Any Enigma owners out there ?

Van Nick

Hi everyone,

Just wondering if there are any forummers out there that own an Enigma.

I'm very seriously considering buying myself either an Eclipse, or at a push, an Echo Enigma road bike.

Problem is, I've never even seen one, other than in photographs and the nearest dealer must be about 60 miles away.

Firstly, I'd be glad for any comments about build quality and handling etc and whether they are as good as some people seem to suggest. How do they compare with road bikes produced by other ti manufacturers such as VN, Sunday, Merlin, Lynskey or Burls etc ?

A slightly strange question, but does anyone have any experience of fitting a 28C tyre to either an Eclipse or Echo framed bike ? I'd just like to have the flexibility to have a wider tyre to allow me to use the bike on slightly rougher surfaces, as it would be a big investment for me and I'd obvioulsy like to use the bike as much as possible.

Photographs on the Enigma website would suggest to me that the Eclipse has a slightly wider tyre clearance than the Echo.

The Eclipse uses straight gauge tubing, whereas the Echo uses butted tubing and consequently the latter is very slightly lighter. Maybe this means that the Eclipse is stiffer.

I'd be very grateful for any comments from any forummers with experiences of the Enigma brand.

Many thanks in advance.

Van Nick

I guess that all of the Enigma owners must be out on their bikes enjoying this weather.

Either that or they are not as popular as I first thought.

alan_sherman

Wait for everyone ot get back to work and the messageboard picks up.

I'me considering getting an Enigma too - read the mag reviews on their site (reproduced from Cplus and others). from what I've heard on hear over the last couple of years the bikes are good, there are a few that are raced around the South East - infact there was on in the race I was in today. I'd say that you'd have to go for the custom option to get any advantage over the current Planet X titanium bike though.

Note that the designer of Enigma bikes is the guy that used to run Omega (in essence the bikes are the same). Omega folded with some aggro, but Jim Walker the new owner of Enigma seemed to honour a lot of the Omega orders. I don't think that should be an issue with buying a bike from them now but someone else is bound to bring it up. Also Sean Yates used to ride Omega bikes.

phil s

I have a medium Omega (which i'm selling when I get my ar$e in gear). I'm not so sure about the 28c tyres but I can tell you that the bikes are great handling and the ride is very nice, used mine for racing and the Etape. Omega/Enigma pretty much the same.

fast as fupp

my mates got an effusion-it looks nice.........................................................................




............................BUT the seat tube was oversize and out of shape-he had to make a shim for it out of a guinness can and the rear dropouts face FORWARD this causes the rear wheel to put to one side when under load.

it cost him £1200-my £450 giant alliance frame is better designed and made

Van Nick

Thanks to everyone who has so far replied.

Thanks "fast as fupp". Sounds like your mate got a bit of a raw deal which is a bit worrying.

Slow Downcp

fast as fupp wrote:

my mates got an effusion-it looks nice.........................................................................




............................BUT the seat tube was oversize and out of shape-he had to make a shim for it out of a guinness can and the rear dropouts face FORWARD this causes the rear wheel to put to one side when under load.

it cost him £1200-my £450 giant alliance frame is better designed and made

Isn't the seat tube meant to be oversize, and a shim used? Can't comment on the out of shape tho'.

Re the forward facing dropouts - again, this doesn't sound out of the ordinary if I understand correctly what you're saying. If the wheel pulls out of centre, it suggests a loose wheel?

fast as fupp

yes its meant to be 31.6 but its way out hence the beer can-the skewers on the wheels are so tight you can hardly undo them!

enigma offered him a 50% trade in-id have demanded my £££ back

hazychris

Van Nick wrote:

Just wondering if there are any forummers out there that own an Enigma.

I have an Enigma Esprit and can't fault it, or the service from Jim and Mark at Enigma - even during a busy weekend just before the Bike Show, they were very happy to spend time with me on sizing, and also let me have a test ride for an hour or so.

The bike is very nice, a classical shape, and it's the sort of bike you can ride all day every day without getting fatigued. It's not as stiff as the old Litespeed Mira (alloy with carbon seat tubes) I used to have, but it's not really lost me any speed. The real advantage though is the vertical compliance of the ride - Jim uses the word "sublime" a lot, and it really is an apt word to use!

The finish is good, maybe not up to the standard of the very best in titanium, but certainly draws some eyes while out on the road, and starts a few conversations. Spookily a week or so ago, while out on a club ride in Wantage, we passed another Enigma owner, who joined on the group and we "talked titanium" for the next 90 minutes or so! That was the only other Enigma I've seen out on the road.

If you get a chance to get own to Sussex to try out an Enigma, then do so - words on a forum don't really do justice to the ride!

Cheers,
Chris

neeb

Love my Enigma Esprit. Just compromised my recovery from today's ride with the best part of a bottle of Pinot Noir <hic!>, so perhaps not in the best state to comment, but here goes...

Haven't ridden any of the other Ti bikes you mention, but the technology employed in the design of the Enigma frames (tubing profiling etc) seems to be better than most. This is presumably due to the experience that the company has with Ti (basically they have Omega's design experience, but under different management) and is reflected in the positive experiences of owners such as my happy self.

I think maybe my Esprit could take a 700x28 at a pinch (never tried) but if you are going custom I'm sure this could be arranged, it's just a question of the precise position of the strut between the seatstays that the brake attaches to.

Strangely enough now that you mention it, the only tiny quibble I have with the otherwise flawless build quality of my frame is that the rear dropouts seem to toe-in very, very slightly from top to bottom (I'm extremely fussy and can spot things that are a millimeter or so out), but when the wheel is actually attached the alignment of everything is perfect. Certainly never had any problems with anything moving (well, it wouldn't, would it), and the position of the rear wheel with respect to the stays and the brakes is 100% spot on.

Incidentally, now that the 2008 Echo has double butted tubing I don't know what the difference is between it and the Esprit if you go custom. My bike is an Esprit, but I could have had the same geometry as the Echo if I'd wanted, and as it is, it has a slightly sloping top tube. So from the website you get the impression that the difference between the Echo and the Esprit is in the geometry, but as you can have any geometry you want if you go custom, this would seem to be irrelevant. Nonetheless the Esprit seems to be very slightly lighter (and non-compact geometry would tend to be heavier if anything) so I presume there is some other subtle difference in the tubing.

As far as ride quality goes, it's impossible to avoid all the cliches - it really does seem to have an uncanny ability to be extremely lively and exciting to ride while at the same time being very comfortable (maybe my Look HSC5SL fork helps with that too..) The bike is certainly everything I expected it to be and is simultaneously the most expensive thing I have bought in the past 2 years and the purchase I least regret.

Mike59

I have an Enigma Etape, and love it to bits. Coming from an MTB background and just getting back into road biking after 30 years :oops: , it ticked all the boxes.

It's light, smooth, comfortable and quick, but my main recommendation for buying an Enigma is the service you get from Mark and Jim. I had a minor problem with the transmission, and Mark was superb about getting it sorted out. He drove up from Sussex to fit a new front mech, then later fitted a new left shifter FOC. It now works flawlessly.

Other than that, I second the accolades mentioned above. On the tyre front, I have had 28s with full mudguards, no problem, but have now gone back to Conti 4 Seasons 25c as they feel the optimum (and I found out that Zondas have a max of 25c!)

mdg1157

I have an Omega Enigma, which seems to be the equivalent of rhe Enigma Esprit. Slightly different , butted tubes, diamond shaped top tube, 6/4 downtube and apparently built by ex USSR aerospace welders..... Love it to bits!!

bankend

I don't know whether the Eclipse or Echo will take a 28C tyre but the Etape certainly does + full SKS mudguards.

SORRY I WAS MISTAKEN ABOUT THIS - SEE SUBSEQUENT POST ON PAGE 2

Van Nick

Thanks to everyone that has contributed to this thread so far.

Carpe Diem

I,ve got an Etape, and previously had an Echo.

Both bikes are superb and so is the service from Jim and Mark.

I originally had the Echo for sportives (it did take a 28mm gatorskin tyre without guards.)

I then decided I wanted to do more audax rides and wanted the ability to fit guards, so I took advantage of their trade in service and got an Etape frame.

I could not tell any difference in performance between the models.

I actually travelled down there for the day and had a bike fit done by Mark, and then Jim built the bike for me.

Having delt with Jim on several occasions now, he strikes me as a man of integrity, and he is definately customer service focused.

I have had other titanium bikes but the Enigma's are the best I have ridden.

Carpe Diem

I,ve got an Etape, and previously had an Echo.

Both bikes are superb and so is the service from Jim and Mark.

I originally had the Echo for sportives (it did take a 28mm gatorskin tyre without guards.)

I then decided I wanted to do more audax rides and wanted the ability to fit guards, so I took advantage of their trade in service and got an Etape frame.

I could not tell any difference in performance between the models.

I actually travelled down there for the day and had a bike fit done by Mark, and then Jim built the bike for me.

Having delt with Jim on several occasions now, he strikes me as a man of integrity, and he is definately customer service focused.

I have had other titanium bikes but the Enigma's are the best I have ridden.

McBain_v1

As my signature suggests, I too have an Enigma (an Esprit).

I bought it because I really liked the frame geometry which was a huge plus for me, I don't got a bundle on these compact frames with slopey top-tubes etc. I was also after a titanium bike and considered Van Nicholas, Moots, Burls etc. but, after lengthy discussions with Jim Walker, opted for this bike.

I cannot fault the after sales service, which was has been first rate, although it is fair to say that there were a few niggles at first :

1 seat tube slipped - easily solved by using TACX assembly compound to make things more grippy;
2 rear cassette was a Campag when the bike should have had Dura-Ace throughout, easily solved by sending rear wheel back, came back with correct cassette fitted

As for the ride, it's fantastic - everything I wanted from it. Blinging looks, light and responsive, stable at speed (Reynolds Pro Ouzo fork is excellent). I am loving this weather and am out on my "best" bike as much as possible.

You should consider Enigma in any line up of Titanium frame / bike builders.

McBain_v1

As my signature suggests, I too have an Enigma (an Esprit).

I bought it because I really liked the frame geometry which was a huge plus for me, I don't got a bundle on these compact frames with slopey top-tubes etc. I was also after a titanium bike and considered Van Nicholas, Moots, Burls etc. but, after lengthy discussions with Jim Walker, opted for this bike.

I cannot fault the after sales service, which was has been first rate, although it is fair to say that there were a few niggles at first :

1 seat tube slipped - easily solved by using TACX assembly compound to make things more grippy;
2 rear cassette was a Campag when the bike should have had Dura-Ace throughout, easily solved by sending rear wheel back, came back with correct cassette fitted

As for the ride, it's fantastic - everything I wanted from it. Blinging looks, light and responsive, stable at speed (Reynolds Pro Ouzo fork is excellent). I am loving this weather and am out on my "best" bike as much as possible.

You should consider Enigma in any line up of Titanium frame / bike builders.

Van Nick

Thanks for that McBain_v1

Van Nick

bankend wrote:

I don't know whether the Eclipse or Echo will take a 28C tyre but the Etape certainly does + full SKS mudguards.

Thanks bankend.

Interestingly, Enigma state on the following page that the Etape has "Clearance for 25c tyres", which suggests that it cannot accommodate 28C tyres.

http://www.enigmabikes.com/etape.htm

giant_man

You should go onto the Enigma forum Van Nick, where Mark and Jim will answer any questions you have. They are very affable.

bankend

[quotebankend wrote:
I don't know whether the Eclipse or Echo will take a 28C tyre but the Etape certainly does + full SKS mudguards.


Thanks bankend.

Interestingly, Enigma state on the following page that the Etape has "Clearance for 25c tyres", which suggests that it cannot accommodate 28C tyres. [/quote]

I have just double checked mine and am embarrassed to say that the tyres are 25C after all. I haven't had it very long and bought it second hand but virtually unused and just had it in my head that they were 28C. All I can say in my own defence is that the tyres (Continental) have reflective tape which makes it very difficult to read the specifications on the tyre wall.

Many apologies for the inaccurate post. I will try to delete it if that is possible to avoid propogating inaccurate information.

bankend

Van Nick wrote:

bankend wrote:

I don't know whether the Eclipse or Echo will take a 28C tyre but the Etape certainly does + full SKS mudguards.

Thanks bankend.

Interestingly, Enigma state on the following page that the Etape has "Clearance for 25c tyres", which suggests that it cannot accommodate 28C tyres.

http://www.enigmabikes.com/etape.htm

I have just double checked mine and am embarrassed to say that the tyres are 25C after all. I haven't had it very long and bought it second hand but virtually unused and just had it in my head that they were 28C. All I can say in my own defence is that the tyres (Continental) have reflective tape which makes it very difficult to read the specifications on the tyre wall.

Many apologies for the inaccurate post. I will try to delete it if that is possible to avoid propagating inaccurate information.

SJLcp

I have an OMEGA HELIX which runs 25mm tyres without difficulty - looking at it I think you could easily go up to 28 as well - most modern bikes seem to allow for wider tyres than those of yesteryear.

I would echo previous comments on misaligned rear dropouts - mine are also not perfect which is not a disaster but an irritant. Also find myself have to over tighten skewers to stop axle slipping forward in horizontal dropouts. Certainly worth keeping an eye on.

cyclingvet

I purchased an Enigma Esprit frame in January after travelling all the way down to East Sussex from Leicester to speak to Mark and Jim and have a test ride. It was an extremely extravagant purchase considering I also have a Colnago CLX , but having seen a friend's virtually brand new Argon carbon frame fall appart I am a bit a bit nervous about carbon, particularly in sportives when there is more chance of crashing..

Since building it up I have ridden it most of the time and last weekend did my first sportive of the summer on it. I find the ride *very* comfortable which is important if you're regualrly doing long rides or sportives but it is still stiff enough to be great at climbing hills. . Despite the lack of a paint job, it also looks great with a bit of black and and red to contrast with the bare titanium. Build quality is excellent. I found Jim and Mark very helpul and I would seriously recommend going to their base in Sussex for a test ride, bike fit and a chat.

giant_man

cyclingvet wrote:

I purchased an Enigma Esprit frame in January after travelling all the way down to East Sussex from Leicester to speak to Mark and Jim and have a test ride. It was an extremely extravagant purchase considering I also have a Colnago CLX , but having seen a friend's virtually brand new Argon carbon frame fall appart I am a bit a bit nervous about carbon, particularly in sportives when there is more chance of crashing.

Excuse me? Please elaborate about the defective Argon 18 frame.

cyclingvet

After only 500 miles the chanstay cracked. They replaced the frame under warranty ,but the new frame suffered with speed wobble, so he's sold it and has bought a Cannondale System 6.

giant_man

First time I have heard of an Argon frame defective. How about that, thanks for info.