Help for a friend.

muddylegs

I was wondering if you guys could help.
I have a friend who is over weight, has had several medical warnings about the state of his health including 2 lots of gout (if that’s how you spell it)
His girl friend would like to get married before too long and his 3-year-old son wants to play with him.
This is my problem; if hating physical activity were an Olympic sport he would be representing the UK.
So it’s going to be quite hard to get him started I would love to take him out on a ride but I really think I would kill him and any way he would not come.
So what can I do to get him burning calories that do not involve taking part in sport?
His passion is crisps and beer, both of which I don’t do.
I have thought about taking him out to do some photography whilst incorporating a long walk.
Some ideas would be great.

ride_whenever

You can't change people if they don't want to change, I'd suggest further away pubs, but beer is super high cal!

You could get him a TENS machine or, if he drives everywhere, break his car.

supersonic

Start with stuff in the home. And I'd reiterate the facts time and time again what this state of health will bring. My Dad started having heart attacks in his mid 30s, and a bypass at just 41. Sobering thought.

cee

but be gentle.....

it could be that being overweight, combined with not being very good at sports may have instilled in him the sense that there is no point......

That is potentially a difficult mindset to break.

Pippen33

you could just tell him to stop being a fat slob, get a life, have some self-respect, and help free up some NHS resources for those people with real non self-inflicted illesses, such as young children with cancers.

Anonymous

If the facts seem imminent, they can be quite scary.
Due to a lifetime of heavy drinking, smoking and, erm, other things, i was told two years ago that I had the blood pressure of a 60 year old (at 25 years old :shock: ) and they suspected i may have damaged my kidneys.

That's when I decided to get my bike out of the shed for the first time in about 4 years and I haven't looked back. I feel alive again.

CraigXXL

Pippen33 wrote:

you could just tell him to stop being a fat slob, get a life, have some self-respect, and help free up some NHS resources for those people with real non self-inflicted illesses, such as young children with cancers.

Does this include me then! Due to a botched operation followed by numerous others care of the NHS I spent years being inactive, I wanted to exercise but found it too painful. Now I am overweight and exercising to try and get rid of the fat but it's damn hard work. Prior to this I was very fit running daily at 5 min/miles, rugby at regiment and county level and of course cycling.

Comments from idiots like you do wonders for my self esteem and others in a similar position so try keeping them to yourself if you don't have anything intelligent to say.

Weight gain is very depressing and a vicious circle as you tend to comfort eat/drink. Start with gentle walking and let him have a go on your bike before trying to get him to buy his own. Any progress you see in him let them know about it be it less out of breath or weight loss. Don't try pushing too hard to begin with but try a bit of reverse psychology with do fancy going up that hill or to that next bend or just stay quite if you passed your previous distance. Just remember it will be slow going to begin with and what may seem effortless to you could be very difficult to him so he may require a few rests.

A good diet to loose weight is the Slimming World plan but the classes are mainly female which can daunting if he his lacking in confidence. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Amos

Craig i don't think this does include you. The OP has told us about a friend who is unfit due to there own lifestyle choices, not an underlying medical condition.

CraigXXL

It annoys me when people see someone who is overweight and judge them with no knowledge about their circumstances. I went to the Slimming World classes and the amount of angry and depressed members there is alarming. People get fat for a lot of different reasons but very few are slobs, the ones I've come across are usually very hard working and ended up getting fat because they lived of convenience food because they have little time for themselves. Others eat less than their partners do more physical work yet still gain weight where their other halves don't. I know that there are plenty of people who eat way too much and do too little but because someone is fat doesn't make them a slob.

Even worse now is this government is on a witch hunt against fat people blaming them for everything that is wrong with the NHS. Saying that unless they change their lifestyles then they will be declined treatment on the NHS because they are outside their BMI yet how many MP's fit their BMI. Ironically a good proportion of the medical staff who are performing these operations and after care are over worked and living on convenience food and hence not meeting their BMI. If you don't believe me then have a look around next time you are at the hospital or look at that politician talking toss.

By the way if you are in hospital because you have come off your bike and mangled your face then you best go home and hope that you heal naturally because that wouldn't be a "real non self-inflicted illness, such as young children with cancers".

I've had my rant now so goodnight

Ch3rryGh0st

Craig, I started Slimming World classes last year, and am still going. I'm not doubting your experience of angry and depressed people, but I have to say that my experience has been very different; one of support, humour, sympathy and, most important, encouragement.

Slimming World gave me the belief, confidence and support to lose 6 stones in 9 months, which has allowed me to get back on my bike, which will in turn accelerate my weight loss and fitness, and I expect to be close to my healthiest weight and shape by the end of the Summer, if not before. My wife also attends, and has lost almost 5 stones in approximately the same period, underlining the importance of support.

I'm not saying Slimming World, or any other group/regime, provides all the answers, and there was still a lot of hard work in there, and I think that's ultimately what it comes back to -- in life, mostly, we get back what we put in. Frankly, though, I enjoy the classes, and even when I feel that I don't need to go anymore, I'll still be there whenever I can be, to try and give back a little of what I was given.

I agree completely that overweight/obese people are an easy target, and many already have very low self-esteem, and support and encouragement is needed, not ridicule, not scape-goating; as you point out, there are many people that show up at hospital with injuries sustained as part of their lifestyle choices, whether that be cycling, eating burgers or fighting outside pubs.

If we wanted to start a counter-argument, should we suggest that people who aren't working, including children, should be turned away by hosptials in preference of people, perhaps even (horror of horrors!) obese people, who are working, and therefore contributing to the NHS financially? I hope nobody would think that was acceptable practice, either.

Anyway, back to the original point of the thread. In my own experience, I don't wish to sound negative, because I am very, very positive about weight loss and what can be achieved, but I would recommend a weight management class, because this is something that is about lifestyle, about fundamentally changing the mindset, and going out for a walk or a cycle but failing to eat properly is only tackling the problem half-way. It's not about dieting, it's about diet.

Probably not what people want to hear, because it wasn't what I wanted to hear a year ago, either, but those are our choices in life.

Sorry for the ramble, I hope it doesn't sound too self-righteous

SBezza

To be honest, if the guys passions are beer and crisps, then you will have a hard time changing him, losing weight and keeping it off is about lifestyle changes, not quick fixes. There is not alot of point going out for a bike ride, burning off a couple of hundred calories, if you then tuck into crisps and beer, you will still pile on weight.

If what the doctor has told him, is not making him change not alot will I doubt. I was obese, and decided to start losing weight for my 3 year old son in the main, as I didn't want him to go the same way as me (although I was a skinny kid). I have only done this by comopletely changing my eating habits, cutting out the beer every night, and doing more exercise, it is the only way to lose weight.

If he doesn't like exercise, try and get him to go out with walks with the family, it is a good way to start, and it can be very enjoyable.

Thewaylander

Indeed, It is a choice for your friend to make,

but ther eis no reason he couldnt have what he enjoys, its a question of balance. 1 packet of crisps a day can be fine a beer of an evening no worries, if in moderation as with everything.

The hard part is encouraging him to actually start to excersize as it will be tough going with 0 fitness, walking is great, stairs a good work out. but the best one i can think of swimming. gentle and the water will support his weight more. so try to drag him to a pool once times a week. (mention cute ladies in swim suits if needed)

CraigXXL

Ch3rrygh0st, I agree with you on the Slimming World and their consultants who have been through the similar struggle to loose weight and do genuinly support their members and they are a first rate organisation and did considered becoming a consultant myself (didn't pay enough). I did witness a lot of members who felt anger and depression due to fact that they ate less than their partners, exercised more but still put weight on. Research has now shown that there is actually a fat gene that will make people gain weight whilst maintaining a normal healthy lifestyle so these people have compensate for it by eating less and exercising even more to avoid putting on weight which can very hard work when they want to eat and drink like every one else.

Moderation is the key, a treat every now and again is great so long as it's not everyday, cooking your own meals from scratch so you know what is going into it and having a drink or two with the lads again so long as it not every night and to excess.

Going back to the original question go to a slimming class and let the whole family eat the same meals, walk to the class, walk to the shops and progress onto more strenous activities when the fitness/confidence improves. Good Luck!

Ch3rryGh0st

cooking your own meals from scratch so you know what is going into it

go to a slimming class and let the whole family eat the same meals, walk to the class, walk to the shops and progress onto more strenous activities when the fitness/confidence improves

Spot on, Craig, this is simple, practical advice for anyone needing to shift some weight, and who needs to start slowly.

I know exactly what you mean about people feeling angry at the injustice of working hard and having a 'bad' week, but that's where a good consultant comes into their own; I've had a couple of those weeks, too, but my consultant is always positive, supportive, looks for the cause of the problem, helps me solve the problem and over time my confidence has reached a point where not achieving my goal is something I find ludicrous to even consider.

It sounds like you had a good consultant, too, and as you say, Slimming World are first-rate, in my experience.

SBezza

There isn't really a thing as a fat gene, there are those people that convert excess calories to fat quicker, but to put on weight you need to eat more than you burn, and to lose it you need to eat less then you burn, that is the simple physic of it all. If you eat less than a family member, and exercise more, and still put on weight, then I would suspect a medical condition. Most people underestimate their actual calorie intake however, and although they think they eat less, probably snack on high calorie/low nutrition foods.

Slimming World and the like are helpful, especially if you find changing your lifestyle very difficult. I have not gone to a slimming club type thing, as I know I just have to eat less, and better food, and exercise more, nothing else will do, apart from a gastric bypass.

Eating regular small meals is a better way of losing weight, this keeps the motabolism high, and your body will burn more calories, just need to make sure these snacks are healthy options.

Ch3rryGh0st

As crazy as it may sound to some, SBezza, there are people who need that push to change their lifestyle; you're right, it's actually not that complicated for most people when you get to the core of it, and "eat less, move more" is often all that's needed, but sadly it's not always that simple.

I speak from my own experience, where I knew what I had to do, but somehow I couldn't get myself started. I always made excuses that I'd start it next week, when I had more time, when I didn't have to work away, or after someone's birthday. Another excuse I used was that I couldn't lose weight by controlling my food intake, only exercise would help, and I was too unhealthy to exercise. Classic denial stuff, and utter nonsense, but I believed it.

I think what a weight loss class can provide, whatever one people choose, is give that push. In my case, it gave me the tools (healthy recipes, for example) to get going, the confidence to keep going and it exposed my excuses for what they really were.

Your mention of high calorie/low nutrition food is a good call, as this was always my problem. I didn't stuff my face all the time, but a snack would be a packet of raw jelly and a handful of hobnobs, whereas now it's good quality fruit, which is frankly much nicer, and I can't believe I didn't notice it sooner

Fruit's not bloody cheap, though, I know that much...

SBezza

Thats the big problem with eating healthy, it isn't the cheapest option. That combined with everything else is why I think alot of people try and fail.

I was no angel for 10 years of my life I was obese, and only now am just overweight, so I used all the excuses as well. Some people like the weekly meetings as well, so they are a great tool in weight loss help.

Ch3rryGh0st

Yeah, it's no fun having to admit you've been naughty in front of everyone

Healthy food is so expensive, as you say. I've even considered getting an allotment this year, and growing my own veg.

That just seems like an admission that middle-age is upon me, though

Swannie

God, I wish I could find the study I'm thinking of...

I'm sure it will pop up soon...

Anyway... an American Insurers Association funded a study into a Doc's research. This was a holistic approach to heart problems, including counselling, diet, exercise, group sessions, etc. vs. surgery & normal measures.

This guy had great results. His BIG difference was this:
The standard heart docs, after surgery, were using scare tactics. If you don't change your diet, you have 6 months until you are either back in here for surgery, or dead. They would provide diet plans etc. The patients would go home, stick with it for 2 weeks, discover that thanks to their surgery they were feeling better, and forget about it... maybe lie to their docs about their diet. In 3-4 months time, they were back with pain again. Something like 1 in 10 people actually changed their lifestyle and diet.

This guy, his team of nurses, councillors, all promote the BENEFITS of a changed LIFESTYLE. Less pain, more energy, more time with loved ones, better quality of time with loved ones, less visits to the doctors, greater feeling of control. Counselling was considered important, and done individually and in groups. Times left to live weren't mentioned. More like 8 in 10 people stuck with this. When visited 2 years later, this was still at 60%, with the other % having settled for a compromise between the old and new.

Unsurprisingly this Docs work is being promoted amongst heart docs in the USA... it saves MILLIONS of $$$. (Oh, yeah, and lives too ).

Don't mention the health risks when talking to friends. They have heard it all before. Fear of death is NOT a healthy way to live life. "I eat this food and spend hours on this treadmill because the Doc's say I'll die if I don't".

Eat and exercise to live, "I eat this food and exercise for hours a week because it makes me feel good, pain free, and I can do it with my kids". I don't exercise for my health... I exercise because I enjoy it. Obviously it benefits my health.

Be honest with your mate. It's not easy. But it gets easier. He'll be able to kick a football with his kids... go for a walk to a nice country side pub (maybe)... whatever floats his boat. Even if that is a Wii with Wii Sports, to get him standing up and moving around with his kids.

Surf-Matt

There's always the "lazy" option championed by Terry Pratchett - being fit makes things easier to do so is therefore good for lazy people.

I honestly don't think healthy food is any more expensive if you are careful.
We get an organic veg box delivered weekly - it forms the basis of all our meals and we rarely buy much meat (mostly fish) - and are both healthy. The box is £10 a week.

supersonic

Healthy food is essential of course - but eating too much of other stuff is where many problems start! Balance and moderation to fit your lifestyle is the key.

As for the fat gene, I have seen research, and it does seem to point to a trait where certain people convert more calroies into stored fat than others. The remedy is the same though, just more intense in these people.

Regular blood pressure and cholesterol checks are something I would recommend (as well as blood sugar). My BP was through the roof at just 24 years old, and required hospital treatment. I was 6ft and 10stone, so it is not always overweight people that can have problems here! This also seems to be a family trait, though at the time I was diagnosed with an adrenal tumour.

I do eat better now than I did, and keep things in check.

ride_whenever

You need a good balance, currently I eat loads of organic/vegan foods from the deli. It has a bit much oil, but i cycle anywhere from 6 to 20miles a day depending on what I'm doing and I'm awake from 5am till 11/midnight. I've found that eating more smaller meals helps keep my metabolism going so I currently eat what I want and I'm still losing weight, which is good because I'm, well, a little softer than I'd like to be.

CraigXXL

I think that we all agree that it is balanced diet and exercise that is the key to loosing weight.

Mass obesity is a relative modern problem with the traditional meat and two veg meal replaced with a quick and easy pizza or some other out the freezer into the oven meal.

The exercise used to be work and walking to and from your work place now we are more office based and drive there.

All of this creates an unhealthy lifestyle to start with add to this over eating by as little as 50 calories a day (not even a whole Kit Kat finger or less than 2% of recommended daily intake) could increase your weight by 5 lbs in a year and that doesn't include the Christmas feast. It soon becomes obvious that even relatively healthy people exercising daily could find their trousers a little tighter. Then when it comes to loosing a pound of fat it's quite hard work to burn off the 3500 calories it contains.

WARNING! All you people that think you'll never put weight on, then watch out because that can of coke to quench your thirst when you already have consumed your calories for the day will cost you 133 calories on the belly or just short an extra 14 lbs in a year. Scary stuff now just ignore me and enjoy your Big Mac meal

supersonic

Yes, lifestyle and the office is a pain. Though trying to integrate things into your schedule will help for example a brisk 20 minute walk at lunchtime and that is that kit kat gone for example. Try joining a gym after work, or go swimming. Hell, even cycling lol.

All of my jobs have been on my feet, quite physical so I was burning a lot off anyway. Plus I cycled to work and back.

Ch3rryGh0st

I used to use the office as an excuse for not doing anything in the evening -- too tired, got to work late, by the time I've eaten it's too late, etc.

The solution for me was beautiful in its simplicity -- I get up at 5am and get a few miles in before jumping in the shower and getting ready for work at 6.30am.

As you say, Supersonic, it's about integrating activity into life, and that time of the day is the best fit for me in the week. Weekends I can still get up at 7am for a nice long ride, and it feels like lay-in.

supersonic

Another thing worth mentioning is stress - usually when you are stressed you eat more, generally bad stuff at that. Add to that the effect of cortisol and you end up storing more fat. Quite often you don't realise it is happening, hence again why regular check ups are important.

muddylegs

Thank you people.
I have read all your comments i think the way i am going to approach this is to try and get him out with his little boy and my two and go for a good walk along the sea front or harbour. He is quite interested in photography so this is how i am going to sell it to him lets go out with the boys and take some pictures.
His girlfreind does not have unhealthy food in the house he eats all of the rubbish food at work, as i dont work with him i cant over see that part.
It is the beer that seems to be doing the damage so i will be staying away from the pubs once he ash built up his fitness i will try and get him on his bike, instead of me riding i will run that will hep me as well. Now the evenings are longer we could easly go out after work.
I will keep you posted.