Get Back to Work !!!!!

pat1cp

Teachers and the Employees at Grangemouth.

Average teachers pay - £ 34000
If you don't like the money do something else, don't f'about with young peoples education. GCSE exams are starting in three weeks.

Average pay at Grangemouth £ 40000
Who the hell gets a final salary, non contributory pension these days ? Wise up.

pedylan

You may have a point with public sector employees with final salry and generous holidays.

The oil industry is making money beyond the dreams of avarice. If management can at the same time contemplate cutting worker benefits whilst paying themselves mind boggling bonuses (as a result of profits brought about by world conditions not their skills and acumen) then it's they who can think again!

azzerb

My college teachers said it's to do with the inequality between teacher pay and college teacher pay (even if it's sixth form and college there is a difference), and the teachers are just joining in.

I can see a point in what my lecturers say and money is money. But they also chose to do that job, and all agreed they wouldn't go near a secondary school and prefer less money for better job. They're hating compulsory education to 18 if it comes about.

A couple of my teachers just wanted the day off, i don't mind, I go to college because i like the responsibility and being treated like an adult, so i can do my work on my own for one day. But Teachers...Pshhhh, stop complaining.

pat1cp

pedylan wrote:

You may have a point with public sector employees with final salry and generous holidays.

The oil industry is making money beyond the dreams of avarice. If management can at the same time contemplate cutting worker benefits whilst paying themselves mind boggling bonuses (as a result of profits brought about by world conditions not their skills and acumen) then it's they who can think again!

The exploration companys are currently making the big bucks ie. The companys extracting the oil from the ground. They then sell the oil to a refiner (Ineos, Grangmouth) who refines the oil then sells it for our cars. They are not making the same money as the likes of Shell, BP et al. And don't forget, this robbing government gets over 70p/litre everytime you fill your car up.

jellybellywmb

We would all like more money, don't like it get a different job and stop moaning.
I got a crap payrise this year but did I go on strike , NO!!

My wife has had to take a days holiday today to look after our 5 year old.
Thats one day less I can spend on holiday with my family.

No sympathy here.

georgee

yes, would be nice if they realised we're hardly in the late 70's here, you're hardly on the breadline, one mate who is a teacher is spending the day on the golf course (as if he doesnt't have 3 months off a year to do this!), not stood round a brazier then running police lines with Arthur Scargill.

Yes the economy isn't in great shape, I was about to move to a new job which got pulled yesterday due to the market, but deal with it, and if your paid tin pot wages and expect a 100% mortgageat 5% and a £100 fee piss off those arn't sensible loan terms in the best of times, it's just the financial world getting a bit of a sense of reality.

jpembroke

I find it strange how many people in this country bash teachers, go on about their long holidays, and their favourable pay, and their short working days, and how it's such a cushy number in comparison to being a [insert any job here], yet there are 1000s of teacher job vacancies across the UK. If it's such a doss then why is this the case? Surely people should be queuing up.

Be honest, if most of us on this forum were told we had to give up our job to spend even a week in a classroom of 15 year olds, we'd sh*t ourselves. I tried it once and lasted 3 months, and that was in a school in Cheltenham. It was the hardest 3 months of my life working easily 12-14 hours a day - a real wake up call.

The more we bash teachers in this country the fewer teachers there will be. They leave not because of the pay (although that may be a contributing factor) but because of lack of respect from parents and kids. Then we'll moan about how cr*p the local schools are and what a nightmare it is trying to get our kids in to the school of our choice because it's over subscribed 5 times over, and how we'll just have to go private, or move house, or convert to a new religion, or leave the country. In the meantime, the less favourable schools go in to a spiral of decline and become sink schools churning out kids with no qualifications and no aspirations. And we'll blame the teachers. And so it goes on. You reap what you sow.

johnnyc71

I get in to school at 7:30am and leave after 5:30pm every day - it's not cushy hours. I also believe that teachers deserve their holidays - If you do a decent job - you'll need them.
BTW - I wasn't on strike today - diffferent union for me.

nick hanson

Fully agree with jellybellywmb.Not knocking teachers,but if you aint happy with your job....move on.
We'd all love a final salary,indexed linked pension,but out there in the real (private sector) world,Employers can't stretch to it.If only Government would wake up to this,& slash public expenditure on pensions,the better off the rest of us would be.

jpembroke

Just trying to draw attention to the bigger picture. If teachers continue to leave because they aren't happy with their jobs then where will we be in 10-20 years? Just saying 'put up or shut up' is not the answer - the rot will just get deeper and deeper. I'm fairly sure that if teacher shortages continue then we'll either have to start importing them (I imagine there are people here who wouldn't like that), or we'll have schools on 4 day weeks because there aren't enough teachers to cover everything. Most school departments are already 1 or 2 teachers short already.

You talk about the 'real' world. If workers left in droves in the private sector then a company might go down the tubes and be replaced in the market place by a competitor. The same will not happen in our education system - it'll just go into a spiral of decline. I assume we all want an education system for our children so encouraging teachers to leave when there is no one lining up to replace them is a very bad idea.

johnnyc71

Many teachers are happy with the job - It's a given that teachers have a good pension, but the question is do they actually deserve more money?

It's either a yes or a no - simple really.

Personally - I have enough money to live on - and don't go without, so I'm not really asking for more money myself. I'll only spend it on new bike gear anyway!

With the economy like it is, only a small percentage of people will be getting decent pay rises.

In relation to the "average" pay - what does it mean to me. I must be below average - been a teacher for 5 years and not earning £34000 myself. NQT's start on £21000 - similar to nurses, but not as much as the police.

SteveR_100Milers

Wahey more of the why should I pay brigade...

My wife's a teacher, though not in the NUT so not on strike. She doesnt earn anything like £34k, thats more like department head or even dupty head salary. She works about 3 hours every night either assessing or planning for the next day. She takes her job far more seriously than I do and gets paid less than half.
Personally, I find it therefore offensive when parents start moaning that teachers dont either work hard enough or long enough. Most parents seem to have become lazy and expect schools to be surrogate parents, indeed how many have whinged about having to pay for extra childcare for the day!! It's not a bleedin child day care centre for your convenience. It's a school, responsible for supporting the education of your children, and frankly compared to when I was a kid a mere 30 years ago its a bargain. So stop whining.

jellybellywmb

jpembroke wrote:

I find it strange how many people in this country bash teachers, go on about their long holidays, and their favourable pay, and their short working days, and how it's such a cushy number in comparison to being a [insert any job here], yet there are 1000s of teacher job vacancies across the UK. If it's such a doss then why is this the case? Surely people should be queuing up.

Don't get me wrong I a have nothing but respect for the jobs teachers do and no I could not do the job in a million years.
Teachers , as it has been said do not have enough respect from pupils or parents that back there little darlings against the teachers authority.

My simple point is that a lot of people have tough jobs but most choose their proffession so you know what you are going into when you train/apply.

My best friend is a Police Seargent and his wife is a Head Teacher and they are the only couple in our circle of friends with 5 bedroom House 2 BMW's 2 Motorbikes and take 3 x Holidays a year so it can't really be is bad as all that.

jpembroke

Head teachers earn stacks 6 figures in inner city comps. Would you judge a soldier's pay as adequate based on the standard of living of a General?

pat1cp

My biggest gripe with the NUT is the timing of it all. They've timed the strike in such a manner thinking it might have more clout ie. 2-3 weeks before the GCSE's start.

I had to walk out of the room last night whilst watching the news before I threw something at the TV.

As for that fat UNITE Union chap, what a t0sser. :twisted: :evil:

Is it a full moon? Or my time of the month. :oops:

phil s

I agree with jpembroke's points. I also think people need to wake up and realise that we need the best people in teaching jobs if the country is to have any hope for the future. Teachers, nurses, doctors, coppers, etc, etc, etc... these are the folk we should value and invest our public money in rather than sending young men to die or get maimed in faraway countries or spending billions on the two-week corporate schmooze-fest that is 2012.

redddraggon

Teachers don't such a bad deal, plenty of other professions which need higher qualifications get paid worse and don't have as good job security.

I'm not saying teachers don't earn their money - but don't most people?

jellybellywmb

jpembroke wrote:

Head teachers earn stacks 6 figures in inner city comps. Would you judge a soldier's pay as adequate based on the standard of living of a General?

Both a head teacher and a general have worked hard and earned promotions to earn thier large saleries. so yes I would judge a soldiers pay as adequate compared to a general.
I have been in the forces and had a really low wage but I would not have expected to earn the same as a 22 year Captian you work your way up people just expect wage rise as the norm, bloody earn them.

There was a girl on the news who said it was her first year in the job and after her mortgage and other expenses are paid she has no money left to go out etc, Tough!! do not live beyond your means.

The other thing that really gripes me is that last year I took my son out of school for two days to go on holiday and I got all sorts of letters saying this is the wrong thing to do etc etc etc.
But they want to strike and hey suddenly a day off is fine.

jpembroke

Whilst I'm not the biggest fan of the NUT, I can't see the point of striking unless it's going to have an impact. Having a strike when it's more convenient for parents - i.e. holidays - is not going to achieve anything.

Not that this will achieve much either.

SteveR_100Milers

redddraggon wrote:

Teachers don't such a bad deal, plenty of other professions which need higher qualifications get paid worse and don't have as good job security.

I'm not saying teachers don't earn their money - but don't most people?

such as?

And do the maths based upon real cost per hour worked (so factor in 2 hours a night at home as well).

And what about responsibility? Technical qualifications are great on paper, but teachers are responsible for much more than the financial budgets or scientific challenges that a lot of use are. We are nation of short termism, hence we have no car industry or aerospace industry, despite having originally shown the rest of the world how to do it. I'm afraid that as a nation we suffer from an appaling lack of vision compared to some of our European neighbours let alone some of the more enterpreneurial emerging nations.

jpembroke

Here's one for you: apparently if every maths graduate leaving university this year went in to teaching maths, there still wouldn't be enough maths teachers in our schools. I'm not sure how many year's worth of math's graduates are required to fill current vacancies but it's a few. Right now your child may be being taught maths by someone with a geography degree. Who are you going to blame for this? The teachers?

And here's another one: there are more qualified teachers not teaching than there are in schools doing the job. Yes, that's right they took the advice and left.

No one is going in to teaching. There is a desperate shortage of teachers and this has being going on for years. If the pay is adequate and holidays great then surely these jobs should be sought after. Schools regularly run job adverts in the TES and get no applicants.

Yet still we bash teachers. Ask yourself this question? Why wouldn't you go in to teaching? If you have a degree then they are desperate for you. There's plenty of work, you can get a job just about anywhere, apparently a good salary, and then there's those long holidays. So why not do it?

To put it plainly, we don't value education in this country and we certainly don't value educators. This thread is proof of that. We need to stop attempting to compare education to industry (to the real world???) and telling teachers that if they don't like it they should quit, because that's exactly what they are doing. Education is the bedrock of our society and if people in this country could see it that way then we wouldn't be in this situation.

Next time your kid is being taught by a different supply teacher every day you'll know why: it's because their 'real' teacher gave up to go and work in the 'real' world.

johnnyc71

Well said JPEMBROKE - have a house point!

The school I work in appears to exist in the "real" world. There's a surprise. I don't mind people stating their opinions, as long as their not overally generalised, sterotypically based, and err "REAL".

Have a nice day everyone - I'm off to mark 90 bits of work, then spend some time planning my lessons. Oh, then I have to organise some after school clubs, after all I want your children to have access to sporting opportunites. Then I'll think about the swimming gala, basketball competition, and 2 upcoming football matches, which I'll be managing. Oh yes, I almost forgot to add, most of these will be on weekends, or out of school hours. Yep, us teachers have it sooooooooo easy. I advise all of you to jump into this profession - you'll love it!!!!!!!!!

ilovesherbet

pat1cp wrote:

Average pay at Grangemouth £ 40000
Who the hell gets a final salary, non contributory pension these days ? Wise up.

Average pay. Most the people on strike get less than that, as they're are people there on £100,000+ which puts up the average.
What about the fact that £40million was taking out their pension fund?
When Ineos took over it was going to carry on with BP's conditions and has systematically found loopholes to stop them.
I don't work there, I do work over the road though and I full heartedly support their strike - would do the same if I was in their shoes.
I think the teachers are just being greedy.

nolf

Thing is that refinery was responsible for the power and steam for the North sea forties Pipeline which carries about 70% of our North sea oil plus up to 20% of the UK's gas. This has caused lot's of platforms who rely on that pipe to suspend their operations as well. Plus this will no doubt further raise gas prices in the short term.

I just think that due to the wider effects of the strike it's a bit sefish of the workers to force the issue and I (for once) agree with Gordon Brown when he says "There is no need for an industrial dispute to flare up here".