hard tail or normal which is best

feaseyrider

i've been commuting for about 18months know and looking to upgrade,i'm currently using a very cheap catologue full suspension (which was a birthday gift) bike but i'm fed up with dodgy bearing and weird creekin noise's, i'd like a good (not pricey) commuter i have an idea of what i want but having never commuted on either a normal or a hard tail i'm a little confused .....please point my pedals the right way........

happy commuting
martin

Gambatte

Ooooh, budget full sus bike..... you poor sod Things'll feel a lot better with the next bike - Honest!

Thing you'll find is that a cheap full sus bike doesn't really have suspension, it has a couple of springs which main function is to soak up power that should be going through the pedals to the wheels. The other thing is that by supplying 'extra' components the value of the rest of the bike suffers (e.g frame weight goes up etc.)

If your commutes on the road you wont need any form of suspension. Personally, I lock out the front suspension on the MTB on the road.

If you go for non sus forks your budget can go on other areas of the bike.

If you've been commuting on the cheap full sus, you've got a nice surprise coming.

I'd check out Decathlons range (B'Twin)

http://www.btwincycle.com/EN/

They've a rep for well specced bikes at good prices

redddraggon

Road bikes are unbeatable for road going commuting

Gambatte

feaseyrider,
Question: Can you describe your commute. Road, canal path, cycle lane etc.

If road I'd agree 100% with reddragon - especially if you wouldn't be wanting to expand use to cover trails etc

NorwegianBlue

I'd recommend fully rigid, but not a road bike. If you're not used to drops then you won't just take to them over night after riding your no doubt rather upright bargain basement bike. At any given price point (and you don't mention your budget) a rigid bike will tend to have better components.

That's something the newbie tends to miss - spend money on one component and the other components will have to be cheaper. So basically try to do away with complexity if you want a cheap but reasonable quality bike.

Tell us your budget and I'm sure you'll start getting specific recommendations.

tardington

Exactly.

Also check around for second hand places in your area - the Bike Station in edinburgh will sell you a pretty decent reconditioned bike (road, hybrid or hardtail) for forty quid or so.

I like the Edinburgh Bikes Courier range for simple, well made hybrid bikes.

Gambatte

NorwegianBlue wrote:

If you're not used to drops then you won't just take to them over night after riding your no doubt rather upright bargain basement bike.

Having said that. I took to drops and skinny tyres, no problem, alongside these 2.





The 1st - very upright and 26x3" tyres.

If you don't like the idea of drops, consider a 'flat bar roady' before a hybrid?

I believe Decathlons in the process of renewing its range, maybe some bargains there with the old models?

NorwegianBlue

tardie wrote:

I like the Edinburgh Bikes Courier range for simple, well made hybrid bikes.

Couldn't agree more.

And a perenial commuting favourite is the Kona Smoke, available at a similiar price.

The new Smoke has 700c wheels, so that means the old 26" wheeled model can be had at a bargain price. Chainreaction have them at £220 for the 2006 model.

Unless you're the sort of person who has to have this year's model then it's generally a good idea to look out for dealers selling last years (or earlier bikes) at bargain prices. Often this year's bike is no better than last year's, but you can make significant savings buying last year's model. You need to spend more time searching for bike in your size, because the end of line bargains are often in unusual sizes. For example Evans have the 2007 GT Noman at £149, a saving of £100, but only in small and extra small.

feaseyrider

my commute is mainly rural maybe with the odd detour on good roads every now and then ....
i'm was looking at buying new but the prices are out of my league so a second hand bike will serve my purpose price wise £50-£150
i'd like to attach a rack withh panniers and have wrap-around mudgards (no more tasty road grit first thing in the morning
that's about it
thanks for your advice here it's a great help
martin

bornagainbiker

Without question your best bet is a carrera subway from halfords or there are always a few for sale on ebay. Highly recommended!

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... ryrn_60956

10% off too.

NorwegianBlue

If you're looking for something with guards and rack in that price range used or new I would recommend you buy something with them already fitted. Retro fitting them will take too much out of your budget.

You can still get something new to suit for your budget like this but bear in mind you will probably find yourself wanting to upgrade various components after a fairly short time. You will also find on cheaper bikes some components, like the bottom bracket, wear out in fairly short order so you'll end up replacing them. Which may sound like an arument for buying used, but bear in mind that a used bike will already have lots of well warn components.
Worn brakes, tyres, bearings, frayed cables and other generally worn out components can end up turning an apparent bargain into a money pit. I know the problem well as I don't have the wherewithal to buy a quality new bike.

Having said all that the £150 Raleigh will probably be better quality than your budget full susser.

Cheers,

GJ

bornagainbiker

I don't really subscribe to the "because its cheap it wears out quickly" school of thought. I have a CHEAP Subway 8 (cost me £300 3yrs ago) I've done no maintenance to it save for occasional chain lubing. Its lived outside under a plastic sheet. The last few weeks the cranks/BB had begun creaking so I eventually got around to taking the (square taper) cranks off and removed the BB. The BB undid very easily and I suspect was just a bit loose . So I cleaned it up and regreased the theads and whacked it all back together. Took around 1/2 hr and its as good as new. In 3 yrs I've probably covered around 1500miles and its cost me nothing as its on original parts. I did change the suspension post for a standard (much lighter) seatpost but that was down to personal choice rather than component failure.

So please don't go thinking that just because its 'cheap' it must be crap there is alot of bike snobbery from people who have never owned or even ridden what they slag off.

cheers.

redddraggon

bornagainbiker wrote:

I don't really subscribe to the "because its cheap it wears out quickly" school of thought.

I do, my Carrera Virtuoso I bought for commuting hasn't lasted 12months, it needs a good few parts swapping on it.

Gambatte

redddraggon wrote:

bornagainbiker wrote:

I don't really subscribe to the "because its cheap it wears out quickly" school of thought.

I do, my Carrera Virtuoso I bought for commuting hasn't lasted 12months, it needs a good few parts swapping on it.

Undiscounted £170 Decathlon, race style, roady. Done 1500 miles. Only maintenance it's needed has been a bit off cable adjustment after the first hundred, due to the expected cable stretch.

Compared to petrol costs, it paid for itself long ago.

redddraggon

Gambatte wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

bornagainbiker wrote:

I don't really subscribe to the "because its cheap it wears out quickly" school of thought.

I do, my Carrera Virtuoso I bought for commuting hasn't lasted 12months, it needs a good few parts swapping on it.

Undiscounted £170 Decathlon, race style, roady. Done 1500 miles. Only maintenance it's needed has been a bit off cable adjustment after the first hundred, due to the expected cable stretch.

Compared to petrol costs, it paid for itself long ago.

The Virtuoso is on it's 3rd rear mech, first set of wheels binned, front mech is on it's way out, cable need replacing, brake calipers are a load of shyte and need replacing. The frame and forks are still good though, but I've only got 8 days of commuting left before I finish my job, but if I start commuting again I might fit the bike with some better components.

I also had one of those Decathlon Road bikes, good quality bike apart from the chainset which broke after 100 or so miles, and then the replacement chainset broke after a week, they wouldn't fix it again so I go my money back. But I was happy with the bike, I would have been happy if they'd put a proper chainset on it e.g. a Tiagra one and I would have added some money to it but they wouldn't fix it at all, but they would give me the money back.

Gambatte

Hmm... Before I started commuting I had a few months on the MTB. Had a look online and met up with a few like minded folk. One of them, Stew, had a Brand new Halfords Carrera. He's still got it. Only thing is its only the seat and seatpost thats original.
Things like going downhill and the frontwheel suddenly doing an impression of a pretzel. The resulting 'off' caused damage to the gear changers. A couple more incidents meant the bike was virtually 100% replaced over a period of a couple of months.
Wonder if its something about the Carreras?

bornagainbiker

With respect "halfords carrera" doesn't really tell us alot. They have quite a few models under the carrera brand.
I specifically mentioned the Subway because I've actually owned one and seeing as its based on an MTB with 26" wheels its more than robust enough for its intended use of commuting.

redddraggon

bornagainbiker wrote:

With respect "halfords carrera" doesn't really tell us alot. They have quite a few models under the carrera brand.

I did say "Virtuoso" twice........

bornagainbiker

Reddraggon

My reply was to the previous post nothing to do with your post :?

NorwegianBlue

bornagainbiker wrote:

I don't really subscribe to the "because its cheap it wears out quickly" school of thought. I have a CHEAP Subway 8 (cost me £300 3yrs ago)

Firstly the Subway Eight isn't all that cheap, even three years ago the list price was well over £300. About £370 at the time I think. The bikes we were recommending (Kona Smoke and Revolution Courier) list at below £300. So your bike is actually quite expensive by the standards of this discussion.

Had you bothered to read my post properly you would have seen that the cheap bike I mentioned was a Raleigh Savannah for £149 list. This is the sort of bike I was suggesting would wear out quickly. Your comments on the longivity of your Carrera actually support what I was saying rather than disproving it.

I suggest that you read threads more carefully in future rather than leaping in with both feet and making a fool of yourself.

GJ

bornagainbiker

So just because i spend £300 for a bike that originally cost £370+ its too expensive for this debate?! It was the end of season sale price. Its STILL a Halfords Carrera !!

So to get back to the original post I still rate the SUBWAY range of bikes simply because they are burly MTB inspired commuters.

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... way-1-8831

redddraggon

NorwegianBlue wrote:

Firstly the Subway Eight isn't all that cheap, even three years ago the list price was well over £300.

Nah, that's pretty cheap for a decent bike. It also seems pretty well specced for the price though.

There's a Subway that's been parking up next to my bike recently, it's got hub gearing and looks pretty nifty. Although I wouldn't swap it for Veloce/Centaur road bike I'm commuting on until the end of my placement.

NorwegianBlue

redddraggon wrote:

NorwegianBlue wrote:

Firstly the Subway Eight isn't all that cheap, even three years ago the list price was well over £300.

Nah, that's pretty cheap for a decent bike. It also seems pretty well specced for the price though.

It's still expensive when compared to the Smoke & Courier which were the main bikes under discussion.

NorwegianBlue

bornagainbiker wrote:

So just because i spend £300 for a bike that originally cost £370+ its too expensive for this debate?! It was the end of season sale price. Its STILL a Halfords Carrera !!

So to get back to the original post I still rate the SUBWAY range of bikes simply because they are burly MTB inspired commuters.

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... way-1-8831

You seem to be missing the point. I suggested that a £150 bike would wear out quickly and you seemed to take offence and used a bike costing more than twice as much as your main argument. Since it cost even more than the two bikes suggested earlier in the post it seems to me that you hadn't read the thread and only read one sentence.

BTW I don't even think the Raleigh under discussion would object to 1500 miles in three years. That only amounts to a commute of a little over a mile each way.

Gambatte

bornagainbiker wrote:

With respect "halfords carrera" doesn't really tell us alot. They have quite a few models under the carrera brand.
I specifically mentioned the Subway because I've actually owned one and seeing as its based on an MTB with 26" wheels its more than robust enough for its intended use of commuting.

Reddragons was a Virtuoso, I'm sure the mates was a Kraken - Similar price range to my Avalanche 2.0.

He's still got it, although Halfords upgraded a few parts and he's slowly upgrading the rest.

Might not have been due to problems with Carreras, it seems finding a reliable Halfords can be down to luck. We had a story a couple of weeks ago (it was on the commuting section here or cyclechat) where a guy was about to go back with his new bike, bought and assembled at Halfords. His handlebars had come loose, on the road, going downhill at 30mph. :!:

NorwegianBlue

Gambatte wrote:

bornagainbiker wrote:

With respect "halfords carrera" doesn't really tell us alot. They have quite a few models under the carrera brand.
I specifically mentioned the Subway because I've actually owned one and seeing as its based on an MTB with 26" wheels its more than robust enough for its intended use of commuting.

Reddragons was a Virtuoso, I'm sure the mates was a Kraken - Similar price range to my Avalanche 2.0.

He's still got it, although Halfords upgraded a few parts and he's slowly upgrading the rest.

Might not have been due to problems with Carreras, it seems finding a reliable Halfords can be down to luck. We had a story a couple of weeks ago (it was on the commuting section here or cyclechat) where a guy was about to go back with his new bike, bought and assembled at Halfords. His handlebars had come loose, on the road, going downhill at 30mph. :!:

Yes Halford's have a rep for poor assembly, but to be fair they are no different from any of the other major chains. I'd always prefer to do the final assembly on a new bike myself, wherever it came from.

Carreras in general have a very good rep. However there were a lot of stories of the Subway 8's going through rear hubs like they were consumables. That's not a particular reflection on Carrera, there were a lot of similar stories about other Nexus equipped bikes.

TheBoyBilly

The cheapest commuter bike I can find worth a mention, brand new, is a Raleigh Oakland at £139 from Evans. It comes with a sprung saddle, rack and mudguards and a steel frame. It'll easily do the job until you need to upgrade.