Incident - Advice sought

Bodman

On my commute this morning I was overtaken by a taxi, as it past me two young adults hung out of the window and shouted at me, no idea what was said but it scared me half to death. Fortunately about half a mile later the taxi was caught in traffic so I was able to note the details. The occupants saw me again and started laughing.
They probably thought what they were doing was funny, I didn't.

I have reported the incident to the taxi firm, who assured me that they would investigate and talk to the driver. I'm happy for this to happen, but wonder what laws if any may have been broken and who else I could report this to and if I did what would they be able to do.
I have no intention of progressing this further, as I've clamed down and feel the fact that I have reported it may be enough.

Any comments / views?

pst88

As far as I know shouting at someone is not a crime. You'd be best to either ignore them, or shout back with appropriate gestures depending on how mature you're feeling.

bradshaw_chris

Exactly the same thing happened to me, except it was in a chavy Fiesta. They stopped at the lights ahead and I told them to wind down the window. He tried to ignore me, but I persited tapping on the window. He wound down the window and had the following conversation:

Me: Did you think that was funny?
Him: (Shrug of shoulders)
Me: Really, did you think that was funny?
Him: I suppose so...
Me: Well it wasn't funny, THIS IS FUNNY!

I then proceded to smack his wing mirror off. I actually only meant to bend it backwards - but the whole unit fell of and smashed on the road. I'm pleased with myself now, but was sh*t scared at the time, so sped off at top speed down the wrong way of a one-way street.

clanton

Chris whilst I sympathise with your anger what you did is not only illegal its just plain wrong. Responding that way was OTT and does other cyclists no favours at all.

always_tyred

I don't think it will be possible to prevent the chorus of disapproval from people with perfect anger management skills.... I've done similar things in the past - I deliberately ran into the back of someone once who had tried to run me into parked cars and was then trying to brake test me. i.e. I "failed" the test. It dented his pride and joy. I don't think I'd be as hot headed now, but at the time I had a vast amount of natural stimulant in my blood stream because someone was trying to injure me with their vehicle. It happens.

I saw a brilliant take on "passive road rage" the other day. A driver was utterly cut up by a minicab driver. As he re-passed him as traffic queued up at the next lights, I saw him wind down his window and I expected to hear shouting/see people getting out etc. Instead, the driver simply produced his camera phone and calmly took a photo of the cab (about 6 feet from it) and drove off without a word.

Priceless. Even if you don't do anything with the photo.

As soon as helmet cameras are small enough, I'm getting one!!

spen666

pst88 wrote:

As far as I know shouting at someone is not a crime. You'd be best to either ignore them, or shout back with appropriate gestures depending on how mature you're feeling.

Could be a s5 public order act offence -


"On ********** at *********used threatening abusive or insulting words or behaviour or disorderly behaviour within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby"

clanton

Always Tyred wrote:

I don't think it will be possible to prevent the chorus of disapproval from people with perfect anger management skills.... I've done similar things in the past - I deliberately ran into the back of someone once who had tried to run me into parked cars and was then trying to brake test me. i.e. I "failed" the test. It dented his pride and joy. I don't think I'd be as hot headed now, but at the time I had a vast amount of natural stimulant in my blood stream because someone was trying to injure me with their vehicle. It happens.

I'm not claiming to have perfect anger management skills. However Chris says he is now pleased with himself and this is something he needs to think about. Also there is a distinction between shouting at someone (albeit with the intention of startling them) and runnong them off the road.

bradshaw_chris

clanton wrote:

Chris whilst I sympathise with your anger what you did is not only illegal its just plain wrong. Responding that way was OTT and does other cyclists no favours at all.

I'd might say it was wrong if I meant to do it, but I hadn't. And in any case, on a whole scale of "wrong vs right" this is pretty central. I don't suppose breaking a wing mirror off a car full of idiot 18yr old chavs is likely to reflect badly on cyclists - I imagine most of the people watching would side with me. Bear in mind that the fright they caused was so severe that I almost fell off my bike in a busy street - I could have died.

clanton

What they did was wrong. What you did was equally wrong. And they will now no doubt behave even more badly towards the next cyclist they come across.

batch78

Clanton I think your assuming too much, admittedly its wrong to damage someones property, but I'd have loved to see their faces! They may well now be too scared to mess with cyclists incase we're all on the verge of tearing their car apart with our bare hands, I'd imagine the 'hardest' thing they'd ever done was crush a fag packet

bradshaw_chris

clanton wrote:

What they did was wrong. What you did was equally wrong. And they will now no doubt behave even more badly towards the next cyclist they come across.

I'm happy with what I did - I stood up for myself. I consider it a natural trait for the male of the species to stand up for themselves when wronged. If you're happy to let people get away with these sort of things then that's your lookout. I love a good debate, but I see we're not going to agree on this one.

Over and out.

CyclingBantam

clanton wrote:

What they did was wrong. What you did was equally wrong. And they will now no doubt behave even more badly towards the next cyclist they come across.

Not that damaging peoples property is right but are we not getting a spot PC here? They shouted at him which could very easily have caused an accident which, depending on speed would have resulted in broken bones at best and death at worst.

He snapped a wing mirror off, by accident. Those two things are not comparable. Maybe this reaction will stop them doing it again next time. If it were a middleaged lady that had done the same/something simular a differient course of action may have been more appropriate.

I can't think he could have done anything more appropiate.

Clever Pun

clanton wrote:

What they did was wrong. What you did was equally wrong. And they will now no doubt behave even more badly towards the next cyclist they come across.

I doubt the driver will as it would have cost him money to sort that out

what Chris did was wrong, but I suspect there will be one chav leaving cyclists alone for a bit.

If I was in the same situation I don't know what I would do to be honest, shouting at cretins doesn't work as they just shout back unless you've come up with a cutting put down that makes them look like utter <unts in front of their friends.

johnnyc71

On Monday night the same thing happened to me - overtaken by a private hire taxi - youth leaning (actually whole torso was out of the window) spitting at me. I felt pretty enraged - and would have had a word at the next lights, but they were too farway away. Scummy behaviour winds me up.

saveswalking

All cyclists 'shout' at motorists ( audible or not) at least once a day ... thing is while you are doing that you've lost your 100% concentration on the road .

Saying that the other morning I was shouting " get your f***ing hands on the wheel !! !" to some stupid woman driving out of a McDonalds drive through while attempting to eat a cheeseburger with two hands and stearing with her elbows. The little girl in the passenger seat wasn't too impressed either ... :roll:

sw

Underscore

BenBlyth wrote:

clanton wrote:

What they did was wrong. What you did was equally wrong. And they will now no doubt behave even more badly towards the next cyclist they come across.

Not that damaging peoples property is right but are we not getting a spot PC here? They shouted at him which could very easily have caused an accident which, depending on speed would have resulted in broken bones at best and death at worst.

He snapped a wing mirror off, by accident. Those two things are not comparable. Maybe this reaction will stop them doing it again next time. If it were a middleaged lady that had done the same/something simular a differient course of action may have been more appropriate.

I can't think he could have done anything more appropiate.

That is a tremendously biased post:
- They shouted at Chris => he could have died
- Chris hit their wing mirror, which snapped off => it was accidental

The kids shouting was one of those things that kids do - stupid and thoughtless; Chris's response was excessive - due to the adrenalin or the poor state of repair of the car rather than by intent. I suspect that neither will do it again (or at least for some time) which is not an altogether negative result.

_

tonywar

Being abused whilst riding seems to be the norm theses days. Cars blowing their horns as they pass, people hurling abuse and other things at you. It seems to be some kind of sport. Even young children seem to be a part of this scene these days. But they are the ones who have the problem, they abuse you from moving vehicles because thay are confident that you can't catch them. When the chav had to stop at the traffic lights I am sure that he was very much aware that you were catching him up and I am sure he was looking intently in his mirror praying for the lights to change, even if he wouldn't admit it. You were a stranger to him and he would have known you were going to be angry and he wouldn't know if he wasn't going to get a punch on the nose for his trouble. Overall us cyclists are a pretty passive bunch, but we are fit. The chav was obviously a bit of a moron, but he would have to be utterly devoid of intelligence not to expect some form of retaliation. Justice served I say.

johnnyc71

tonywar wrote:

Being abused whilst riding seems to be the norm theses days.

You're not wrong! Last Saturday cycling along - pass a group of 5 or 6 lads - I hear some jeering, no big deal, it's the glass bottle flying at me I took exception to! Luckily it missed - it didn't even smash - sounded like thick glass!

I didn't fancy discussing the finer points of being a good citizen, or getting battered trying.

What can you do but cycle on and put it behind you?

I do think that this type of behaviour should be challenged, if there are no consequences then it will continue to happen. But does that mean I have to become a cycling vigilante? (And I didn't fancy challenging a gang, especially wearing my cycling shoes!)

always_tyred

Not as disapproving as I thought....

.. I agree that ripping off wing mirrors with gay abandon isn't a good idea, but I've just got rid of an old Ford and it might not have needed too much encouragement to fall off.....

But look, sometimes it just gets to you. We are only human and incident after incident builds up and sometimes you let rip on someone who merits a mere insult. Happened to me the other morning, I indicated right, let the closest traffic past then moved out slowly and this dippy driver came from way back (this all took place over maybe 10 seconds, which I think is plenty of time to avoid a bright yellow obstacle) and came right on through. I ended up on the wrong side of the road and missed my turn. When I caught her up she was instantly mortified and apologised profisely. But I still exploded when she said "I was as shocked as you were", pointing out that it was more than my insurance premium at stake, blah, blah.

She didn't need me to tell her all of that, it was a mistake and she already knew it. I should have saved the rant for someone else.

Same with the wing mirror, I suspect.

carbonfool

Top marks to reacting I would like to say, generally we are the underdogs of the road. Unless the bullies and bad drivers of the road understand that there can be consequences from their actions they will carry on regardless; possibly they don't even know how much they are being idiots / dangerous.

krushgroove

wow this thread went in a direction I wasn't expecting

It's good to stand up for yourself, but I don't think the driver of the Fezza with the missing wing mirror would agree that bits of his car coming off was an accident, especially after what was said to him. That said...wouldn't we all like to do that sometimes? People react in the heat of the moment, that's all I can say about that, and the driver of the Fiesta may very well have traffic tickets or previous run-ins with the law, who knows. Very few people have the patience of a saint when they're driving or nearly sideswiped by a car as they bike along...


Anyway, back to the first post and referencing a recent thread about a couple of bus drivers that nearly clipped some cyclists, is the best thing to do usually to note the reg plate and make a complaint? In my backpack I carry a pen and usually something to write on, and IMO an irate bus or taxi driver should be reported as they are not only in a potentially deadly vehicle but also transporting other unsuspecting members of the public...so just wondering

BigDutch

I've lost count of the number of close calls I've had on UK roads in the past. The only place in the UK I've ever had real problems though was Plymouth. I've cycled in London, Glasgow, Sheffield, Brum.. all over the place but there seems to be a special kind of stupidity down there.

I've had bus drivers deliberately try to knock me off (and on more than one occasion, attempt to crush me against other vehicles), I've had stuff thrown from cars as they pass, I've had drivers that were convinced they could turn the corner through my bike. I even had one deliberatelytry to open his door onto me (I know he did it on purpose because I could see him watching me in the mirror as I approached).

In more than 25 years of cycling I've deliberately damaged 3 cars. Every single one of them deserved it and could very well have killed me with their driving. Criminal damage is not something I would ever condone but when the law clearly states that you are allowed to take 'appropriate action' using 'reasonable force' in self defence I am confident that my actions would stand up in court and I'd do it all again (and probably more) if I had to.

rustychisel

For God's SAKE... you apologist wimps, get it right.

He over-reacted, and admitted as such, in the heat of the moment. He stood up for himself, good for him. They initiated the bullying behaviour by considering him 'underdog of the road'. They have already shown what sort of people they are, no kow-towing or bleeting from you is going to make any difference. He reacted. Stop prattling on about 'the next cyclist they encounter', that was going to happen anyway from what has been explained here, so stand up for him and stand up for yourself.

NWLondoner

Bodman wrote:

On my commute this morning I was overtaken by a taxi, as it past me two young adults hung out of the window and shouted at me, no idea what was said but it scared me half to death. Fortunately about half a mile later the taxi was caught in traffic so I was able to note the details. The occupants saw me again and started laughing.
They probably thought what they were doing was funny, I didn't.

I have reported the incident to the taxi firm, who assured me that they would investigate and talk to the driver. I'm happy for this to happen, but wonder what laws if any may have been broken and who else I could report this to and if I did what would they be able to do.
I have no intention of progressing this further, as I've clamed down and feel the fact that I have reported it may be enough.

Any comments / views?

Where did this happen?

If it was a licensed taxi i.e Black Cab or a licensed London cab then the company should take action. The cab driver is partly responsible for the behaviour of his passengers. If they are hanging out of the window through the journey and shouting at people he should pull over and give them 2 options. Shut up or walk!!

Bodman

It was a licensed cab, outside London in Kent. The taxi firm said they would investigate and were quite sympathetic. The occupants were apparently disfunctional school kids on the school run, and I was told that if the driver was having trouble controlling them they would go to the local authority and ask for a chaperone. (not convinced this would happen). I was pleased that it was recognised as a problem and that there was a way to deal with it. Whether they will or won't I'll find out the next time they pass me!.

Had they done something physical, i.e. thrown something or spat at me, I would have reported it to the police and the cab firm.

NWLondoner

at least it sounds like they are taking it seriously

always_tyred

krushgroove wrote:

wow this thread went in a direction I wasn't expecting

Anyway, back to the first post and referencing a recent thread about a couple of bus drivers that nearly clipped some cyclists, is the best thing to do usually to note the reg plate and make a complaint? In my backpack I carry a pen and usually something to write on, and IMO an irate bus or taxi driver should be reported as they are not only in a potentially deadly vehicle but also transporting other unsuspecting members of the public...so just wondering

Yes, report them. The bus company is obliged to conduct an investigation. At the very least, therefore, the bus driver has a bad day and cyclists might then be regarded as slightly too much trouble to bully.

I also discovered recently that some busses have cockpit cameras for the driver's safety. Therefore, don't be afraid to politely ask why they just tried to kill you. The chances are that they will loose their rag again. No matter what you might have done, if they are filmed pointing and abusing you, they have committed a breach of conduct. Also, don't be afraid to hammer the shit out of the side of the bus if its too close. It maximises the chance that someone else will complain.

You need the bus number - usually written somewhere near the passender door and usually 3 digits - and the route number and approximate time.

I take a VERY dim view of professional drivers driving unprofessionally and I have done this on several occasions. I've also been buzzed by an articulated lorry for "being there" and I reported him. Sadly for them, most professional drivers drive vehicles with their employer's name on them. Telling a driver this usually winds them up - I take this to mean that they know its going to be a hassle if you go through with the threat to report them. (This might be wishful thinking) I hope, therefore, that it acts like a "yellow card" at least for the day.