5 years in the slammer

dave_1

should be enough to clean up the TDF a bit this summer. Just jail them on the confirmation of the B test? Would you chance a mid point TDF blood transfusion knowing what happens if you get caught with the evidence , bag , drip etc? Surely this rules out most or all of the peleton from doping during the TDF given what that they'd previously only had to feara higly contested dope testing procedures, with lawyers and paid experts muddying the waters as much as possible fior guilty rider......whereas now...a long stretch in jail if caught with stuff.

This law is good news . Basso and Ullrich would have gone straight to jail if they'd been caught in the act


http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/p ... ance-16065

LangerDan

Hard to see this sticking. Firstly, can your own blood be considered a "doping product"? Secondly because you are now in the realm of the criminal court system, the burden of proof will be much higher. The slightest cock-up in obtaining or procssing the sample and the case will be in the bin. I'd guess that the penalties in the article are the maximum tariff that can be imposed. It is very unlikely that they will risk putting an athlete in jail for some minor level offense.

I'm not sure that it will be completely successful - the penalites for drink driving are more stringent and the offence is easier to detect but it doesn't stop people doing it.
In any case, by the time this is fully implemented, the rugby and soccer authorities will have succeded in some serious dilution.

DaveyL

Michael Ashenden seems to think that the level of proof required to make a doping violation stick "far exceeds that required to send a man to prison for the rest of his life." I wonder if that's really the case.

Richrd2205

Hmmmm
Working with folk to enable them to change their substance use patterns is what I do professionally, so I find the whole, "how do we stop dopers?" debate fascinating...

Can I suggest that we file this idea somewhere beneath making convicted dopers wear a big, "I am a bad person!" hat, t-shirt, shorts etc?

(With credit to Prochaska & DiClimente)
People need to believe:
In what is going on
That there will be a direct benefit to them in complying (health belief behaviour change model)
That said benefit will outweigh the cost of complying....

Most "anti-doping" ignores dopers & their motivations, so will fail. Much like the "war on drugs."

If we want to pursue strategies that we know have failed in an environment where they're more likely to work, then let's go right ahead....

We know they won't work, but that's no enough to stop us, is it?

donrhummy

Dave_1 wrote:

should be enough to clean up the TDF a bit this summer. Just jail them on the confirmation of the B test? Would you chance a mid point TDF blood transfusion knowing what happens if you get caught with the evidence , bag , drip etc? Surely this rules out most or all of the peleton from doping during the TDF given what that they'd previously only had to feara higly contested dope testing procedures, with lawyers and paid experts muddying the waters as much as possible fior guilty rider......whereas now...a long stretch in jail if caught with stuff.

This law is good news . Basso and Ullrich would have gone straight to jail if they'd been caught in the act


http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/p ... ance-16065

Right because harsh laws always stop criminals from committing crimes. :roll:

vermooten

Although the difficulties are in the detail, it certainly sends a strong message and is bound to make people think twice. It adds a big obstacle, e.g. I heard that Raimundo Rumsas didn't help his team in the 2007 Marmotte because, by stepping foot into France, he'd've been up before the beak for doping crimes.

iainf72

Detection is a deterant.

Punishment is not.

If someone could dope, win races and earn more cash yet stand very little chance of being caught or not dope and amount to very little why on earth would a prison sentence have any impact on what they choose to do?

That's a pound for the doping-box.

flattythehurdler

Fear of detection has to play a part.

Kléber

We have the rules and punishments already, these are not the problems. The problem is enforcing the rules and detection. If riders knew they'd be caught and punished, they wouldn't bother.

It's like speeding in a car. The limit might be 30mph for a road but almost everyone drives above it and almost nobody is caught. So you ignore one rule and start to pick and choose which rules you want to follow, maybe use your mobile or have a pint too many before driving etc.

The same is true for doping. Many have been getting away with it, those running the teams and others operating in elite cycling have a total disrespect for the rules. Like Richrd2205 says, you can stop doping when you put riders on a team where the aim is to ride clean, when you take care of the riders. But you need to follow up this approach with some more active anti-doping rules and hopefully the UCI is beginning to wake up to this, with tracking the men in black and upgrading the whereabouts system.

Tom Butcher

It's not just the riders - this is going to impact on doctors and others who at the moment are effectively not being punished at all. I think it is a good thing - yes of course it needs to be coupled with dopers being detected - but they are catching a fair number of high profile riders.

dave_1

Tom Butcher wrote:

It's not just the riders - this is going to impact on doctors and others who at the moment are effectively not being punished at all. I think it is a good thing - yes of course it needs to be coupled with dopers being detected - but they are catching a fair number of high profile riders.

it would certainly make the logistical support of group wide, team wide doping that much more risky...but the danger is of course when the race goes close to tother national borders it will happen outwith that country? One thing that always stuck in my mind was the cycling weekly or cycle sport journos who saw Eric Zabel cycle away from his team hotel in training gear in the late evening in pitch black when part of T mob in 2004 or 03...where was he going? No pro is wise to be out training in the dark

meagain

No doubt entirely irrelevant (as in not) but is it not ages since a Frenchman has won Le Tour? The irony of the sporting links of the promoter of the legislation seems somehow to escape me....but I expect I'll figure it shortly....

Seems that the French have fallen for the UK legislative disease, believing that if declare X illegal, then X will cease.

drenkrom

Since when have politicians given the slightest whiff of a f@ck if what they implement actually works or not. As long as they can take credit for the implementation, their work is done.

I think this is lots of smoke and mirrors and material to be used in press conferences during the Tour if things go awry again.