Gearing - is it all in ones head?

redddraggon

Having done the same hilly 100k route on successive weekends, on different bikes, heavier winter bike with 53-39/12-25 and lighter carbon bike with 50-34/11-25.

Exactly the same preparation before the ride, but I was quickly knackered on the carbon bike needing to stop before the end of the 8 mile hill, but the winter bike I shot up without even needing to stop. I felt the same before each ride, and felt I was putting the same intensity in and took about the same amount of time to reach the top.

Am I just more efficient at pushing 39-25 than I am spinning 34-25?

CrookedCucumber

I don't see why you _shouldn't_ be more efficient with taller gearing, despite the fashion for super-high cadences these days. Muscles are complicated things, after all.

But maybe you just felt a psychological drive to go a bit faster on your posh bike? I know that happens to me. I'm _always_ more knackered after riding my nice bike than my old hack.

drenkrom

Quite possible. Different people have different optimal loads, as our muscle composition varies so much from one person to the other. That may be it. Or it may be that elusive thing that makes some days really good and some days really bad. I have some days where I just fly and some where the legs won't turn, even though I feel no difference before the the gauntlet is dropped.

Maybe the hill is just not steep enough to warrant the 34-25, as well. That's quite a small gear.

PeteCamb

I have noticed over the years that some riders use low gearing while others use a high ratio. I have ridden with both and except for hills, I use fairly high ratios.

I wonder if it comes down to what you basic build is? When at school, could you sprint the 100yds (mtrs) or were you better at the 1 mile (1.6Km). I was hopeless at the sprint but won the 1 mile event for our Battalion (which just won them the regimental cup). Liken it to a hare or a rabbit, the rabbit is faster for a short distnce but the hare will easily outrun it over long distance.

My lowest gear is 28-34 (23 inch approx.) my highest 48-14 (which I would use with a roaring tail wind). I can still ride 40+ miles a day at 79 years old.

redddraggon

PeteCamb wrote:

I wonder if it comes down to what you basic build is? When at school, could you sprint the 100yds (mtrs) or were you better at the 1 mile (1.6Km).

I'm rubbish at running full stop, I'm more of a rugby player.

Admittedly I think I'm naturally a grinder most of the time, but 100rpm on the flat seems about right. My cadence varies widely, something I hadn't noticed until I got a computer with cadence.

I guess I'll just have to try it again tomorrow on my good bike, see if I was just having a bad day the first time.

gkerr4

it's definately not just "in ones head"!!

I can think back to my last alps trip last year and the constant thoughts of
"is there another gear to go",
"am I sure there isn't a lower gear" and
"there must be a lower gear than this..."

i'd dread to think of the carnage at 39/25


you're going to end up selling that nero corsa and keeping your new winer bike - i can see it coming!

redddraggon

gkerr4 wrote:

you're going to end up selling that nero corsa and keeping your new winer bike - i can see it coming!

Nah, I'm going to need two decent bikes when I go back to university in September, one at home and one in Manchester for uni rides.

I'm tempted to swap the 50/34 for another 53/39 though.

hodsgod

Of course it's not in the head, it's in the legs!

Different people are suited to different gearing, and too high or too low is as bad as each other. If your cadence is too high (for your own natural efficiency) then you are wasting your energy. Gearing too high and you can't maintain your performance.

I try to balance my heart rate and my cadence, 150 bpm @ 90 RPM. I find I can maintain this without tiring too much.

wastelander

Definitely not in yer head! While on a training camp a few more experienced guys noticed that on long (10km+) climbs I was spinning too low a gear to quickly to be sustainable, consequently having a 'mini crisis' mid climb as my body struggled. I took note of their comments, pushed a slightly higher gear at lower revs and the whole climbing experience became an enjoyable one and was no longer a trial of fire.

I'm sure that I've read posts which explain that being able to spin at higher revs for long periods does take a lot of training so it's possible that the higher geared bike is better suited to your current levels of fitness.

markos1963

I am the same, I have a hack bike with 53/39 and 14/24 gearing and a carbon racer with 50/34 and 12/25. I find on the same hill I can get up it equally on both bikes but in bottom gear on both. I had tried to get up on the compact in a higher gear but the temptation to use bottom was too great. I am not an expert but I think that the torque range of a cyclist must be quite large to enable us to cope with low and high gearing like this. I always thought that I was only a high cadence rider but recently I have been trying to ride in higher gears and I am finding I can cope pretty well.

dennisn

I think this is a clear case of not telling the hack bike that it's not supposed to go up
hills faster than a carbon one. It's against all the hype, can't happen. Also remember that
carbon bike builders are a powerful and dark force in cycling. Spreading rumors that
things like this can happen could result in them sending someone out to "silence" you.

Dennis Noward

markos1963

dennisn wrote:

I think this is a clear case of not telling the hack bike that it's not supposed to go up
hills faster than a carbon one. It's against all the hype, can't happen. Also remember that
carbon bike builders are a powerful and dark force in cycling. Spreading rumors that
things like this can happen could result in them sending someone out to "silence" you.

Dennis Noward

I think my wife would take out the contract on me if she knew that I am as quick on my hack as my racer, after all the pleading I made to get the money for a new bike

dennisn

markos1963 wrote:

dennisn wrote:

I think this is a clear case of not telling the hack bike that it's not supposed to go up
hills faster than a carbon one. It's against all the hype, can't happen. Also remember that
carbon bike builders are a powerful and dark force in cycling. Spreading rumors that
things like this can happen could result in them sending someone out to "silence" you.

Dennis Noward

I think my wife would take out the contract on me if she knew that I am as quick on my hack as my racer, after all the pleading I made to get the money for a new bike

Ah yes, the pleading and the begging and the promises of, "this is the last one for sure".
"I'll never need anything else".

Dennis Noward

Sea_Green_Incorruptible

markos1963 wrote:

dennisn wrote:

I think this is a clear case of not telling the hack bike that it's not supposed to go up
hills faster than a carbon one. It's against all the hype, can't happen. Also remember that
carbon bike builders are a powerful and dark force in cycling. Spreading rumors that
things like this can happen could result in them sending someone out to "silence" you.

Dennis Noward

I think my wife would take out the contract on me if she knew that I am as quick on my hack as my racer, after all the pleading I made to get the money for a new bike

Yes. This information must NEVER be allowed to get out to 'wives'.

redddraggon

Yes, it's definitely in my head.

Gkerr4 wrote:

"is there another gear to go",
"am I sure there isn't a lower gear" and
"there must be a lower gear than this..."

This is the problem for me, if I've got a lower gear I can't stop myself using it and I end up trying to spin too fast up a climb.

neeb

This is the problem for me, if I've got a lower gear I can't stop myself using it and I end up trying to spin too fast up a climb.

I have exactly the opposite problem - my cadence always slows down dramatically on climbs even although I know I have lower gears and they might be more efficient. It just doesn't feel right not to be really pushing it! And that's just when I'm in the saddle. I think I just get annoyed at hills for slowing me down.

Not Another Hill

I came from MTB and decided on a 50/34 because I felt the hills might be too much of a challenge on a 53/39.

My cadence is much faster on the road bike than it ever was on the MTB even when riding the MTB on the road. I found that the extra distances and duration on the road bike, over a hiilly terrain, pushing a higher gear, didn't do my knees a lot of good. As a result I spin lower gears up hills and get up them at the same speed (if not a little faster) than if grinding it on a higher gear. My knees don't suffer as much and my overall average speed has improved as has my endurance It did take some getting used to because I found I was getting out-of-breath more quickly when spinning than when pushing higher gears.

redddraggon

What is people idea of a high cadence though?

39-25 at 80 RPM is just a shade under 10mph, I rarely drop under this unless the climb is pretty steep (and I'll be out of the saddle by then anyway), with 34-25 I need to be at nearly 100rpm for this speed which just isn't sustainable (for me) on a long drag of a climb. I seem to be pretty efficient between 60 and 90, although I can handle spinning quite fast on the flat, but as soon as it's a hill I seem to prefer being on the lower end of the scale.