Technique for riding in mud

simonj1234

Basically, I have a XC style route that I regularly do and have recently been steaming around (relatively ) at an ever increasing pace. Then today I attempted it and the surface was loose in comparison to the past few months when it's been dry (let's say the top 1/2 inch was mud). To cut a long story short, I came off 5 times in the space of a mile, twice uphill, once on a jump and twice downhill. It's really made me wonder whether I've actually made any improvements since I started last year.

My question is therefore, is there a limit to the conditions that ANYONE can ride in? These conditions weren't even bad, it was just a light covering of mud that completely destroyed my ride.

On the uphill section I couldn't get any grip whatsoever. If I sat back over the rear of the bike to put weight on the rear wheel the front started skipping around uncontrollably and lifting up, making it feel like I was going to come off the back and losing all directional control. If I put my weight forward, the rear wheel just slipped with every push of the pedals. Anyway, as I was clipped in I just fell over in that comedy fashion! So what's the answer here? I'm riding a GT Avalanche 1.0 with Kenda Nevegals. Is it a case that in some conditions it's just impossible to ride? Or is it because I don't have a clue what I'm doing? Or the bike?

With the downhill sections the bike just felt jittery whenever I put the smallest movement through the handlebars. So much so that it just felt out of control and indeed the front just slipped away twice going around gentle corners. Again, is this just a question of poor technique or is it that some surfaces are impossible to ride with any kind of speed? Is it anything to do with the low quality fork fitted to the Avalanche?

As for the jump, well, I just ballsed that one up, but it turns out holly bushes are actually quite good for breaking your fall when you go over the bars - not as prickly as I expected!!

Anyway, sorry to go on a bit, but it has totally destroyed my morale and obviously I'd like to work out what's going on. Are there any articles on riding technique that someone could point me towards? Could the fork have anything to do with it? I've noticed that's compressing a long way and feels a little squidgy. I'd appreciate any advice.

dave_hill

There's so many variable here it's almost impossible to pin down!

First off, what are your tyre pressures like? If you are riding in wet/loose conditions, lower tyre pressures will increase grip, but the trade off is that you increase rolling resistance and also the risk of pinch-flats.

What sort of terrain are we talking about? Chalk? Limestone? Sandy? Grit stone? Granite? This can have an enormous effect on how a trail rides - for example, chalk or limestone is fine when it's dry, but it's like riding on ice when it's wet.

Weight distribution also isn't just a case of shifting your weight back and forth - you also need to look at where your centre of gravity is. If you shift your weight back but sit bolt upright, your CoG is going to be very high and by pedalling you will be trying to rotate that mass over the back wheel.

Keep your weight back, but at the same time tuck your elbows in, and hunker down over the bars - imagine that you are trying to "press" the bike into the ground. Watch a DVD of MTB racers and you'll see that when they are climbing they keep their bodies very low down over the bike.

Thewaylander

Biggest thing i found in the Wet is tyres, i have put bigger tyres on and run lower pressures(bout30psi) and this aids grip no end, my previous tyre's some skinnier light faster rolling tyres were just a wash out.

you need approach roots and rocks in the straightest line possible too.this helps you stop slipping. the rest is going just a bit slower on the downs as no matter what you will not have the grip you have in the Dry

grantway

You may be better of by trying some winter tyres at the moment has it is pritty bad
out there in places.

forgotrafe

simonj1234 - I could have written that post, am feeling/experiencing the same at present. So I've no guilt in hi-jacking your thread a bit!

First mistake I made was putting summer tyres (conti leaders) on a month or so ago. Then came the rain and it's mud-on-chalk where I ride so lethal. Gone back to my conti vapor tyres which improved things but I still came off last night. Going to drop them to 30 psi next time I'm out in those sort of conditions.

To make matters worse I'm back on clipless which are fantastic for the flats and hills, but scare the life out of me on the downhills. Ruin ride enjoyment because you're always fretting that you might not unclip. Might go back to flats, but first I'm going to check the tension on my shimano clipless though they should be pretty low tension and I keep them very clean/well lubricated.

Came off last night when front wheel hit a ridge of mud (sort of parallel to bike) and bike stopped dead. That usually happens when I'm cycling in ruts (lots of those where I ride) - the front wheel catches the side of one of those and bike dead stops dead.

Confidence has taken a right bashing and ride enjoyment suffering a bit. But like I say, got some more things to try. And in a couple of weeks I'm off for some one-to-one training so that should help.

Also need to get better because falling off is proving expensive. Last nights fall broke mount of my saddle bag, don't know if you can get spares. Time before that I broke the mount for my Edge 205 (£11 inc. postage!) !

Rafe

cee

i think theres a video from the front page videos section that has doddy climbing up a waterfall typed arrangement, that looks like it couldv'e been slippy...

Might that help?

BigJimmyB

Agreed on all the quotes re:tyres, but I also found that gett the bike over properly to let the grip do it's thing can help, if you've been falkling off anyway it's worth a try!

"To make matters worse I'm back on clipless which are fantastic for the flats and hills, but scare the life out of me on the downhills. Ruin ride enjoyment because you're always fretting that you might not unclip. Might go back to flats, but first I'm going to check the tension on my shimano clipless though they should be pretty low tension and I keep them very clean/well lubricated. "

On this note, I've just moved from SPD's to flats and my confidence levels are so much higher now I know I've got a better chance of gettign a dab out/down if I need it. Makes me feel so much better! For trail riding SPD's are great, but add any sharp corners and / or mud, and I rather be on flats. It might be down to experience, but really I think it's down to what suits you best.

Dan67

Control your power. IF your find your rear wheel might be slipping change up a gear to try to keep the power constant( if its a long section of mud slow your cadence down but dont so that it feels that your having to really push). If your in the seat its all about moving your body about in the right postions to arrest the slide. When going into corners load your suspensions into the coner this will force your tyres into the ground which makes more traction.
But nothing beats just getting out and riding in the mud and gaining experience. I used to be rubbish in the mud mainly because i didnt have the attitude to ride in it. But after doing a winter races series this year it forced me to ride in the mud and now i rather enjoy it.

ddw

with tryres think large surface area, so big tread and low pressures, also ride in a slightly higher gear than normal and pump the pedals very smoothly, this should help to avoid rear wheelspin. improve your balance at slow speed by practicing trackstands. hope dome of this is usefull.

s.h.r.e.d

Actually, in mud it can be beneficial to run thinner tyres at higher pressure so you can 'cut' through the gloopy stuff and get grip on the harder ground below

ddw

yeh i guess it depends hop deep it is and iff you are likely to hit anything solid underneath

simonj1234

Thanks for your replies guys. I watched a couple of vids and tried a few things on my last couple of rides.

I opted for some thinner tyres at a lower pressure and tried to keep my bodyweight as low as possible. This helped to keep the front wheel under control but I was still getting a lot of slippage at the rear under power. It doesn't help that my gears are out of tune so getting the right one is pain the arse!

I also agree with the comments about using clipless although I have found the benefits outweigh the disadvantages. The only time they cause problems for me is on the uphills but it doesn't affect my confidence as I've got used to the falls now!

As Dan says, the best thing to do is get out there and repeatedly practice until I can do it! It's the same with everything if you want to get better at it. So I think I'll switch back to flats and keeps nailing the hills!

BigJimmyB

Yep, I guess at the end of the day, if you favour a particular setup IRO tyres and pedals/shoes, you need to be able to run it in all the conditions you come across on your regular ride(s).

delcol

i to was struggling in the mud of winter. esp at my local mudbath of rivington its mostly peat and can turn very muddy in winter,.

the best improvment i did was to put mud tires on i use bontys mud x run a lower presure to.. and just get used to moving round on the bike as for clipless peds i use them i kind of perfected my bailing with them.. try to have an even cadence to stop the wheel spinning..

if you think mud is hard try winterhill when it's snowed. :twisted: