Valv.piti
flattythehurdler
Posts: 2,314
In my considered opinion, his fall in 2006 was very odd, to say the least. i reckon he took a dive because of the puerto fallout. Did nothing since but has now suddenly sprung back to form. I reckon he's got new medical advice after scrubbing round for a year for a source. What price on a podium in the tour?(Is he allowed to ride it at the moment or not?)
Dan
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That may as well be but he hardly bombed last year did he? Second at both the Fleche Wallone and Liege-Bastogne-Liege and 6th overall in the first Tour he completed. A lot of riders would judge that as a decent season.0
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He did nothing? Did you sleep through 07?
2007
2nd, Liège-Bastogne-Liège
2nd, La Flèche Wallonne
7th, Amstel Gold Race
5th Overall, Vuelta al País Vasco
3rd, Stage 4
1st, Overall, Volta a la Comunitat Valenciana
1st Overall, Vuelta a Murcia
1st Stage 4
3rd Overall,Critérium International
1st, Points classification
1st Stage 4, Vuelta a Burgos
6th Overall, Tour de France
2nd, Stage 9
And in 06 he finished 2nd in the Vuelta after Puerto?
Of course he's allowed to ride - Why wouldn't he be?Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
I agree, but given his previous apparent form, it was a quiet year. Pre Fuentes he would have been expected to beat Cadel in a grand tour I would have thought.Dan0
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Because I'm sure everyone loves breaking their collarbone in that way don't they?0
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Valvs form at TDF 07 had all the hall marks of clean riding...strong on Galibier early in week two and weaker in last week in pyrenees...a far cry from his completely incredible domination of both vuelta mountain top finishes and bunch sprint wins at Kelme in 2003...0
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It's easy to look at a pattern and fit a story to it but Vinokourov had a variable Tour, strong one minute and then cracking in the mountains the next.0
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kleber, I strongly disagree with you on that. Vino crashed in week 1 of TDF and had blood transfusions mid race...this explains his up and down days crystal clear. There's no evidence for Valverde's progressive tiredness as the race wore on and no eratic brilliant or bad days...has the hallmarks of not valv piti0
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My point wasn't so much that we have "proof" Valverde was riding clean, just beware of deriving too much from the way he was riding. Illness, bad days, the wrong training etc could all have played their part too. But the way Valverde, Pereiro and Karpets all disappointed suggested something within the team had changed, but it's only a suggestion...0
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If he broke his collarbone. It was a very odd place to crash.Dan0
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Kléber wrote:My point wasn't so much that we have "proof" Valverde was riding clean, just beware of deriving too much from the way he was riding. Illness, bad days, the wrong training etc could all have played their part too. But the way Valverde, Pereiro and Karpets all disappointed suggested something within the team had changed, but it's only a suggestion...
but you realise the strength and benefits form steroids and other hormones, and EPO can last for years.
So, no, he was not on the strong medical program he was, he backed off, but he was still getting legacy benefit.
And I assume he was still doing some hgh at the least, and perhaps boosting blood with microdosing or dynepo.0 -
iainf72 wrote:He did nothing? Did you sleep through 07?
2007
2nd, Liège-Bastogne-Liège
2nd, La Flèche Wallonne
7th, Amstel Gold Race
5th Overall, Vuelta al País Vasco
3rd, Stage 4
1st, Overall, Volta a la Comunitat Valenciana
1st Overall, Vuelta a Murcia
1st Stage 4
3rd Overall,Critérium International
1st, Points classification
1st Stage 4, Vuelta a Burgos
6th Overall, Tour de France
2nd, Stage 9
And in 06 he finished 2nd in the Vuelta after Puerto?
Of course he's allowed to ride - Why wouldn't he be?
Aaand, FOR A RIDER OF HIS SUPPOSED QUALITY, he won nothing of significance, and never threatened to podium at the tour, which is what a rider of his supposed quality should do. Look at Cadel.Dan0 -
forearms Van Petegem wrote:Kléber wrote:My point wasn't so much that we have "proof" Valverde was riding clean, just beware of deriving too much from the way he was riding. Illness, bad days, the wrong training etc could all have played their part too. But the way Valverde, Pereiro and Karpets all disappointed suggested something within the team had changed, but it's only a suggestion...
but you realise the strength and benefits form steroids and other hormones, and EPO can last for years.
So, no, he was not on the strong medical program he was, he backed off, but he was still getting legacy benefit.
And I assume he was still doing some hgh at the least, and perhaps boosting blood with microdosing or dynepo.
exactly....you bank the training benefits...because at your max no human body can train over 17,000 miles a year at the intensities required for races of the 25mph-27mph avearge speed such as a pro tour season demands without getting ill, run down naturally..but with EPO you can up it over 20,000 miles a year and bank the benefits even once off the juice...hence 2 years bans minium is justified. Vino even now will still have a reserve of available strength with new training which is the result of the brutal training regimes his methods must have allowed up to 07.0 -
I presume the benefit would now be minimal (in the absence of further preparation facilitated by retiring away from the drug testers in the year prior to the Olympics) ((Maybe he should have moved to China))Dan0
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I'm with Dave_1 on this.
About this time last year, I was looking around to see who to "support" in the tour and actually posted on here to get people's views on Valverde's chances.
To cut a long story short after one promising days he was pretty disappointing, always off the pace and for a while (he'll be devastated to hear!!) I went off him. But after the tour it occurred to me that this COULD well be the performance of a clean rider who'se not prepared as perfectly as required.
We should still try to give the benefit of the doubt as hard as it is. There must be clean riders out there, somewhere.
That's my tupence, for what it's worth.
DM0 -
flattythehurdler wrote:If he broke his collarbone. It was a very odd place to crash.
Are you serious? "Stomach upset" is a bit easier to fake than a broken collarbone...0 -
DavidMiller wrote:I'm with Dave_1 on this.
About this time last year, I was looking around to see who to "support" in the tour and actually posted on here to get people's views on Valverde's chances.
To cut a long story short after one promising days he was pretty disappointing, always off the pace and for a while (he'll be devastated to hear!!) I went off him. But after the tour it occurred to me that this COULD well be the performance of a clean rider who'se not prepared as perfectly as required.
We should still try to give the benefit of the doubt as hard as it is. There must be clean riders out there, somewhere.
That's my tupence, for what it's worth.
DM
Mottet and Caritoux are names the spring to mind, Lemond and Hampsten...others who will be terrified of a Tyler Hamilton type demise so won't do ...2 types who won't cheat...I think we can support some of the riders in 080 -
Who said he'd broken his collarbone? Team doctor?
Fair point though, or mononucleosis.
Still think the crash was odd.Dan0 -
DavidMiller wrote:I'm with Dave_1 on this.
About this time last year, I was looking around to see who to "support" in the tour and actually posted on here to get people's views on Valverde's chances.
To cut a long story short after one promising days he was pretty disappointing, always off the pace and for a while (he'll be devastated to hear!!) I went off him. But after the tour it occurred to me that this COULD well be the performance of a clean rider who'se not prepared as perfectly as required.
We should still try to give the benefit of the doubt as hard as it is. There must be clean riders out there, somewhere.
That's my tupence, for what it's worth.
DM
Casar, a Tour podium rider if the peloton was clean. He does not ride fo GC as it is, how could your morale get sucker punched day in day out.0 -
so Valverde faked a crash to get out of the Tour?
:roll:0 -
No, I think you'll find that Prince Philip was probably behind it all...Le Blaireau (1)0
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Possibly.drenkrom wrote:so Valverde faked a crash to get out of the Tour?
:roll:
Why don't you look at the crash before commenting?Dan0 -
flattythehurdler wrote:
Possibly.drenkrom wrote:so Valverde faked a crash to get out of the Tour?
:roll:
Why don't you look at the crash before commenting?
Love to but where can we watch it? If you could remind us the race at which it occurred then my youtube search might find something.
Thanks,
David0 -
early in the 2006 tour. Definitely first week. Stage 3 or 4 maybe?
I am actually being mischievous, though the crash was atypical. Didn't really seem to have a cause.Dan0 -
flattythehurdler wrote:early in the 2006 tour. Definitely first week. Stage 3 or 4 maybe?
I am actually being mischievous, though the crash was atypical. Didn't really seem to have a cause.
From memory, it was on a long straight road and the bunch was cruising - Valverde was at the back of the peloton, someone touched his wheel, he crashed? What is atypical about that? They happen in virtually every race - lull in the race, someone's attention drifts...
Aren't you more likely to break your collarbone in a (relatively) slow speed crash than a high speed one?
You haven't explained why Valverde would fake an injury to get out of the Tour, either. Why bother starting in the first place?0
