Advice - road cycling accident

cyclingmev

I'm new to the forum, so hello all, and asking for advice already! On Wednesday, I was involved in a cycling accident, whereby I was undertaking (tut-tut) stationary / very slow moving traffic on a narrow main road, and a guy in this queue flashed at the car waiting to turn right into a junction to say she could go. She did without checking, drove across the road I was cycling on and I ended up colliding with the back end of her car, after trying to brake / avoid her. Result = bruised / cracked ribs, sprained wrist, badly damaged shoulder, bruised hip, grazes, gravel rash and a cut chin. Oh aye, and a broken road bike. She was all apologetic, an ambulance was called, so were the police, there was a witness and a statement taken. HOWEVER.....there seems to be quite a grey area regarding cyclists undertaking, and this contributing to the cause of the accident. The roads where I live are not made for overtaking traffic, too narrow and too fast. I've now handed it over to solicitors, as she's making a claim for apparent damage to her car (even though there was none - she said, the witness and police also examined the car whilst I was in the ambulance. Oh, and another thing, she even questioned why an ambulance was called. God help us. Anyhow, sorry for the rant, I'd appreciate your advice, thanks.... Happy bikeling. x

Eat My Dust

Technicall y I would imagine that the driver was at fault. However it's probably something that you won't do again in a hurry, when I first started cycling I had the very same accident, I too learnt the hard way. Glad to hear that you're not too badly beaten up!!

eternal_headwind

All the stuff that happened after the incident sounds as if the solicitors are now in the driving seat.
Do likewise. I notice cycling lawyers advertise in the back of cycling weekly and other cycling publications.

eternal_headwind

All the stuff that happened after the incident sounds as if the solicitors are now in the driving seat.
Do likewise. I notice cycling lawyers advertise in the back of cycling weekly and other cycling publications.

robmanic1

Wait until there is a safe gap between you and any oncoming vehicle. Watch out for cyclists, motorcyclists, pedestrians and other road users. Check your mirrors and blind spot again to make sure you are not being overtaken, then make the turn. Do not cut the corner. Take great care when turning into a main road; you will need to watch for traffic in both directions and wait for a safe gap.

Never assume that flashing headlights is a signal inviting you to proceed. Use your own judgement and proceed carefully.


Downloaded from the highway code, I think your case is pretty clear-cut, the onus would appear to be on the driver that crossed your path, I would suggest that the fact you were undertaking is irrelevant. (But, hey, I'm no expert)

FAT_ROB

The rules with regards to overtaking apply exactly the same to cyclists as they do to motorists 'techinically' making undertaking an offence (but hey its never going to be enforced ever - like reflector requirements)

I think you will find that the womans insurance company will look to split the blame apportioning a partial amount of blame to you and accepting that the woman was also partialy to blame for failing to accord precedence.

The chap who flashed is headlights is unfortunatly not included in this as a headlight flash has no precedence in law.


I think and I will be honest this is not my area of expertise you will be looking at a 70 - 30 split or there about in your favour.

The above would probably only be relevant if the case was brought to court. I can't belive for one minuite there is not a stated case of exactly this situation either involving a cycle or motorcycle. The outcome of this earlier case will probably be used by her insurance company (to whichy your claim regardless of size will undoubtebly be peanuts) in order to make a settlement.

I would be curious to know what your solicitor expects to get out of this (apart from his/her bumped up fees no doubt.

spen666

FAT_ROB wrote:

The rules with regards to overtaking apply exactly the same to cyclists as they do to motorists 'techinically' making undertaking an offence (but hey its never going to be enforced ever - like reflector requirements)
...

This is simply incorrect

There is no offence of undertaking. It is perfectly legal to pass a vehicle on its near side whether you are driving a motor vehicle or riding a bike

proto

Have a good read of this long thread on a motorbike forum. Not the same, but similar circumstances. Very careful reading of teh Highway Code, and copious references made to it in a reply to an insurance company found success. I suggest you do the same

http://www.therevcounter.com/motorbike- ... claim.html

eg:

Motorcyclists and cyclists

211

It is often difficult to see motorcyclists and cyclists, especially when they are coming up from behind, coming out of junctions, at roundabouts, overtaking you or filtering through traffic. Always look out for them before you emerge from a junction; they could be approaching faster than you think. When turning right across a line of slow-moving or stationary traffic, look out for cyclists or motorcyclists on the inside of the traffic you are crossing. Be especially careful when turning, and when changing direction or lane. Be sure to check mirrors and blind spots carefully.

paulwood

Sadly my thoughts are in line with most of the other replies. Highway Code says don't overtake on the inside so by doing that it makes it hard to fully blame someone else when it goes wrong.

Not saying thay are not to blame as well. I would guess that the Police would - probably - not prosecute either party in this sort of case

MattBlackBigBoysBMX

cyclingmev wrote:

I'd appreciate your advice, thanks.... Happy bikeling. x

Don't hide yourself behind cars whilst passing, do it in front like it says to in the HC.

Reduce your speed when in similar situations. If you could see the car waiting to turn right across your path you should have been anticipating its actions and been able to stop.

Assume every other road user is an incompetent idiot, most of them are.

cyclingmev

Thanks all - some interesting comments. For information, I've been riding bikes on the roads for years (about 25), with several close scrapes with incompetent car drivers, who just don't consider cyclists when they're driving their cars - them overtaking on corners, passing too close, throwing water on you, abuse from passengers...all the usual crap that I'm sure you're all familiar with. Even witness to this at the recent Fred Whitton cycling event, stupid car drivers overtaking the cyclists taking part in the FW challenge on corners...most cyclists do drive, however, some drivers probably haven't cycled in their lives so don't understand how vulnerable cyclists are. There was no way I could have been anticipating the actions of the car driver, I do try sometimes, but they're an unpredictable pack of whassacks at the best of times - though do understand what you're saying about not hiding behind cars. However, to overtake the queue of stationary traffic on that particular stretch of road (A595, Egremont Road) would be suicidal - you'd be facing oncoming traffic, with no room to filter back into the queue of nose-to-tail traffic, and it's uphill with a blind crest at the top...SO - will the law ever change to take into account that overtaking for a cyclist is not always the best option...common sense should prevail. That's my rant, comments appreciated...

paulwood

Highway Code:

167
DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example

approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road


applies to cycles "undertaking" as well

OK, we all do it but makes it harder to win any claim

beverick

My cousin had what seems to be an almost identical crash two years ago (virtually to the day ironically). He 'T-boned' a motorist who was turning across traffic into a petrol station. He was cylcing along a cycle lane and emerged from the near side of a stationary van in what had been queuing traffic only to find that the van had actually stopped to let the car cross into the petrol station.

After some (lengthy) discussions between his solicitor and the driver's insurance company they agreed to accept liabtility but without accepting blame. This has allowed my cousin to recover various costs associated with the crash which have been substantial and are still ongoing. The costs include tens of thousands of pounds of private health care, employment costs (ironically from the NHS and inlcude reclaiming professional and examination fees - he was in the last year of a PhD), transportation and legal costs.

The insurers did say that if the crash had been between two motorists then it would probably be taken as 'knock-for-knock' (ie joint liability).

Because the insurance company won't accept blame he has to persue damages through legal means. I do not know where he is in this process.

He suffered leg, chest and neck injuries. He can now walk unaided but is unlikely to be able to ride a bike again.

Bob

Slim Middleton

You've done exactly the right thing by passing this to your solicitors. They should check your existing policies of insurance (if you have any) to see whether you have coverage for third party liability (in the event that the woman's claim is sucessful) and/or legal expenses insurance to cover the costs of pursuing the claim. If not, they may agree to handle the case on a no-win, no-fee basis depending on their assessment of the merits of your case. On the facts as written, I'd wager you have a pretty strong case. The solicitors will assess the quantum of your claim based on medical reports and calculation of any out of pocket expenses you might have incurred including the damage to your bike. Assessment of the injury may take a while (esp if the shoulder injury continues to be troublesome) and if liability can be resolved in your favour early on you may be able to get an interim payment to cover the cost of a comparable (not necessarily replacement) bike. Assessment of damages for the injury can be safely made once any medical expert is satisfied that the final prognosis is known. All the best.

Simon

NWLondoner

I'm confused.

So if I constantly ride in the primary position and hold traffic up i can get into trouble with the police.

If i ride and let traffic pass I will undertake them at some point, as with London traffic at a standstill most of the time i can still get into trouble.

The cycle lanes are full of litter/glass/massive potholes!!

So it looks like we have to overtake all the time and dart in and out of the traffic flow to avoid having a head on collision and still run the risk of being run over by a car coming out of a turning!!!!

So where the hell are we supposed to cycle!!!!!

chuckcork

Where are we supposed to cycle? Good question.

Answer: In an environment where all are legally created equal.

Problem is of course that a HGV weighing 20 tonnes and travelling at a standard 40mph in a 30mph zone while the driver is using mobile phone/checking maps/catching up on paperwork, is somewhat more equal than a bicycle and rider weighing, um, 0.4% that and travelling at maybe 20mph, on a potholed/sunken grate edge of road around vehicles parked in the occasionally present cycle lane, and dealing with wind, rain slick, glass etc, drivers who don't indicate, passengers that open doors without warning, pedestrians who won't look before they step out etc etc.

Take heart though. For all that "Cycling Dave" and London's current moptop mayor may be only doing it for publicity, at least with some at the top with some idea of what its like on two wheels there is a chance of maybe some change at some time in the future.

STEFANOS4784

Thought i should reply as i had exactly same thing happen, however the midget driving crashed into the side of me and snapped my collar bone and had shouted at him as i saw him boot it but to no avail, i ended up with a broken collar bone, in the back of the ambulance i asked the paramedic to get his details, he did but the details were fake, in the end i contacted aone of those injury lawyer people and looks like i'll get about 1400 quid, enough for a lovely new bike , still got a massive bone sticking out my shoulder 4 years on though as the docs said they couldn't opperate, anyway hope this helps and best o luck :!:

Cunobelin

This is probably too late for you now, but some of the advice may help - If not I hope it can help others.

The first thing to remember is that you are never going to act in a sensible, ordered manner. You have adrenaline in your veins and are looking to either have a fight or run away. Injuries will be masked, and the logic is out of the window!


For this reason I always carry a small card with instructions, and a small notebook or recorder.

The main points are taken from the excellent LCC advice available Here

I may never need it, but if I do....................

alfablue

STEFANOS4784 wrote:

Thought i should reply as i had exactly same thing happen, however the midget driving crashed into the side of me and snapped my collar bone and had shouted at him as i saw him boot it but to no avail, i ended up with a broken collar bone, in the back of the ambulance i asked the paramedic to get his details, he did but the details were fake, in the end i contacted aone of those injury lawyer people and looks like i'll get about 1400 quid, enough for a lovely new bike , still got a massive bone sticking out my shoulder 4 years on though as the docs said they couldn't opperate, anyway hope this helps and best o luck :!:

I was hit (in my car) by a travellers bus, they extracted me from my car then scarpered (therefore untraceable, but possibly uninsured also). My solicitor made a claim through the Motor Insurers Bureau (they are funded by the insurance industry and compensate victims of untraced / uninsured drivers). I got £4000 for a whiplash injury - which would seem far less severe than yours, is your solicitor pushing for enough? (This was back in 1994 too, so I imagine that sum would be a lot more these days).

alfablue

Just to add, for the benefit of other forummers, the Motor Insurance Bureau can also offer free legal expenses cover for up to £100 000 for claims regarding uninsured drivers, and they can make provisional payments to help with treatment costs.

cyclingmev

Thanks again for your advice and comments. The claim process continues, the police haven't prosecuted the other driver who continues to deny all possibility that she may have contributed / caused the accident. Out of interest, will let you know the outcome - may be in some months, though! Cheers again! mev x

STEFANOS4784

alfablue wrote:

STEFANOS4784 wrote:

Thought i should reply as i had exactly same thing happen, however the midget driving crashed into the side of me and snapped my collar bone and had shouted at him as i saw him boot it but to no avail, i ended up with a broken collar bone, in the back of the ambulance i asked the paramedic to get his details, he did but the details were fake, in the end i contacted aone of those injury lawyer people and looks like i'll get about 1400 quid, enough for a lovely new bike , still got a massive bone sticking out my shoulder 4 years on though as the docs said they couldn't opperate, anyway hope this helps and best o luck :!:

I was hit (in my car) by a travellers bus, they extracted me from my car then scarpered (therefore untraceable, but possibly uninsured also). My solicitor made a claim through the Motor Insurers Bureau (they are funded by the insurance industry and compensate victims of untraced / uninsured drivers). I got £4000 for a whiplash injury - which would seem far less severe than yours, is your solicitor pushing for enough? (This was back in 1994 too, so I imagine that sum would be a lot more these days).

I ended up taking a 70-30 blame percentage under advice of the solicitors, no-one use BD law Bristol, my bro recommended but they just seem like they can't be bothered, should get my final settlement of 1800 quid any day now. Was the 4 grand you got after all the solicitors fees and every-thing?

alfablue

Yes, I got £4000, my solicitor cost me nothing, he was appointed by the legal insurance that came attached to my motor policy. I didn't even approach them, they called me and offered. It was a totally painless thing, 2 or three letters exchanged, an appointment to see an orthopaedic consultant at a private hospital (which they paid for), one phone call from the solicitor saying the MIB had offered £3000 which he advised me to refuse, a week later a call saying they offered £4000 which he advised me to accept, job done! He did say I should pay my employers for the day off sick I took from the award I got, my employers weren't interested.

dilemna

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dilemna

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dilemna

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dilemna

Hi,

Just before the speeding car drove into me whilst I was on my training bike coming home from work back in 1999, I knew I was going to be hit and screamed "Don't break my legs!" I can't remember being worried about my head. I felt weightless as I flew through the air and like a sac of spuds I hit the road in front of him in the middle of the busy roundabout. I lay their for what seemed like an age but was probably a minute or so. I was breathing. My first thought was to see if I could move my legs, then arms, then head then assess damage to my bike...............I was trying to orientate my myself to find my camera.

The police and ambulance arrived pretty quickly. The first thing they had to contend with was the driver of the speeding car in their faces telling them it was my fault, I sonehow drove into him. I didn't as he was behind me. The police took a diifferent view as did the judge and foud him guilty. The first thing both the police and ambulance crew asked me was "How are you feeling, have you hit your head?" The ambulance crew immediately did a head examination, asking me to do and say certain things. I was basically ok. I was very cold, shivering. They put a blanket over me. I hadn't hit my head although I didn't realise at the time my helmet must have taken much of the blow as my head swung toward the tarmac. My neck hurt a bit but I was ok. As for the rest of me my left side knee cap was cut open lots of blood and my the fingers of my left hand a bit shredded (I do wear fingerless gloves), my left elbow was badly cut up and the whole of my left side beneath my clothing was absolutely killing me. I daren't look. I couldn't, I was in too much pain to bend.

My bike was a mess too. The rear wheel and stays had been totally bent, my front left handle bar bent and my beautiful Campag Chorus STI lever mashed. I was in hospital for 3 days. The first night I can't remember much save for a nurse injecting a large screw driver sized syringe of heavy duty painkiller into my left hip area to try to ease my pain. I couldn't move. Apparently during the first night the nurse told me later I was tossing and turning and shouted on several occasions "Don't break my legs!" My whole left side from the level of my kidneys down to lower thigh was one big haematoma, a mother of all bruises. I had also suffered a fracture to the edge of my left hip and damaged a nerve that passes adjacent to it. So I now 10 years on I still get sensations down my left leg and into my foot. I problems with my back. I pain in my hip when it is cold and damp which is pretty much all the time in the UK.

Suffice to say the police were brilliant. Witnesses came forward and turned up to court. The RAC guy said of me "He was lit up like a f*****g Christmas tree." The driver and his defence contended I was a novice cyclist who had lost control of my bike and shouldn't have been on the road??!!! When asked how I held the handlebars prior to the defendant colliding with me I answered as tightly as Miguel Indurain in a final sprint finish along the Champs Elysee. The court didn't even know who Miguel was but felt sure that cycling must take place on the Champs Elysee being in France where cyclists are common. Suffice to say after a period of long legal hot air about what penalty the errant driver should face, he was convicted of driving without care and attention and fined a woefull amount £150 I think with 3 points on his licence. As disappointing as this amount was it did however help no end my civil claim against him. I instructed solicitors to bring a civil action and successfully sued for my injuries and damage to bike, lost earnings, etc. I got just over £20k in total for my injuries, repairs to bike and loss of earnings but it took 4 and a half years to get there. I did get interim payouts along the way as liability was never in dispute which helped. The solicitor's bill was just under £18k. They originally quoted £3,500 to £4,000 in fees. It wasn't a risky case as the driver had been convicted of careless driving and the other side admitted liability. Anyway the criminal conviction is prime facie evidence of negligence in a civil action. Make of that what you want the solcitor's costs, but at the time I could not fight anymore. I was happy with what I got. But I still suffer from time to time when cold and wet. The solicitor no longer does cycling personal injury. I wonder why as a nice little earner as far I can see.

My point is that when you have a moderately serious accident on a bicycle you need all the protection you can get. You are vulnerable. You also need good anticipation, awareness of others around you and to ride defensively. However things do go wrong. Flesh and bones have surprisingly little resistance to impacts with hard things such as metal, tarmac and rocks or trees and even less resistance to sharp pointy things as well. The first thing any half decent rescuer, paramedic, amabulance crew or police officer will ask, "Are you ok, have you hit your head?" They ask this as they no the brain is the most important organ in the body believe it or not. It is my feeling that you can do alot yourself to try to protect your head, first by using it and wearing a helmet. In hindsight after the accident that killed you unqualified theorists might say well the impact would have killed him anyway so it wasn't worth wearing it which is utter nonsense. I would advise anyone who takes their own safety seroiusly to wear a helmet. It strikes me that it is always those who have never had a moderately serious or left threatening injury are the ones who question a safety measure's efficacy, produce meaningless statistics, advocate abstaining from a safety measure or actively resist it's introduction. Car seat belts are a case in point. I remember very clearly the same type of case made against introducing them 30 years ago and yet they have proved a total success at reducing road traffic fatalites and seroius injuries. There have been lots of other safety measures introduced into car design such impact absorption, but the compulsory wearing of seatbelts has been a major success in reducing road traffic deaths and injuires. Period.

I believe my helmet prevented me from being seriously injured in this particular collision. Had I not been wearing one then I might not be here writing this thread or I might have suffered injury to my brain such that my cerebral function would be grossly impaired. You know a helmet might not save you from being flattened by a 40 tonne artic or bus, or even falling off a cliff, but the counter arguement is that in not wearing any of this protective equipment one is a long time dead. So to taking responsibility for your own safety by using practicable and reasonable measures to safeguard your safety you might survive a little longer on the event of impact. This seems desirable to me.

What is more troubling is the number of cyclists some with families, dependants, who have no insurance in place so should they become injured or be killed as a result of a collision which is their fault then they have no means of financial support or for their families. They are then reliant on claiming from the other party providing the other party is insured and is found to be at fault and the claimant is not contributory negligent. And by contributory negligent courts now seem to be taking a reasonable and practical view albeit aftrer pressure from defendants' insurers. Ok their reasoning is to try to limit the damages they have to pay out to claimants, but if you are wearing a helmet anyway this does not become an issue. Anyway each case will turn on it's own facts.

Cycling is a matter of self preservation and particularly commuting on the roads it's survival. Unfortunately traffic volumes and speeds are now excessive and there is little desire in the UK to change this. So I think what can I do to protect myself? £50 for a decent helmet which might help me might not is not too much. When you compare it to the vale of some bikes £3,000 it's peanuts. I still wear a helmet and have recently started wearing a high viz sleeveless tunic with loads of Scotchlite bars over my already highly visible yellow Altura jacket. I DO NOT then wear a rucksack on my back, pointless wearing the reflective jacket in the first place, I have decent panniers. I cycle between 8 and 10,000 miles a year. I don't compromise on safety. I eyeball anything I hear approaching from behind until it is safely passed. It works. You're a long time dead and I still have a lot of things I want to do. So if you aren't wearing a helmet or hi viz clothing yet you ought to be. It might just save your life. Your family might just be pleased you did as well.

medical0s

just wanted to say hi as a new member

John C.

Again not an expert but the car drove accross in front of you without looking properly, there fore their fault.

cyclingmev

Finally resolved after a year...it went 50/50 in the end. Could've gone to court and battled for more, but if i'd lost, i would have been responsible for all the legal fees, and couldn't afford the risk. Still, i've enough cash to cover a replacement bike (which i got at the start of the year, anyway ) and some extra cash for treats and general merriment. Just glad it's finally sorted and enjoying cycling again.Thanks all for your comments, safe bikeling and keep a look-out for those volvos though...especially if it's a woman behind the wheel...... mev (heather) x

beverick

beverick wrote:

My cousin had what seems to be an almost identical crash two years ago (virtually to the day ironically). He 'T-boned' a motorist who was turning across traffic into a petrol station. He was cylcing along a cycle lane and emerged from the near side of a stationary van in what had been queuing traffic only to find that the van had actually stopped to let the car cross into the petrol station.

After some (lengthy) discussions between his solicitor and the driver's insurance company they agreed to accept liabtility but without accepting blame. This has allowed my cousin to recover various costs associated with the crash which have been substantial and are still ongoing. The costs include tens of thousands of pounds of private health care, employment costs (ironically from the NHS and inlcude reclaiming professional and examination fees - he was in the last year of a PhD), transportation and legal costs.

The insurers did say that if the crash had been between two motorists then it would probably be taken as 'knock-for-knock' (ie joint liability).

Because the insurance company won't accept blame he has to persue damages through legal means. I do not know where he is in this process.

He suffered leg, chest and neck injuries. He can now walk unaided but is unlikely to be able to ride a bike again.

Bob

You mean like this (above) from my posting of 30 May last year?

Bob