my fave rider busted

vermooten
vermooten Posts: 2,697
edited May 2008 in Pro race
Patxi Vila, he of the nodding dog head-bob, has been caught with illegal testosterone levels, according to CFA

Shame that, on many different levels.
You just have to ride like you never have to breathe again.

Manchester Wheelers

Comments

  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    vermooten wrote:
    Patxi Vila, he of the nodding dog head-bob, has been caught with illegal testosterone levels, according to CFA

    Shame that, on many different levels.

    Why is it a shame ? If it is true he is a cheat and deserves whats coming to him . Maybe you should feel sorry for the riders he cheated against (allegedly) rather than him.

    cheers
    MG
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • vermooten
    vermooten Posts: 2,697
    Obviously yes, but it's a shame that he cheated in the first place. I like him!
    You just have to ride like you never have to breathe again.

    Manchester Wheelers
  • calvjones
    calvjones Posts: 3,850
    Dunno why, but this surprises me not at all. I think maybe his name just sounds like a villan from a spaghetti western.
    ___________________

    Strava is not Zen.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Moray Gub wrote:

    Why is it a shame ? If it is true he is a cheat and deserves whats coming to him . Maybe you should feel sorry for the riders he cheated against (allegedly) rather than him.

    If someone doped and never won anything, would that be ok? Or if they finished in the last 10 all the time.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    iainf72 wrote:
    Moray Gub wrote:

    Why is it a shame ? If it is true he is a cheat and deserves whats coming to him . Maybe you should feel sorry for the riders he cheated against (allegedly) rather than him.

    If someone doped and never won anything, would that be ok? Or if they finished in the last 10 all the time.

    Eh ? who mentioned anything about winning ? Doesnt matter if they win or not, a dope cheat is a dope cheat irrespective or where they finish, they are gaining an advantage over non doped riders. Let me get this right though is this your position .

    .........its ok to dope providing you dont win ?.......


    cheers
    MG
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Moray Gub wrote:
    Eh ? who mentioned anything about winning ? Doesnt matter if they win or not, a dope cheat is a dope cheat irrespective or where they finish, they are gaining an advantage over non doped riders. Let me get this right though is this your position .

    .........its ok to dope providing you dont win ?.......

    You said "feel sorry for the riders he cheated against" - Doesn't that imply he somehow wronged them? And to do that he'd have to beat them.

    My position is if it's against the rules and you'd found out, you should be punished. I prefer to avoid emotive talk of cheating and robbing other people.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    iainf72 wrote:
    Moray Gub wrote:
    Eh ? who mentioned anything about winning ? Doesnt matter if they win or not, a dope cheat is a dope cheat irrespective or where they finish, they are gaining an advantage over non doped riders. Let me get this right though is this your position .

    .........its ok to dope providing you dont win ?.......

    You said "feel sorry for the riders he cheated against" - Doesn't that imply he somehow wronged them? And to do that he'd have to beat them.

    My position is if it's against the rules and you'd found out, you should be punished. I prefer to avoid emotive talk of cheating and robbing other people.

    Whether you think its emotive talk or not it is cheating no other way to describe it Also you dont neccesarily have to beat a rider to cheat them through doping .......better recovery, stronger being a better domestique through being stronger, negotiate a better contract etc etc. Indeed i suspect for most riders winning isnt a factor in their doping aims

    cheers
    MG
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • drenkrom
    drenkrom Posts: 1,062
    I can't cease to be amazed that someone would be stupid enough to still dope with testosterone. I don't equate it totally to being a cheater, though it is cheating, and more to being a complete and utter dumba$$. A true cheater would be much wiser than that.

    But as we all know, there is quite some way to go between an A-sample elevated T:E ratio and a conviction. I'm opening bets on how long the procedures will take. Who's got some action?
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    drenkrom wrote:
    I can't cease to be amazed that someone would be stupid enough to still dope with testosterone. I don't equate it totally to being a cheater, though it is cheating, and more to being a complete and utter dumba$$. A true cheater would be much wiser than that.
    [/quote

    So despite testing positive for Testosterrone and losing his tour title Floyd Landis isnt a true cheater then ? I didnt realise there was a cheaters heirachy with regard to drug taking .


    cheers
    MG
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • calvjones
    calvjones Posts: 3,850
    Moray Gub wrote:
    drenkrom wrote:
    I can't cease to be amazed that someone would be stupid enough to still dope with testosterone. I don't equate it totally to being a cheater, though it is cheating, and more to being a complete and utter dumba$$. A true cheater would be much wiser than that.
    [/quote

    So despite testing positive for Testosterrone and losing his tour title Floyd Landis isnt a true cheater then ? I didnt realise there was a cheaters heirachy with regard to drug taking .


    cheers
    MG

    I think denkrom's point is that the clever, 'professional' dopers wouldn't go anywhere near testosterone, so the ones that are caught are the crap cheaters rather than the best cheaters..
    ___________________

    Strava is not Zen.
  • drenkrom
    drenkrom Posts: 1,062
    exactly.
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    cn.com story here:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id= ... may06news2

    But the last sentence? "Testosterone analyses are always problematic, because the parameters for its measurement are difficult to handle, as seen in the cases of Spain's Iban Mayo and USA's Floyd Landis." Eh? Iban Mayo? Testosterone? "Parameters for its measurement"?

    Anyway I would think it will be pretty straightforward. They will go to the carbon isotope test, and if it shows synthetic testosterone, he is busted - no question. If not, then no matter what the T/E ratio, the result is recorded as "inconclusive" and he's off the hook. I believe that's the WADA protocol but am prepared to be corrected.
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    calvjones wrote:
    Moray Gub wrote:
    drenkrom wrote:
    I can't cease to be amazed that someone would be stupid enough to still dope with testosterone. I don't equate it totally to being a cheater, though it is cheating, and more to being a complete and utter dumba$$. A true cheater would be much wiser than that.
    [/quote

    So despite testing positive for Testosterrone and losing his tour title Floyd Landis isnt a true cheater then ? I didnt realise there was a cheaters heirachy with regard to drug taking .


    cheers
    MG

    I think denkrom's point is that the clever, 'professional' dopers wouldn't go anywhere near testosterone, so the ones that are caught are the crap cheaters rather than the best cheaters..

    Firstly what he said was ''true cheaters'' which is markedly different from your new phrase of best cheaters. Riders take PEDs for all manner of reasons all of which ulimately are to cheat I dont buy this best/true/clever (delete as applicable)cheater crap . On a more serious note thats like saying someone found guilty of murder is not a true murderer because his method of committing murder wasnt clever .

    cheers
    MG
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    DaveyL wrote:
    But the last sentence? "Testosterone analyses are always problematic, because the parameters for its measurement are difficult to handle, as seen in the cases of Spain's Iban Mayo and USA's Floyd Landis." Eh? Iban Mayo? Testosterone? "Parameters for its measurement"?

    Mayo had elevated testosterone during the Giro last year. He was cleared because he naturally had wierd ratio's or something.

    Well, Floyds T:E analysis was botched and following the testing protocols does seem to be so challenging that some lab staff struggle.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    Ah, Iain, you've been listening to The Howard and Arnie Show for too long!
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • secretsqirrel
    secretsqirrel Posts: 2,123
    vermooten wrote:
    Patxi Vila, he of the nodding dog head-bob, has been caught with illegal testosterone levels, according to CFA

    Shame that, on many different levels.

    I feel for you Vermoo'. This has happened to me so many times (Sigh!).

    You take a liking for someone, stick pictures of him all over your desk, and then one morning a work mate who knows f'all about cycling says 'Didn't I see him on the news last night?' :cry:
  • andy_wrx
    andy_wrx Posts: 3,396
    Moray Gub wrote:
    I dont buy this best/true/clever (delete as applicable)cheater crap

    Well sort of agree wit hyou, but feel there's a category of 'worse' cheater - e.g. someone who goes to Balco and asks for steroids which are designed to be undetectable.
    Or does the condom-filled-with-someone-else's-urine process at a drugtest.

    Someone who dopes and gets caught - one sentence.
    Someone who not only dopes but makes efforts to avoid being caught is perhaps 'cheating twice' and so - double the sentence
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    Big doping programes cost money. Some teams are using the best advice and spending money on a lot of medicine, employing runners and others. Some lone riders turn to old contacts from their amateur days or know a helpful local doctor. Guess who gets caught...
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    Kléber wrote:
    Big doping programes cost money. Some teams are using the best advice and spending money on a lot of medicine, employing runners and others. Some lone riders turn to old contacts from their amateur days or know a helpful local doctor. Guess who gets caught...

    Both it would seem

    cheers
    MG
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !

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