GPS and SatNav

crafty

Forgive me but I'm confused.

Could someone straighten me out on the difference between GPS devices like the Garmins and SatNavs like the TomToms. Are they based on the same idea and is it possble to use either on your bike (power supply withstanding)??

Ed

BlackSpur

You can't really use a TomTom on your bike - street maps only, no fitting bracket, voice command would be next to useless. A GPS unit with OS maps loaded is a much better prospect - can be fitted to your bars and you can plot routes over any terrain.

nicklouse

GPS and sat nav are terms for the same thing.

what the boxes do depends on what you buy.

crafty

Thanks. I'm riding a lot into the wilds of Mid Wales this summer and feel some kind of GPS device would serve me well, particularly on the hills from Llandovery to Tregaron. Any GPS with OS maps boxes you guys recommend?

Ed

BlackSpur

Garmin Edge 605 or 705 are both great pieces of kit.

stumpyjon

^^not sure you can actually view OS maps on any of the Garmin units, they'll only show Garmin Topo GB which is vector based mapping software and is a bit limited. You can however use the OS mapping software (e.g. Memory Map or Tracklogs) on your PC to plan routes and review where you've been afterwards.

I've got a Garmin Vista HCx which can be used on the bike (with attachment for the bars etc.) and can be used as Satnav in the car as well, if you want that functionality you need to choose a Garmin unit with turn by turn functionality. You do need to do quite a lot of research to make sure you get a unit that will do what you want. Not all units display maps on screen, some just record where you've been and give you directional info on where to go. Some are designed more as training aids (Garmin 205 & 305) which can do things like record heart rate etc.

The garmin website is a fairly good place to start but I believe there are other manufacturers out there now with quite credible (and possibly better units). Just don't forget to budget for mapping software if that's the route you want to go down, for example Garmin Topo GB is about £ 100 (it doesn't come with the unt :evil: ) which you will need if you want on screen mapping and the PC based OS software isn't cheap either, Tracklogs cover the country at 1:25000 scale but each map is £ 25, Memory Map is more based around 1:50000 (also do some 1:25000) and is also pretty expensive.

crafty

I'm really looking for a turn-by-turn unit (much like a car satnav).

This is where it gets confusing. If the B roads through mid Wales aren't covered, I'll save my money and stock up on maps. It seems a shame that with car satnavs becoming so cheap and useable, the same isn't happening with so much with hand held devices. As I say, I know nothing about these things..

Ed

janwal

Hi Crafty,this may be of interest.It's the Garmin 250 cycling satnav In PC world down to under £50.SAme one on Amazon is just under £100.

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/martprd/store/ ... ge=Product

Anonymous

I don't think the garmin 250 is a navigation device, it's purely for training, like a clever cycle computer, which uses GPS instead of a magnet/pickup on your wheel.

Chris`I

yeehaamcgee wrote:

I don't think the garmin 250 is a navigation device, it's purely for training, like a clever cycle computer, which uses GPS instead of a magnet/pickup on your wheel.

It is and it isnt. True it is not marketed as a Navigation device, but you can make it work. For example using BikeHike ( http://www.bikehike.co.uk ) you can knock up a route and using Training Center you can load it to the 205. It will then give you a plotted route to follow. However, this is just a line, it doesnt show any roads or directions, just a line to follow. For me around my local area, this is fine to follow new routes that you dont know. Saying that, I dont think I would trust it to get me around roads that I really dont know. I definately wouldnt travel off road with it. For that you really need the 605/705.

The problem with those units, as you say is that you dont get full topo maps as standard. You get "base maps" which from what I can gather is roads only. Agreed, it is discraceful that this stuff costs so much, but I beleive most of this cost comes from map licenses. TomTom do their thing on such a big scale, that they get a massive saving on map licenses. You would think Garmin would too, which is probably true for road data, but off road map data is still expensive for them I guess (compartive volumes of off road users would be massively smaller than road users of normal satnav). As with everything it will become cheaper as more people use it but for now it costs a lot!

crafty

Part of my Summer route takes me from Llandovery to Tregaron.

http://tinyurl.com/3nw7xn

You can see the quieter route shown consists of very fine lines which would've originally been tracks. These 'tracks' (as some of you will know) are actually proper roads.

So, if you ignore the obvious route by main road to the south and take the more direct (and scenic) route throught the hills, you can see a GPS system would be extremely beneficial, particularly if you wanted to explore the area.

Assuming the Garmin 605/705 has the entire UK road system to hand, would these hill roads be included in the software to plot the route? My point being, if not, we're back to packing the maps. I can only see devices like the Garmins coming into their own on routes like this (away from the main roads).

Ed

Chris`I

I think you would have to goto Garmin Tech Support to get answers to that question. As (it appears - I only skimmed the route) you are sticking to roads, then you could technically follow the 205. However you would need to place trust in it, as you are following a line. For instance if you come to some crossroads, it wont show you that on the device, only a line into the distance. However, I have followed it around a few local routes and it does plot accurately. You could go for a solution where you use something like the 205 and have maps in your bag too. You would really have to trust the unit though.

stumpyjon

Any Garmin that uses the Topo GB maps on screen will show pretty much all roads. This should include the 605/705 and a number of models in the Etrex range such as my Vista HCx. In fact whether I am using the Topo software on the PC or on the GPS I actually get access to massive amounts of data, one of the functions on the Etrex with the Topo GB loaded is to show you local restaurants, shops etc. It even has house numbers on it!

My Etrex Vista HCx (H stands for high sensitivity GPS reception, can't remeber what the C's for, x is for expandable memory) takes micro SD memory cards and I've managed to get the whole of the UK on one 2Gb card (£15 quid off Ebay for the card).

If you're road riding then the detail should be more than adequate, you can either plot the route out beforehand (on PC or on the unit, PC's easier) or get the unit to automatically plot the route following roads.

The lack of detail I was refering to earlier was more to do with things like paths and bridleways not always being shown and some features like streams and forests not being totally accurate.

When following the route you can use the unit like a standard satnav in the car where it shows you which direction to turn (it automatically swaps to map mode for junctions) or you can follow the predefined route on screen. The unit draws your route over the map detail on screen and also plots the actual route you've taken in real time so it's very easy to see if you've deviated.

clarkson

stumpyjon wrote:

Any Garmin that uses the Topo GB maps on screen will show pretty much all roads. This should include the 605/705 and a number of models in the Etrex range such as my Vista HCx. In fact whether I am using the Topo software on the PC or on the GPS I actually get access to massive amounts of data, one of the functions on the Etrex with the Topo GB loaded is to show you local restaurants, shops etc. It even has house numbers on it!

My Etrex Vista HCx (H stands for high sensitivity GPS reception, can't remeber what the C's for, x is for expandable memory) takes micro SD memory cards and I've managed to get the whole of the UK on one 2Gb card (£15 quid off Ebay for the card).

If you're road riding then the detail should be more than adequate, you can either plot the route out beforehand (on PC or on the unit, PC's easier) or get the unit to automatically plot the route following roads.

The lack of detail I was refering to earlier was more to do with things like paths and bridleways not always being shown and some features like streams and forests not being totally accurate.

When following the route you can use the unit like a standard satnav in the car where it shows you which direction to turn (it automatically swaps to map mode for junctions) or you can follow the predefined route on screen. The unit draws your route over the map detail on screen and also plots the actual route you've taken in real time so it's very easy to see if you've deviated.

thtas like what im after too. where did you get your from jon and how much?

Dax

I have one of these http://www.memory-map.co.uk/road_angel_ ... satnav.htm
You can get them from the Argos and Halfords but make sure you get the Adventurer and not the Navigator as the former is the only one that comes with the OS memory map stuff. (though I am told that you can download a patch for the navigator).
It comes with a windscreen mount and is a pretty good car satnav with full uk post code street level stuff and a bike mount is only £20.
The battery on mine is good for about 6 hours with the screen on all the time at 50% brightness.
The OS map doesn’t rotate like the street map does it will always show north up but if you plot a route or download one from the net you can set it to follow and it will tell you when to turn and what direction.
Be warned though the supplied OS maps are only for the national parks and anything extra costs more.
I think the whole of Wales is £50.

Bighead

Hi I use a Garmin Legend Cx with Topo Maps. I find it very useful. I have managed to navigate along a 90 miles one way ride without maps without any difficulty (I didn't insert the memory card properly so I didn't get the maps displayed). It has taken quite a hammering but it still seems to work fine. The two AA batteries seem to last a very long time. If you are interested I would suggest looking on the mtbr.com forum for GPS devices.

stumpyjon how are you mounting yours to the handlebars? I have the Garmin mount but it didn't appear to secure it all that well so I switched it to a RAM mount.

Here is a photo of mine (with the Garmin mount):

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/bighead32 ... 5022652690

harpel1

I have a HTC phone that runs on Windows mobile 6, this will run both Tom Tom and Memory Map OS. So you can user it in the car to get where you are starting your ride with the Tom Tom and then switch on the Memory-Map OS and you are off on you ride, you can also pre load you route on to Memory-Map via your PC.

It works well for me.
lee

crafty

Thank you everyone.

You've been really helpful.

Ed