Driving in cycle lane?

Sailingalong

I'm passenger in a car where the driver's a right berk. Cars are travelling quite slowly, as they're positioning themselves for a right turn and he decides to drive in the cycle lane to pass them on the inside and also does this when he can squeeze through any other time.
He says it's perfectly legal to drive in a cycle lane, I don't know the law, but we had a real "set to".

Anybody know who's right?

mrchrispy

My understanding is that if its a broken white line then there is nothing to stop him as the lane is only advisory, the guy is clearly a spoon. :roll:

beverick

Sailingalong wrote:

I'm passenger in a car where the driver's a right berk. Cars are travelling quite slowly, as they're positioning themselves for a right turn and he decides to drive in the cycle lane to pass them on the inside and also does this when he can squeeze through any other time.
He says it's perfectly legal to drive in a cycle lane, I don't know the law, but we had a real "set to".

Anybody know who's right?

It is not illegal to drive in an advisory cycle lane (ie one bounded by a broken white line) at any time or to drive in a mandatory cycle lane (one bounded by a solid white line) outside of it's stated hours of operation. However, you may be committing another offence: typically careless driving or possibly obstruction if there is a cyclist present.

Bob

beverick

mrchrispy wrote:

My understanding is that if its a broken white line then there is nothing to stop him as the lane is only advisory, the guy is clearly a spoon. :roll:

If there is nothing to stop him why is he a 'spoon'?

In the presence of right turning queuing traffic is perfectly acceptable to pass on the left, as it is to use the whole of the available road surface.

Bob

cee

beverick wrote:

If there is nothing to stop him why is he a 'spoon'?
Bob

for the same reason that you had a set to with him i suppose.

mrchrispy

until proof is otherwise observed all drivers are spoons (myself included)

hoathy

I was under the impression that you shouldn't drive in a cycle lane unless it is "unavoidable" and that sounds avoidable to me. Did he check that there were no cyclists in his mirror/blind spot before doing it? If not the guy deserves a smack.

beverick

Hoathy wrote:

I was under the impression that you shouldn't drive in a cycle lane unless it is "unavoidable" and that sounds avoidable to me. Did he check that there were no cyclists in his mirror/blind spot before doing it? If not the guy deserves a smack.

Hmm. This falls into the same category of circum navigating a mini roundabout insofar as is it legal to go over the paintwork or MUST you go around.

A good test of logic is to reverse the situation. So lets assume that your in a car and following another vehicle along a road in line with priority. It's a two lane, two-way road with an advisory cycle lane to your near side - a common enough layout.

Ahead, stationary traffic in your lane is queuing to turn right, but there is insufficient space to pass the queue to the left and remain in your lane. However, using the otherwise empty advisory cycle lane there is more than sufficient space to pass.

I'd have said that there was prima facie evidence that the driver in front of you was causing an obstruction if they failed to use the cycle lane but ultimately I think it would be up to the courts to decide.

Bob

Sailingalong

Thanks for all your replies.
Just done a bit of trawling around and found this. Don't know whether it's "set in stone though".

http://www.northshorecity.govt.nz/trans ... y/faq.html

cee

Sailingalong wrote:

Thanks for all your replies.
Just done a bit of trawling around and found this. Don't know whether it's "set in stone though".

http://www.northshorecity.govt.nz/trans ... y/faq.html

Maybe in New Zealand where this document comes from. Also notice the compulsory helmets clause in there.

secretsam

There was a moped rider in a bike lane in London the other day - the segregated, definitely bikes only type of bike lane.

Someone politely pointed this out to the moped (ridden by a young, trendy, don't give a f :evil: ck type), and he replied:

"So What?"

This rather irritated me, so I told him he was a f :!: g tw :!: t and rode off

Sailingalong

cee wrote:

Sailingalong wrote:

Thanks for all your replies.
Just done a bit of trawling around and found this. Don't know whether it's "set in stone though".

http://www.northshorecity.govt.nz/trans ... y/faq.html

Maybe in New Zealand where this document comes from. Also notice the compulsory helmets clause in there.

Oh yeah.
Sorry about that. :oops:

SmellTheGlove

mrchrispy wrote:

until proof is otherwise observed all drivers are spoons (myself included)

If only all drivers were that good...

NorwegianBlue

IIRC It was advised in the first edition of the highway code that "one should assume that all road users are spoons." Well not in those words, but the meaning was the same. Nothing's changed. I assume that all road users are spoons; peds, cyclists, motorcyclists, drivers, horse riders, you name it. Assume they're an eejit and you won't go far wrong.

Peasoup

in my experience the problem is that when a car reaches a queue, and has the opportunity to save time by taking the cycle path (dotted or solid - it don't matter!), they tend to switch path rapidly (wouldn't want be slowed, or heaven forbid possibly have someone else beat them to the quicker route etc.) without considering whether anyone might be (legitmately) in the lane already.

NorwegianBlue

I think some drivers think the rules don't apply to them, but...

I also think it's one of those things that depends on how long it is since the driver passed their test. It is incumbent upon us all as road users to keep up to date with new legislation, but how many of us do? If you were not a cyclist would you know the difference between the two types of cycle lane? Cycle lanes weren't mentioned in the highway code when I learned to drive, and I think that a lot of drivers probably aren't aware that they're not allowed to cross those solid lines. Now this is of course not an excuse, but it is a likely reason for this bad driving.

I don't think the signing helps either. As a result of this thread I took a look at a few road signs when I was out today. The bus lanes I saw tended to have a sign and road markings clearly stating "Buses Only". The cycle lanes I saw mostly just had an icon of a bike. Again, not excusable, but another likely reason.

Most drivers avoid bus lanes, even at times when they are allowed to drive in them. I think that's because they are well aware that they could be fined. However how many drivers are aware they could be fined for driving in a cycles lane? Unlikely though it is.

Alibran

NorwegianBlue wrote:

Cycle lanes weren't mentioned in the highway code when I learned to drive, and I think that a lot of drivers probably aren't aware that they're not allowed to cross those solid lines.

Any solid white line (stop lines being the exception) means "only cross in an emergency". This applies to the white lines down the middle of the road, lines around hatching, the white line that marks the edge of the carriageway on many major roads, the white line that separates the hard shoulder from the main carriageway on a motorway, as well as solid white lines separating cycle lanes from the main carriageway. Can you really say there are people out there who don't know they're not supposed to cross solid white lines?

NorwegianBlue

Unfortunatley this isn't true. For example, I drove into a bus lane with a solid white line today, nothing illegal about it, the bus lane only operates monday to friday. Then there's a few spots round here where you can cross the solid line bus lane to turn off the main road or to pull out onto the main road. That's just a couple of situations I can think of where it's legal to cross a solid white line, neither of which constitute an emergency. I'm sure there are more, but that would take more effort than I can muster at the moment.

Bassjunkieuk

Alibran wrote:

NorwegianBlue wrote:

Cycle lanes weren't mentioned in the highway code when I learned to drive, and I think that a lot of drivers probably aren't aware that they're not allowed to cross those solid lines.

Any solid white line (stop lines being the exception) means "only cross in an emergency". This applies to the white lines down the middle of the road, lines around hatching, the white line that marks the edge of the carriageway on many major roads, the white line that separates the hard shoulder from the main carriageway on a motorway, as well as solid white lines separating cycle lanes from the main carriageway. Can you really say there are people out there who don't know they're not supposed to cross solid white lines?

I'd say yes! My parents live in central Croydon on one of the main roads which the trams run along. The trams run both ways along the road and as they run on rails they can't swerve to avoid cars and haven't got the best brakes! For this reason most of the line down the middle of the road is a solid white line, meaning that when the trams stop at one of the 2 (one each way) stops you have to wait behind them until they move off - which normally takes no more then 30 seconds or so. This however doesn't stop some drivers from taking their lives in their hands and overtaking the trams when they are stopped despite the solid white lines down the middle. The road also has several bus routes that run along it which also adds to the potential dangers coming the opposite way.

On one of my commutes along the LCN towards Kingston/Surbiton on the road that crosses the railway lines near Motspur Park station I normally have to come out of the bike lane to avoid 3 or 4 cars that are parked on the yellow lines obstructing the cycle lane, this is the advisory lane on the residential side and I rarely have the same problem on the way home which has a compulsory lane running down the opposite side of the road.

Sailingalong

Oh well. Things aren't looking too good for me then.
Had a look today and the line in question is broken and to "Peasoup".... It's on Garstang road in Preston so you should know it.

Peasoup

Is that the stretch between the withy trees and black bull (you can tell where I've spent my formative years)? can always have potential disaster along there with a main trunk route, many side roads, traffic islands etc.

I find strand rd to be pretty bad. Heading towards umbertos chippy I often get cars (turning left toward b'pool) jinking to the cycle lane to avoid the queued traffic on the right.
...And don't get me started on the new cycle path on the other side. A fortune spent widening the footpath, to make it shared use with pedestrians, road signs, barriers etc., designed to inconvenience any serious/commuting cyclist so much that it is absolutely chocloate teapot-esque. total waste of money.

rant over

Sailingalong

Peasoup wrote:

Is that the stretch between the withy trees and black bull (you can tell where I've spent my formative years)? can always have potential disaster along there with a main trunk route, many side roads, traffic islands etc.

You are correct. (small world) Used to be 40mph, now 30.

snooks

Peasoup wrote:

in my experience the problem is that when a car reaches a queue, and has the opportunity to save time by taking the cycle path (dotted or solid - it don't matter!), they tend to switch path rapidly (wouldn't want be slowed, or heaven forbid possibly have someone else beat them to the quicker route etc.) without considering whether anyone might be (legitmately) in the lane already.

Yep happens all to often on the New Kings Road....but luckily it's easy to spot right turning cars and therefore guess what the speed spanners are about to do with no warning or consideration...ho hum

whome

Alibran wrote:

Any solid white line (stop lines being the exception) means "only cross in an emergency".

Wrong - or at least far too simplistic.

Solid white lines marking Bus lanes do not mean that - vehicles allowed into the lane can cross where they like.

Solid white lines down the centre don't mean that - for a start it would have to be a double white line, and then only if the solid line was nearest you and then there are a bunch of exceptions like turning into a driveway or overtaking some slow vehicles (inlcuding cycles).

And I don't believe that solid white lines at the edge of the road mean that either.