Fully prepared
flattythehurdler
Posts: 2,314
A quick opinion from all of the gurus on here. In their prime, Lance, Contador, Chicken, Basso and Ullrich, all fully fit and "prepared".
Who would win the tour?
And why?
Who would win the tour?
And why?
Dan
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P.S. I reckon Basso.Dan0
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But did you check the wattage basso was chucking out at the Giro before he got suspended?Dan0
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Wattage schmattage - Lance dropped Basso in the Tour when it really mattered.0
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I would argue that the Basso of the pre fuentes Giro was an altogether different beast to the one that a fully prepped and full grown lance dropped. I still reckon basso.Bronzie wrote:Wattage schmattage - Lance dropped Basso in the Tour when it really mattered.Dan0 -
All things (including blood volumes) being equal.Dan0
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flattythehurdler wrote:
I would argue that the Basso of the pre fuentes Giro was an altogether different beast to the one that a fully prepped and full grown lance dropped. I still reckon basso.Bronzie wrote:Wattage schmattage - Lance dropped Basso in the Tour when it really mattered.
You seriously think Basso was clean when he won the Giro?0 -
But who would ensure Ullrich would actually get fit?0
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Flatty, those derived power figures are based on a lot of assumptions. Without hard and fast outputs from a pair of SRM cranks, quoted power outputs are a bit of a red herring I think.
Also, power alone is not the whole story. Look at how Contador rides (repeated short bursts of speed on the climbs) versus Ullrich, Lance and Basso who all tended to ride steady tempo on the climbs, albeit a very fast one.0 -
Lance, from Basso, Ullrich and some way back, Contador and Rasmussen.
Basso wouldn't put any meaningful time into Lance on the climbs and Lance would destroy him in the TTs. Plus Lance would survive the long flat / rolling stages early in the race far better.
Ulle would lose too much on the climbs to Basso to recover in the time trials. Plus if the weather wasn't exactly right, Jan would have a bad day.
Contador can match Ras stroke for stroke on the climbs but seems to be a more rounded rider in terms of abilities.'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'0 -
Armstrong, no question about it.
It's one thing to put watts into pedals, it's quite another to put your opponents in a situation where they don't believe they can put as many watts into the pedals as you can. Once you've done that, the race is mostly won already. Armstrong was the best at looking better than guys who probably could've trounced him if they believed it themselves. Performance does not all happen in muscle fibers, loads of it goes down in gray matter.
Besides, Lance, Chicken, Basso and Ullrich, all fully fit and "prepared", isn't that like the 2005 Tour?0 -
I just suspect that in 2004 basso was clean(ish), and still wasn't far off. By 2006, when he was "considering preparing " with Dr Fuentes, he put in the most dominant display in a grand tour that I can remember. Assuming that his preparation , in 2006, was, for the first time, roughly the equivalent to lance's throughout his seven wins, Baso was a far far stronger rider than he was in 2004. Is it not possible that he could have taken him in 2006?Dan0
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SunWuKong wrote:But who would ensure Ullrich would actually get fit?
You have got to admire a man that dropped the entire pro peleton apart from Lance on so many climbs and so many times when he was not fit. Give me his unfitness any day.
Any way for me
Lance - any year fitness
Ullrich - 1997,2001 and 2003
Basso - 2006 fitness
contador
rasmussen.Brian B.0 -
You'd have to go for Armstrong wouldn't you - I mean his record in the Tour is streets ahead of any of the others. I reckon his time trialling would be decisive over the likes of Basso - I don't think Basso has it in him to ride aggressively enough to put sufficient time into Armstrong in the mountains and I reckon that Armstrong is a better finisher and if they were together at the top Armstrong would steal the time bonuses.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
Armstrong. I think he spanned the era of EPO and blood doping. EPO allowed huge performance gains but the "vampire" blood testing means riders could not push the 50% limit too far. Once the EPO test came out, supposedly some switched to blood doping and being able to "juice up" on their own blood in the team bus before the start, they could thicken their blood to a greater degree, and with more control, than using EPO. So arguably the performances were more distorted after 2001 than before.
Armstrong managed to beat cheats in both eras, so he'd be my pick.0 -
Brian: Just a joke mate. I think it is a shame he often wasn't in the best possible shape in several tours.0
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The problem is that we will probably never see basso at his peak age fully prepared now. LA always beat everything in front of him though so you may be right. I really hate doping, but would love to see these boys slugging it out on an even playing field.Dan0
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Lance 2001 dicks on them all.
Ullrich 97 is closest.
There's a big gap to the minor placings.
Also how could anyone in a Ferretti team be clean?It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
Basso was clean pre-2006? Say hello to the tooth fairy and the LollyPop Prince for me when you meet her in Imagination Land.0
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iainf72 wrote:Timoid. wrote:
Also how could anyone in a Ferretti team be clean?
Can you be clean after a Ferretti team? And if so, can you win Fleche Wallonne?
Ah but he mended his ways at erm... T-MobileIt's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
Timoid. wrote:
Well, Kirchen has improved greatly over the past few years. He was always a great rider who could do a big of everything. He could sprint on the flat, he could sprint uphill, he could compete on the bergs of Ardennes.
But he has added timetrialling and climbing high mountains to his armoury. Top 10 finish at the Tour last year, although he got a few minutes in that Vino break.
I think he won a short timetrial or long prologue last year, late last year.
The guy can do it all. Like to see him attack like Gilbert, although he was animating Amstel, there early.
So, is he clean? Be hard to believe it. His progression post Fassa has been too good. If he was running the entire platform of PEDs on Fassa, I find it hard to believe he is now on bread and water. At the least he is running some HGH, and a dynepo, or microdosed epo, and perhaps some fast acting, fast flushing, testo cremes.0 -
flattythehurdler wrote:A quick opinion from all of the gurus on here. In their prime, Lance, Contador, Chicken, Basso and Ullrich, all fully fit and "prepared".
Who would win the tour?
And why?
Lance, easily. He'd do more, work harder, take more pain and attack more than anyone else in that group (I'm assuming everyone's team is exactly the same). And Lance was not only the best time trialist but also the best climber when he was winning those tours (and even won a sprint in one of them).Timoid. wrote:Lance 2001 dicks on them all.
What about 2004? He won 5 stages and took the TTT to boot.0
