Giro: Will Simoni & RIcco really work together?
Both have much weaker teams than Contador, both on the flats and especially in the mountains. Contador can throw both Leipheimer and Kloden at them (and really either of those guys could be considered a strong mountain climber). So will they work together as has been rumored? Or will they stick to team lines?
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If you really think about this it's Ricco and Simoni that need to attack Contador not the other way round and at the momentI see Contador slowly coming into form. At the end of the day neither Ricco nor Simoni could win the TDF and I'd say that currently AC is about 80% form but really that's all you need if you compare winning the GDT to the TDF.0
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That's an unfair comparison. The two races are very different. Contador even went so far as to say that the climbs in the Giro were harder than in the Tour de France.0
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There actually are a number of cyclists who've never been in the Giro before who have acknowledged that there are aspects of it that are much harder than the TDF (mountains being one of them). It's NOT an easy race and not even an easy GT.
That aside, I wonder how this is going to play out. I actually think it's more likely that Di Luca and Ricco spend all their time attacking than Simoni. I don't know why but I feel like Simoni will take time only by continually riding at a hard pace that eventually the others can't hold instead of using attacks. Maybe not.
What would be cool is to see them not only fight it out in the mountains but to fight for the intermediate sprints (which have time bonuses). That could make this REALLY exciting!0 -
I doubt it - It will probably end up being quite controlled by Astana and possibly Silence-Lotto.
Also, it seems the Italian public have warmed to Bertie.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
iainf72 wrote:I doubt it - It will probably end up being quite controlled by Astana and possibly Silence-Lotto.
Also, it seems the Italian public have warmed to Bertie.
disagree, here's how it will play out.
LPR, SD, CSF, Liqui, and Diqui will send riders up the road in the first part.
Sella, Pellizotti, Ricco, Simoni, Di Luca, Popo, will attack Astana on the bottom half of the Passo.
I reckon Leipheimer and Kloeden will be jettisoned. Dirty Bertie will be isolated. I think that a small group can get away from him. The the Giro GC race is one.
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Possibly but Astana have Gusev and Iglinsky both of whom rested up yesterday. And Iglinsky was up with Bertie in the final a couple of days ago.
Here's the question though - Have Astana and Silence done a deal?Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
Quite possibly, but on the road they will be riding against all the Italians.......possibly...unless they all argue amongst themselves.....0
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All of Simoni, Di Luca and Ricco's friends will be lining up to help....
Erm...
If you could smack one of them in the gob, which one would it be?Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
Ha! Put it this way, it'll be interesting finding out what allegiances form on the day. Ultimately if someone wants to beat Contador they are going to have to find friends to help them and commit to it fully today.0
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iainf72 wrote:Possibly but Astana have Gusev and Iglinsky both of whom rested up yesterday. And Iglinsky was up with Bertie in the final a couple of days ago.
Also Colom, a good climber hasn't done anything ...........yet!0 -
Van den Brouck is ex US Postal, iain, so what do you think? The alliance of non Italian teams will be more effective than the alliance of Italian teams. Menchov will work with Dertie if it means he can get on the podium.0
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micron wrote:Van den Brouck is ex US Postal, iain, so what do you think? The alliance of non Italian teams will be more effective than the alliance of Italian teams. Menchov will work with Dertie if it means he can get on the podium.
Sure - But also thinking back to 05 Lotto worked for Savoldelli. Van Huffel basically saved his backside. Also Silence owe Astana one - If it wasn't for their dodgy business last year Cadel would be coming 2nd at best in the Tour this year.
Why has Contador got a cool doping nickname but Ricco, Simoni, Sella and Di Luca not?Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
micron wrote:Van den Brouck is ex US Postal, iain, so what do you think? The alliance of non Italian teams will be more effective than the alliance of Italian teams. Menchov will work with Dertie if it means he can get on the podium.
micron Iain is referring to 2005 when they helped USPS. Could it happen again?
Bruyneel has virtually transferred Disco to Astana.
Peiper was on Lotto in 05 I think. Now they have an Italian DS.0 -
Too Flat for too long. Bound to leave a big break go up the road and Astana to set a steady tempo, in chase. Much depends on the composition of the group.
If there is a number of decent Italian contender domestiques, there's hope. It it's mostly French and EE, there's not. :roll:
Probably a few will find their GC positions under threat and, once again revert to being sheep. That's why Lotto pulled, yesterday and JVB wasn't really under threat. Also the Bruyneel connection. Menchov's already shown what he'll do. Wheeelsucker turns super-dom.
So as the gap opens, Astana will get help.
On the Vivione, Astana to apply pressure and whittle peloton down to no more than 30 riders. 4 turquoise terrors left.
Astana turn up the heat on the Presolana and cut group to penny numbers. All attacks reeled in by LL and Klod.
Final 2kms and Derties attacks the weakening few, takes stage and some seconds.
Only counter I can see is the only one that's worked in the past. Attack early, mid way up the Vivione, sit up, attack again, sit up, attack again....
Astana domestiques are drilled in tempo climbing, but can't handle pace changes. (not talking LL or Klod, here)
Get to those domestiques, up the road."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
ACMadone wrote:If you really think about this it's Ricco and Simoni that need to attack Contador not the other way round and at the momentI see Contador slowly coming into form. At the end of the day neither Ricco nor Simoni could win the TDF and I'd say that currently AC is about 80% form but really that's all you need if you compare winning the GDT to the TDF.
Utter nonsense. Everyone, including Contador, has said the Giro's climbs are far harder than the Tours. Compare the gradients. The aren't short, either. A popular misconception.
Next to be wheeled out will be the strength of the field.
The real difference is being able to time trial long distances while wielding a super-strong team.
We've had big men out climbing skinny little climbers on uber-steep climbs. Now, we have skinny little climbers out trialing big roulers on uber-long TT's.
What is the world coming to?"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
forearms Van Petegem wrote:
micron Iain is referring to 2005 when they helped USPS. Could it happen again?
Peiper was on Lotto in 05 I think. Now they have an Italian DS.
Did you notice they were riding on the front with Astana yesterday? Maybe they were defending a position but I can't really see it.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
iainf72 wrote:forearms Van Petegem wrote:
micron Iain is referring to 2005 when they helped USPS. Could it happen again?
Peiper was on Lotto in 05 I think. Now they have an Italian DS.
Did you notice they were riding on the front with Astana yesterday? Maybe they were defending a position but I can't really see it.
I am not sure. I don't think Astana needed help yesterday, it might have been a matter of protecting VDB on GC v Cardenas and Bosisio (whatever the LPR rider is)
they could have kept it quick, to help Astana have a breather before today. Cos the attacks will tire them, they will need to have fresh legs.
or, they may have had Cadel Evans in the car, and he might have wanted to have a look at the circuit for worlds, and asked them to string it out to have a look at the difficulty of the parcours.
IT WAS NOT as Kelly pondered, "stringing it out and practise for the Tour and pulling the sprints for Mcewen". I dont know who was pulling, assume de Greef, one other, and Lloyd in third position. None of those guys will be there in July. None pull a flat sprint. Lotto have stopped being a team which pull back a break for Mcewen, and they have never pulled a sprint. Kelly just had to fill dead air. It was crap what he was saying anyhow.0 -
I think we'll find out today.
Yates managed to find a pair of domestiques for Savoldelli, on Finestre, when he needed them, back in 2005. He's good at brokering the odd deal.
Weren't they Ardila and Wim van Huffel, though? Ardila's all Menchov's got and WvH has lost it.
Lotto can do the dog's bodying, on the flat 100 odd k's but then VDB's only got Mattie Lloyd.
Maybe there's a rouler/climber agreement between the teams. If so, I hope Colom, LL and Kloden can live up to their part of the bargain.
The might outnumber the Italian factions, yet!"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
The Italians will need to shake off Klödi and baldy before they can put Contador into difficulty.0
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There's a couple of Gerolsteiner riders going spare and Millram has nothing left to do. Plenty of auxilliaries for Bruyneel to rope into helping today.
Ricco is hated by everyone. Without Piepoli he's friendless. I can't see Simoni working for anybody but himself. Biggest threat is from Di Luca and his doped up goons. I'll bet he's feeling tranquillo.
Also in answer to an earlier question, I'd hit Ricco. No question.It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
I know that, which is why I specifically mnetioned VDBs USPS connection - it's even more blatant this time.
Dirty Bertie Contadope is more successful than Ricco et al - that could be one obvious reason for his doping nickname, along with the company he keeps (The Hog, Manolo Saiz).0 -
Contador is blatantly more talented than Ricco or Di Luca. Simoni, in his way is (at least was) on the same level.
And least he's a humble guy, who respects his team mates and peers and doesn't shoot his gob off.It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
micron wrote:
Dirty Bertie Contadope is more successful than Ricco et al - that could be one obvious reason for his doping nickname, along with the company he keeps (The Hog, Manolo Saiz).
Nothing to do with you being fixated with Bruyneels' squads.
Anyway, not doping name but may I nominate Pricco as name?Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
The Mortirolo is interesting - it's always possible Contador could get dropped on that if he isn't 100% and then there's enough distance to the finish after the descent for things to change quite a lot. It's a lot of ifs though - first off youwouldn't expect Contador to get dropped and if he did the other GC contenders would need men up the road - whether their own or not - to work with to open the gap they'd built going up. Mosty likely scenario is Contador will lose a few seconds on a one or both finishes but make it back in the TT.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
Actually, I really like Contador as a rider but not the company he keeps - I couldn't give a t*ss about Bruyneel's teams except to poke fun and wind up those of you who really care about Discatana - seems I usually succeed as well
Tom, you are right, I think - though Contador isn't the world's greatest descender there is no way that, barring him completely cracking, the others will make up enough time to seriously challenge him especially with a flat TT to come. Whatever Ricco's shortcomings - and this isn't, to quote some rider or other, a personality contest - at least he has won a couple of stages...0 -
I still think someone can unseat Contador. The Mortirolo is far harder than any climb they've done so far with the possible exception of the Fedaia. It will not suit either Kloden or Leipheimer so it will be quite easy to isolate Contador if someone is prepared to gamble everything on a long range attack. Which is, of course, a big if. But Simoni is riding what is probably his last Giro and coming third or fifth doesn't really matter for him.
Contador has been in form for quite some time and I wonder if his lacklustre, by his standards, climbing last weekend was a portent of things to come, i.e. his form is on the wane?0 -
micron, I think you're posting in the wrong place if you want to wind up people who really care about that lot. I haven't seen many of them around these parts. I liken the use of these terms like "Discatana" and "fanboy" to the way militant commuters use the term "cager" - they think they're being really cutting and clever, but unfortunately they're not. And (militant commuters using the term on a bike forum) they are nowhere near to hitting their intended target...Le Blaireau (1)0
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DaveyL wrote:micron, I think you're posting in the wrong place if you want to wind up people who really care about that lot. I haven't seen many of them around these parts. I liken the use of these terms like "Discatana" and "fanboy" to the way militant commuters use the term "cager" - they think they're being really cutting and clever, but unfortunately they're not. And (militant commuters using the term on a bike forum) they are nowhere near to hitting their intended target...
I have a solution, we just call them wankers in Australia.0 -
From what I've read about recent events, that is well deserved (assuming you are talking about motorists, not USPS/Disco fans!).Le Blaireau (1)0
