tune

dennisn

aracer wrote:

dennisn wrote:

aracer wrote:

Because tubs roll slower (and are also more trouble and stop weighing less if you don't have support and feel the need to carry spares).

I know, but it seems that most of the blurbs on this subject are all about rotating weight
being the absolute main concern of everyone. And by the way, didn't I just lose a
debate(argument) with you about rear wheel dish. I seem to recall, but they say short
term memory is the first to go.

Dennis Noward

Not sure I'd describe it as losing the argument so much as me eventually managing to explain my point in a way which was understandable to a non-scientific layman. It was all a rather pedantic point anyway

I'm sure I've also explained on here before why the hype about rotating weight being important is also largely a load of rubbish, given how little of your power output ever goes into acceleration and that 400g extra on a pair of wheels only makes 1% difference to the power required for acceleration if it is all at the rims (and only 0.5% difference compared to having the weight anywhere else on the bike). Meanwhile for climbing which is where most people actually care about the weight it makes no difference whether the weight is on the rims or in the spare tubs you're carrying.

BTW - AFAIK LWs use Tune hub internals, not DT240s.

Just out of curiosity, a friend wants me to build up a new set of wheels for him using Tune hubs(tried to talk him out of it but he's got plenty of money). Am I right in my thinking
that Tune rear hubs are very noisey and loud(sort of like Chris Kings)? If they are he might not like them and I don't want that(even if he does have a ton of money).

Dennis Noward

wildmoustache

a lot of the appeal of LWs is that they are very stiff and feel very stiff. this imparts a sense of phenomenal performance when climbing or accelerating. even if the reality is that the performance benefit is more marginal ... if it makes you feel like you're flying ...

Jez mon

dennisn

Just wondering why you think your friend won't like a noisy free wheel. The tune hubs are smooth and light...if you don't like the noise don't be such a slacker

Back to the original poster, what wheels are you thinking of? You said you where moving away from the LWs as they were too expensive. Personally I don't blame you. For LW money you could get a decent pair of light aero carbon wheels and a pair of alu ones for using in the wet or the high wind.

A few things to remember. The most important thing are the tyres and its getting harder and harder to find nice (reasonably priced) Tubs. Carbon braking surfaces need different brake pads and you're going to want two sets of holders and pads so you can quickly switch between carbon and alu wheels.

wildmoustache

I don't like noisy hubs either ... the noise has to be using energy which feeds my paranoia

that said, the campagnolo hubs always seemt o me to roll as well as anything and they sound like a swarm of bees.

pat1cp

This is what happens when you hit a dog with a pair of LW wheels,,, and the dog gets up and walks away !!!! :shock:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGLDllHhBnE

LangerDan

If he had been using Mavic Cosmic Carbones, he'd have simply bisected the dog and continued on his way. Lightweights - pah!

andyp

pat1cp wrote:

This is what happens when you hit a dog with a pair of LW wheels,,, and the dog gets up and walks away !!!! :shock:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGLDllHhBnE

I think any carbon rimmed wheel (and any aluminium one for that matter) would have done something similar in the same situation given how hard he braked and the amount of weight that was loaded onto the rim.

aracer

dennisn wrote:

Just out of curiosity, a friend wants me to build up a new set of wheels for him using Tune hubs(tried to talk him out of it but he's got plenty of money). Am I right in my thinking
that Tune rear hubs are very noisey and loud(sort of like Chris Kings)? If they are he might not like them and I don't want that(even if he does have a ton of money).

Not something I've noticed with my Tune hubs. Then again I don't find my Campag Record hub particularly noisy either unlike most people - though the Tune hub is quieter than that and certainly nothing like a CK.

dennisn

aracer wrote:

dennisn wrote:

Just out of curiosity, a friend wants me to build up a new set of wheels for him using Tune hubs(tried to talk him out of it but he's got plenty of money). Am I right in my thinking
that Tune rear hubs are very noisey and loud(sort of like Chris Kings)? If they are he might not like them and I don't want that(even if he does have a ton of money).

Not something I've noticed with my Tune hubs. Then again I don't find my Campag Record hub particularly noisy either unlike most people - though the Tune hub is quieter than that and certainly nothing like a CK.

Thanx, guess I'll give them a go.

Dennis Noward