Hi vis

Jon8a

I currently cycle to work but wear normal (mtb) cycle clothing that's muted colours but with little bits of reflective trim. I have a selection of lights, 2 rear and 1 front as well as reflectors.

I'm hopefully going to be moving and the roads will be busier and the distance twice as far (still only 10miles each way). It's probably worth investing in some hi vis clothing.

I was thinking a couple of short sleeve jerseys from www.cycle-clothing.co.uk but I'm stuck on what jacket to get. It needs to be waterproof sturdy but light. Any suggestoins, budget upto £50?
Also is it worth getting a gilet for the cooler but not cold days.

Or for winter just throw on a high vis waistcoat over my normal waterproof.

Anything else you'd recommend. Having been involved in several near misses, one SMIDSY collision and been clipped once by a wingmirror over the last few years I'd like to be as visible as possible.

P.S.
I'm currently using flats but want to go to spds as well (used to use them on my mtb and still do on my road bike). They have no reflectors though which is a legal requirement I think. What do other people use? I may end up just going with clips so I can use any old shoes but I'll wait for now.

Gussio

Loads of hi-viz options here: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Cate ... goryID=489

The Respro Hump backpack covers are good if you use a rucksack.

ChrisLS

...a high viz waistcoat and/or a ruck sack cover are the cheapest options...

daniel_b

I would recommend this for sheer lightness and visibility:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=11427


For a more substantial jacket, something like this:
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=11886

meanwhile

Jon8a wrote:

I currently cycle to work but wear normal (mtb) cycle clothing that's muted colours but with little bits of reflective trim. I have a selection of lights, 2 rear and 1 front as well as reflectors.

I'm hopefully going to be moving and the roads will be busier and the distance twice as far (still only 10miles each way). It's probably worth investing in some hi vis clothing.

I was thinking a couple of short sleeve jerseys from www.cycle-clothing.co.uk but I'm stuck on what jacket to get. It needs to be waterproof sturdy but light. Any suggestoins, budget upto £50?

Main thing to understand about keeping dry is that your own sweat can be worse than rain if it's trapped in with you. (It smells much worse than rain for one thing!) Get a Montane Featherlite smock, and spray it with Nikwax. It will pack to the size of an apple, cost £40s, and you can wear it conditions where you couldn't wear Goretex or PVC rainwear because of sweat problems. Buy a yellow one. Spray with Nikwax again if the rain starts to leak through. Totally breathable, very waterproof, cheap, and you can always have it handy. No hood, but you can always buy a hat.

The other thing you might think about is getting strobes bright enough to be seen in daylight. Doesn't have to cost much these days - look at the small xenon scuba strobes on ebay.

Jon8a

I think I might just get a high vis vest, I use a courier bag, red, so that should be visible from the rear and not cover the vest

I already own a Altura Nevis Jacket in blue, a montane featherlight jacket in black and a heap of winter jerseys both road and Mtb. So the Nevis in very bad weather, the featherlight when it's a bit chilly/damp, the jerseys when its a bit warmer and then a couple of short sleeved high vis for when it's hot. All with the vest over the top.

Something nice and discreet like this

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=25107

Couple of reflective bands on my wrists to indicate and some on my ankles to replace reflectors.

The idea of commuting by bike is cheap (and fitness) so it seems silly to spend loads. This way I can treat myself to a more expensive jacket for offroad duties.

Eat My Dust

Dare I say it...................don't bother with the hi viz!!! if you have got bright enough lights on the front and back and a car can't see you, a hi viz jacket isn't going to help much. I generally wear black all year round. I can't be bothered with the reasons why, but if you PING BentMikey I'm sure he'll let you know why.

meanwhile

Eat My Dust wrote:

Dare I say it...................don't bother with the hi viz!!! if you have got bright enough lights on the front and back and a car can't see you, a hi viz jacket isn't going to help much. I generally wear black all year round. I can't be bothered with the reasons why, but if you PING BentMikey I'm sure he'll let you know why.

The guy is not necessarily talking about night time. I used to do courier work in all black. It was a mistake. Since then I have seen a cyclist almost killed in day time because he wasn't visible enough in heavy traffic. He was overtaking a long line of jammed cars; a car in the opposite lane pulled across him and splat. Looking at the road view as I went to help the cyclist and phone an ambulance, my judgement was you couldn't really blame the driver. With the amount of time you normally have to make a maneuver in those circumstances, a fast moving cyclist who's riding where most drivers don't expect him, faster than they expect, and who has effectively camouflagued himself, won't get seen. You can do better than black to disappear into the background, but on a dull day, or one with sharp shadows, not without mugging a Predator.

You could argue that drivers should take more much more time for maneuvers, but the pressures of driving in traffic mean this won't happen. Especially once the driver starts to think something has gone wrong and he's under stress. The natural thing for any driver to do is to orient on i. the most likely danger and ii. the danger that can actually hurt him. This means cars. Ped's will come second, because they're frequent.

At night, unless you're riding with strobes pointing everywhere (which is a good idea, but you don't specify this, and most people don't ride that way) high vis matters. Damn few serious accidents are rear or front enders - side swipes and junction collisions are much more common.

Eat My Dust

The last side swipe I saw was a motorcyclist who was wearing a hi vis vest. He had been driving along an empty road when a cager puleed out stright in front of him. He looked in a real bad way and the driver of the car was trapped inside the car the damage was so bad. You could wear a xmas tree on your head with a flashing fairy and some drivers would still manage a SMIDSY.

Eat My Dust

meanwhile wrote:

Even at night, unless you're riding with strobes everywhere (which is a good idea, but you don't specify this, and most people don't ride that way) high vis matters.

I don't use strobes as I cycle on some unlit roads. I do however have nearly 20w of light on the front and 3 extremely bright rear lights in the winter and TBH if I do wear hi viz (I have the H2O featherlight) on extremely rainy journeys I always feel like cars are giving me less room. However I do believe that this could all be in my head!!

meanwhile

Eat My Dust wrote:

The last side swipe I saw was a motorcyclist who was wearing a hi vis vest. He had been driving along an empty road when a cager puleed out stright in front of him. He looked in a real bad way and the driver of the car was trapped inside the car the damage was so bad. You could wear a xmas tree on your head with a flashing fairy and some drivers would still manage a SMIDSY.

This is like saying, "I saw this fire on the news where this guy was killed - and he hadn't even doused himself in petrol. So it's totally safe to walk around covered in the stuff? Would you like some? Cigarette?"

meanwhile

Eat My Dust wrote:

meanwhile wrote:

Even at night, unless you're riding with strobes everywhere (which is a good idea, but you don't specify this, and most people don't ride that way) high vis matters.

I don't use strobes as I cycle on some unlit roads. I do however have nearly 20w of light on the front and 3 extremely bright rear lights in the winter and TBH if I do wear hi viz (I have the H2O featherlight) on extremely rainy journeys I always feel like cars are giving me less room. However I do believe that this could all be in my head!!

I'm sorry to say that your suspicion about drivers giving you less room when they pass is probably correct:

http://www.bath.ac.uk/news/articles/arc ... 10906.html

Drivers pass closer when overtaking cyclists wearing helmets than when overtaking bare-headed cyclists, increasing the risk of a collision, the research has found.

Dr Ian Walker, a traffic psychologist from the University of Bath, used a bicycle fitted with a computer and an ultrasonic distance sensor to record data from over 2,500 overtaking motorists in Salisbury and Bristol.

Dr Walker, who was struck by a bus and a truck in the course of the experiment, spent half the time wearing a cycle helmet and half the time bare-headed. He was wearing the helmet both times he was struck.

He found that drivers were as much as twice as likely to get particularly close to the bicycle when he was wearing the helmet.

So the same thing is probably the case with high viz, especially if worn with lycra and a helmet. In fact, that combo, a nice bike, and a pair of Oakleys will probably get you lynched:

“We know from research that many drivers see cyclists as a separate subculture, to which they don’t belong,” said Dr Walker.

“As a result they hold stereotyped ideas about cyclists, often judging all riders by the yardstick of the lycra-clad street-warrior.

“This may lead drivers to believe cyclists with helmets are more serious, experienced and predictable than those without.

“The idea that helmeted cyclists are more experienced and less likely to do something unexpected would explain why drivers leave less space when passing.

The Helmet Propaganda Machine doesn't tell people this but:

“We know helmets are useful in low-speed falls, and so definitely good for children, but whether they offer any real protection to somebody struck by a car is very controversial.

And I emphasize the low-speed part. A "good" current helmet is designed for a fall of about 12mph.

So my new strategy is use strobes and to dress as a vicar.

meanwhile

Oh - and I bet a messenger bag will get you more hassle as well, especially in cities where they work. Something to think about.

clanton

Hi vis I think is good for daytime riding but at night is useless as it is above the beams of the cars. GOOD lights as above and the ankle reflectors are the way forward.

cjw

meanwhile wrote:

The Helmet Propaganda Machine doesn't tell people this but:

“We know helmets are useful in low-speed falls, and so definitely good for children, but whether they offer any real protection to somebody struck by a car is very controversial.

And I emphasize the low-speed part. A "good" current helmet is designed for a fall of about 12mph.

So my new strategy is use strobes and to dress as a vicar.

Ohhhhh Goody. Another helmet thread :roll:

To save time....

1. Helmets are good, they saved my life
2. Helmets didn't save your life and at best they do no harm
3. Bollocxs
4. With knobs on
5. Your mother is a hamster
6. And your father smells of elderberries

Repeat for 59 pages...

Jon8a

The bag is one of these so hardly the fakenger look



I am aware of the arguements for not wearing high viz but have decided too anyway. I'll also be wearing a helmet. I broke my last one on someones bonnet/the tarmac.

I will get a better light for the front, the one I have now is a 3 LED, it will get me noticed but I want to be blinding people so they think they are about to get run over by an HGV.

And I agree, when I drive anything bright that moves is best so ankle bands if I don't have pedal reflectors.[/url]

meanwhile

Re. the bag - I'm saying that everyone should rush and replace them with a straw basket!

But re that bag - I think you're somewhat overestimating the typical motorist's knowledge of the nuances of cycling fashion...

Jon8a

maybe, but I don't wear my sisters jeans with one leg rolled up. I am riding a singlespeed but a mtb.

squired

Don't have a link as it was many years ago, but I remember a study that showed you were no safer wearing high viz on a bike. Maybe there have been one or two studies since that showed the opposite. I'm sure high viz has its uses, but if someone isn't looking it doesn't matter what you are doing or wearing.

Jon8a

When I'm in my car I notice people in high viz hundreds of meters away at night, not sure it makes as much difference in daylight. It won't make me any less visible.