Sportive Gold/Silver/Bronze standard standards.

bahzob

Are there any guidelines to cover how times for sportive gold etc standards are calculated? Done a couple of sportives so far this year, the Wessex and Highclere. Wessex golds were very few and far between, while more common at Highclere.

Know at the latter event there was a lot of confusion even on the day (see Highclere threads here) about what targets were. Having some general guidelines might help avoid this and allow riders to compare their performances between different sportives/measure their progress.

Turnbull2000

bahzob wrote:

Are there any guidelines to cover how times for sportive gold etc standards are calculated? Done a couple of sportives so far this year, the Wessex and Highclere. Wessex golds were very few and far between, while more common at Highclere.

Know at the latter event there was a lot of confusion even on the day (see Highclere threads here) about what targets were. Having some general guidelines might help avoid this and allow riders to compare their performances between different sportives/measure their progress.

Got Gold in the Northern Rock Cyclone this morning. 100 miles/7000ft in 5:25. Only my third spotive since taking up road cycling, so quite pleased. Didn't really push hard during the mid-sections though, and I'd imagine more experienced roadies will have comfortably beaten my time. Seems to me that the threshold was too low.

Still, I'm not complaining

ricadus

The times are set according to the whims and local experience of the course designers. There may be sensible or cynical reasons for the times being what they are – rider safety or optimal customer satisfaction.

Sometimes extreme weather has to be allowed for, which is perhaps why the gold times in the Marmotte are relatively generous.

The times in the Etape are surely intended to enhance it's status as a hard event and maybe the Wessex is following this approach.

I think trying to invent some kind of universal system that could be applied to every kind of sportive seems a bit nannyish to me. There are too many other variables such as landscape, weather, traffic, your own personal condition (rest, stress, health) that interfere, as well as differing opinions as to how to tackle the courses (collectively sharing the work, or solo effort).

Progress can be better measured other than by a crude cut-off time. A heart rate monitor and its recorded data will show you if you are becoming stronger or more efficient.

juggler

i quite like them. For me they have to be on the generous side, otherwise there's no way i will get to the Gold standard :oops: . Wessex seems aimed at hardened clubmen or maybe racers on a training run...Highclere was a good balance i think. Maybe up to 20% getting Gold is a good way to add interest for a large number of riders on the event. Making the level so that only the top 1 or 2 % on a 100 mile sportive get Gold removes incentive for most and in some ways signifies that the event is geared towards a competitive race orientated ethos and rewarding the few in comparison to the many, rather than a 'sportive ethos', which i think is more about everyone irrespective of ability challenging themselves. i don;t know maybe there is a case for 'Premier League' sportives with associated standards for the 5 days a week riders and something else for the guys like me who try and get out every weekend when able due to work, family etc...wwhen it creeps up towards 30kph for 160km on a hilly course it's not worth me trying to keep up with the pace, which means more time to eat cake 27-28kph more my level.

monty.d

Hi there, i did the cyclone also but wasnt goin to well , managed 5.23 for gold but lost 3mins at the start when they dipped my timing chip and wouldnt let us go then got stuck behind a convoy of tractors for 3 miles which kept having to stop and pull over to let oncommng cars go past, started getting a bit annoyed, good overall event though.

Turnbull2000

monty.d wrote:

Hi there, i did the cyclone also but wasnt goin to well , managed 5.23 for gold but lost 3mins at the start when they dipped my timing chip and wouldnt let us go then got stuck behind a convoy of tractors for 3 miles which kept having to stop and pull over to let oncommng cars go past, started getting a bit annoyed, good overall event though.

I think that happened to everyone.

Great event all round though. Weather was superb! Only bad points were missing a poorly signed right turn and riding the wrong way, chain coming off and losing a good group, and having to adjust my new saddle height after 30 minutes. Felt like both my calves were about to seize up :x

brbelly

also did the cyclone, was heading for a silver but picked up an ankle injury around otterburn and rode the rest of the course in agony.

Did the ride in 7hours 27, riding time was 6 hours 37, but had to stop every 10 miles or so to rest my ankle. thouroughly enjoyed the ride though the view from the top of troughthead was spectacular.

monty.d

I had a hard time looking for the arrows, things need to be in my face before i see them, in the White Rose they had bright neon signs you coulnt miss, just wot i need

the ferry

I missed the right turn also, just before a bridge about 30 miles in.

I was pleased with 5.59 for silver with my extra 3 mile :oops: , thanks to the motercycle marshal BTW.

Just couldn't find a group at the right pace so ended up solo for the whole day.

Overall a throughly enjoyable experience, well done to all those involved.

craiguk

For those who are interested, the times can be found here for the 100 mile ride>>

http://www.sportident.co.uk/results/200 ... C_2008.pdf

Peter Harrison

craiguk wrote:

For those who are interested, the times can be found here for the 100 mile ride>>

http://www.sportident.co.uk/results/200 ... C_2008.pdf

The results should be on the event website tomorrow. We needed to clear up a few queries regarding the races before we sent all results to the web master. Link to photos should soon be active also. The photographers from Marathon Photos took 17,000 photos.

Peter

craiguk

Peter, I would like to say thanks again for another first class well organised event. I've ridden the 100 mile ride twice now and think it's probably the best organised sportive to date. Regarding the feed stops, much better this year with the addition of the Wark stop. Thanks again keep up the good work.

Peter Harrison

craiguk wrote:

Peter, I would like to say thanks again for another first class well organised event. I've ridden the 100 mile ride twice now and think it's probably the best organised sportive to date. Regarding the feed stops, much better this year with the addition of the Wark stop. Thanks again keep up the good work.

results and photos now up and running.
Re Gold/silver/bronze standards and the comments made in an earlier post my stats tell me 10% achieved gold, 30% silver and the remaining 60% bronze. I think this is about right as on a bad day on that route the gold would have been down to 5% or less. Just for the hell of it i'm chucking in a couple of extra rather large climbs next year. One is affectionately known as "vomit pass"

Ken Night

Here are a few of the gold standard percentages of some sportives over the last couple of years

2008...............................% got gold
Dartmoor Classic............... 7.07


Etape du Dales....................15.64
WRC....................................15.43
Dragon Ride .......................18.52

2007
FWC....................................15.66 (called Elite)
WRC................................... 22.10
Iron Mountain- )
Etape (!)...............................2.87
Vaujany
Marmotte.............................38.42
2006
Etape 06............................... 4.94

clanton

Very interesting! I thought the Marmotte times looked generous relative to the others and that makes me feel a little more confident - if only 3% of the field were doing it in 8h49 it would be an insanely tough ride!

Ken Night

clanton wrote:

Very interesting! I thought the Marmotte times looked generous relative to the others and that makes me feel a little more confident - if only 3% of the field were doing it in 8h49 it would be an insanely tough ride!

There were still people rolling in at 13hrs iirc last year

Have I posted stuff about this elsewhere?-the 8h 49m you quote is how long I
suffered/took last year, either that or you are very prescient...?

clanton

Not sure where I found it but I understand this year's standards for the Marmotte are 8h49 for gold, 10h35 for silver for men.

Ken Night

clanton wrote:

Not sure where I found it but I understand this year's standards for the Marmotte are 8h49 for gold, 10h35 for silver for men.

Oh, I see.

gold for me last year was 9h 15m

Does your other half REALLY know what's in store?

bahzob

Thanks for above. I think the mentioned 10/30/60 percentage feels about right as a general guideline. That said, having given it a bit more reflection, I think I quite like the fact that different events have different rules.

I did the Wessex last 2 years, dont have numbers for 2007 but think this year % of golds was
Day 1: 2%
Day 2 1%
(Day 3 was 0% due to appalling weather and course changes)

So pretty challenging. But if you know that then you can prepare for it. Just missed golds in Wessex this year but hoping to get them next and would be a bit disappointed if Wessex changed so that golds were a lot less difficult to come by.

clanton

Ken Night wrote:

clanton wrote:

Not sure where I found it but I understand this year's standards for the Marmotte are 8h49 for gold, 10h35 for silver for men.

Oh, I see.

gold for me last year was 9h 15m

Does your other half REALLY know what's in store?

I think so. She finished days 1 and 2 of the Tour of Wessex, did the Dragon ride on Sunday, Hampshire Hilly Hundred earlier in the year as well as the Hell of the Ashdowns challenge. She also finished the Trans Scotland 7 day MTB stage race last year and is SERIOUSLY determined - she finished the Dragon ride after breaking a spoke 10k in! She's not fast but she can ride all day and tbh I don't have any real doubt she'll finish.

Ken Night

clanton wrote:

[..........and is SERIOUSLY determined - she finished the Dragon ride after breaking a spoke 10k in! She's not fast but she can ride all day and tbh I don't have any real doubt she'll finish.

Good stuff. Good luck

wiffachip

Peter Harrison wrote:

craiguk wrote:

Just for the hell of it i'm chucking in a couple of extra rather large climbs next year. One is affectionately known as "vomit pass"

I did the 62 mile ride and was considering moving up to the 100 next year, subject to getting a new bike, got a 26" wheeled hybrid at the moment.

Might be beyond me though

vomit pass - where's that like ?

coulcher

I know Marmotte times are more generous than Etape but the 2006 comparison figures are probably distorted a little bit as the Etape ending up taking place on the hottest day in the Alps that year with temperatures on Alpe D'Huez reaching 40s C. Regulars had never seen such carnage with bodies strewn on every switchback sheltering in the shade all the way up.

The other distortion is that better standard riders do Marmotte than Etape. Many will enter Etape the way people enter a marathon, as a well-know signature event without really appreciating how tough it is. No one enters the Marmotte without being aware of its challenge. Think of all the ridiculously slow people you pass in the first hour on an Etape who will be swept instantly.

Hoping for a silver this year in Marmotte if I can take a little less time at the time at the stops.

Ken Night

coulcher wrote:

I know Marmotte times are more generous than Etape but the 2006 comparison figures are probably distorted a little bit as the Etape ending up taking place on the hottest day in the Alps that year with temperatures on Alpe D'Huez reaching 40s C. Regulars had never seen such carnage with bodies strewn on every switchback sheltering in the shade all the way up.

The other distortion is that better standard riders do Marmotte than Etape. Many will enter Etape the way people enter a marathon, as a well-know signature event without really appreciating how tough it is. No one enters the Marmotte without being aware of its challenge. Think of all the ridiculously slow people you pass in the first hour on an Etape who will be swept instantly.

Hoping for a silver this year in Marmotte if I can take a little less time at the time at the stops.

...............and it wasn't hot on the Alpe during last year's Marmotte? If anything it was hotter, than the 06 Etape-tho' better supplied with water

I realised this morning, my figures for the Marmotte are distorted-gold for my E (40-50yo)category was 9h 15m, and 38% of the TOTAL field finished under that time

I can't look up last years results but would estimate around 25-30% finished in under 8h 49m

The Etape golds are just hard....you would have had to have finished in the first 150 or so to get a cat C (40-50yo) gold. I would suggest the quality of rider finishing in the first 500 of either event would be similar. You're right, you do get more "challenge" riders in the Etape

coulcher

I'd agree the first 500 probably are similar, although the ease of entry to the Marmotte and avoiding long transfers between start & finish probably means it has more regulars. These regulars are arguably able to target and train for it more effectively.

It was still hot last year but my bike computer said last years Marmotte was a few degrees cooler than 06 Etape. I certainly suffered more in 06 and had real heat stroke concerns climbing the Alpe. My computer recorded 42c but that would have been affected by direct sunlight. Comparing the two years, in 2006 we were in the pens at 6am with no need for any extra layers which was a warning for the day ahead. Didn't need to put on a gillet for any of the descents even off Izoard's 2,361m. In comparison needed something for Glandon & Galibier in 07. Considering how miserable the weather had been all week leading up to it I didn't think it was too hot that day. It was 4c atop Alpe D'Huez climbing it on the Wednesday before!

Let's see what the weather gods have in store for us this year.

Having said all that, yes they do set the Etape gold's harder.

Ken Night

coulcher wrote:

It was 4c atop Alpe D'Huez climbing it on the Wednesday before!

Let's see what the weather gods have in store for us this year.

Having said all that, yes they do set the Etape gold's harder.

You did the Prix de Grandes Rousses-so did I. I've bragged that it was colder than that!