Stricken rider on the side of the road

GFowler22

Last night I went out for a blast on my mountain bike, bit of road and bit of off-road. Coming back on a road section I got massive cramp, skidded to a halt fell off and screamed in agony. A road rider went passed and didn't even bat an eyelid, whoever you are - thanks very much!

Shadowduck

There's some lovely people about, isn't there? :roll:

Hope you're ok now!

spen666

GFowler22 wrote:

Last night I went out for a blast on my mountain bike, bit of road and bit of off-road. Coming back on a road section I got massive cramp, skidded to a halt fell off and screamed in agony. A road rider went passed and didn't even bat an eyelid, whoever you are - thanks very much!

What about motorists and pedestrians did any of them pass you ?

If so, then why single out someone on a bike for your sarcasm/contempt/whatever emotion you were using?

Shadowduck

spen666 wrote:

If so, then why single out someone on a bike for your sarcasm/contempt/whatever emotion you were using?

Because you'd expect a little more sympathy from a fellow cyclist than a passing motorist or pedestrian. In general, cyclists help cyclists - obviously this guy had something more important to do.

Unfortunately, every group of people has it's share of self-important twunts.

spen666

Shadowduck wrote:

spen666 wrote:

If so, then why single out someone on a bike for your sarcasm/contempt/whatever emotion you were using?

Because you'd expect a little more sympathy from a fellow cyclist than a passing motorist or pedestrian. In general, cyclists help cyclists - obviously this guy had something more important to do.

Unfortunately, every group of people has it's share of self-important twunts.

Just because someone is on a bike gives you no right to expect any more attention/sympathy etc from them as from any other person.

simply because I use a bike doesn't mean I have any more obligation to you than anyone else does

That said, it is a sad show when no-one gives any help

HarryB

The opposite happened to me last night. Bad gear change from big ring to small ring, chain came off, jammed and I went arse over tit. I hurt my wrist and badly cut both knees. A guy on a blue Specialized rad bike stopped to see if I was OK. Fortunately I was but it could have been much worse. £100 Assos shorts were fine £160 Assos jacket also fine. Unfortunately £4k Pinarello Prince now has a big chunk of paint missing on the bottom bracket and a scratch on one of the seat stays. Bastard.

Could have been lots worse though.

Shadowduck

spen666 wrote:

simply because I use a bike doesn't mean I have any more obligation to you than anyone else does

Of course not. Just as i have no obligation to help a granny I see being mugged, offer my seat to a pregnant woman or hold the door rather than letting it slam in your face.

It just makes the world a nicer place. For me that's reason enough.

z000m

maybe the roadrider wasnt qualified in first aid

Cunobelin

Or perhaps simply assessed the situation?

Rider with cramp - can i help?

No - so what is the point?

Shadowduck

Was that the sound of some ranks closing I just heard?

Fair enough, it's hardly a hanging offence and he may have had other things on his mind but a simple "You alright?" was all it needed. Even if he wasn't qualified in first aid he could have called for help if required.

Out of interest; if you see an unaccompanied cyclist skid to a halt, fall off and start screaming in agony how do you diagnose it as cramp in the couple of seconds available as you ride past without batting an eyelid?

penugent

A couple of weeks ago I was struggling at the roadside with a mechanical problem and a fellow cyclist went by with a fixed stare straight ahead - not a word. I thought it was poor form as it was a quiet country road in the middle of nowhere. I was fortunate enough to be able to summon the Mrs on my mobile.

I did think, ah well it takes all sorts. What took me to the fair was that the next time I saw the same guy in the same area he had the cheek to give me the 'cheery fellow cyclist wave'. Tosser!!

squired

The best thing in these situations is when they do the stare - they look straight ahead into the distance, so that it looks like they simply didn't see you. It is best seen when walking across a zebra crossing. Car driver approaches, sees you, so then does the stare to make it look like he hasn't (and thus that is why he is driving across the crossing).

It doesn't matter whether it is a cyclist at the side of the road, someone trying to push start a car, a person struggling to find somewhere (with map in hand), or whatever. In a community the people need to look out for each other. Instead we are all just a bunch of people living in the same place.

NWLondoner

Personally i think it is a poor show that he didn't even ask if you were ok.

It's bad enough being the targets of car/van/lorry and bus drivers bad driving/anger most of the time, so if fellow cyclists won't even help each other we are truly f*cked.

GFowler22

Yeah it was slightly annoying, but in hindsight he probably could have helped bend my foot back to mobilise my calf. It locked completely solid, does anyone have any idea why this was? Is it a muscle in balance? Lactic acid build up? I wasn't pushing hard, but it was a warmer day than usual, so maybe I overheated and didn't take on enough water.

spen666

Shadowduck wrote:

spen666 wrote:

simply because I use a bike doesn't mean I have any more obligation to you than anyone else does

Of course not. Just as i have no obligation to help a granny I see being mugged, offer my seat to a pregnant woman or hold the door rather than letting it slam in your face.

It just makes the world a nicer place. For me that's reason enough.

I agree it does make the world a nicer place, but it gives you no right to berate someone from one particular subgroup for not doing something that no one else did either

Shadowduck

spen666 wrote:

Shadowduck wrote:

spen666 wrote:

simply because I use a bike doesn't mean I have any more obligation to you than anyone else does

Of course not. Just as i have no obligation to help a granny I see being mugged, offer my seat to a pregnant woman or hold the door rather than letting it slam in your face.

It just makes the world a nicer place. For me that's reason enough.

I agree it does make the world a nicer place, but it gives you no right to berate someone from one particular subgroup for not doing something that no one else did either

*sigh* :roll:

cyclingfury

If you were an attractive young lady I would have stopped, but I bet you are one very ugly man, so you've no chance.

z000m

i would stop if he was an ugly man with an attractive sister

Lagavulin

Shadowduck wrote:

spen666 wrote:

Shadowduck wrote:

spen666 wrote:

simply because I use a bike doesn't mean I have any more obligation to you than anyone else does

Of course not. Just as i have no obligation to help a granny I see being mugged, offer my seat to a pregnant woman or hold the door rather than letting it slam in your face.

It just makes the world a nicer place. For me that's reason enough.

I agree it does make the world a nicer place, but it gives you no right to berate someone from one particular subgroup for not doing something that no one else did either

*sigh* :roll:

Huh, good luck on trying to convince Spen666 that there could or should exist any sense of camaraderie between fellow cyclists.

I'm quite anti-social in the sense that I can barely stomach a metro or bus journey without my iPod but I'll stop if I see an upturned bike or a cyclist in distress.

Having said that I agree with him in that it shouldn't be only other cyclists that should feel inclined to stop when they witness a cyclist come to grief.

Having punctured little more than a mile from home (last summer) I decided to walk it rather than repair it at the roadside. On my short walk home I was passed by several roadies who I got a nod of the head from or a wave. It was only a mountain biker who stopped to enquire if he could be of any assistance. Takes allsorts.

top_bhoy

If I had problems with my bike and wanted help from a passing cyclist (or car driver for that matter), I'd simply stop and wave my arms to signal that I was wanting asistance. I'd like to think that people would stop - in 99% of cases, I'm sure they would.

The onus is surely on the person requiring assistance to make that known to people passing - of course, a body with a bike on top, lying at the side of the road is a different proposition.

Shadowduck

Lagavulin wrote:

Having said that I agree with him in that it shouldn't be only other cyclists that should feel inclined to stop when they witness a cyclist come to grief.

Agreed, it shouldn't be, in a perfect world, and so on... But as someone else said - if we can't rely on fellow cyclists for help, what hope have we from anyone else?

In a perfect world, this thread wouldn't exist.

spen666

Shadowduck wrote:

Lagavulin wrote:

Having said that I agree with him in that it shouldn't be only other cyclists that should feel inclined to stop when they witness a cyclist come to grief.

Agreed, it shouldn't be, in a perfect world, and so on... But as someone else said - if we can't rely on fellow cyclists for help, what hope have we from anyone else?

In a perfect world, this thread wouldn't exist.

I may ride a bike, you may ride a bike, but so what?

Human instinct is to help- well mine is, but if I choose not to help, then that is my decision and is not any worse because you also ride a bike.

What about the motorist who had a blue top on like you did- should he be berated because you wear similar colour tops?

GFowler22

Ok I think we can all agree to disagree here! Next time I'll make sure I'm properly warmed up and drink enough water so I don't cramp up!

always_tyred

Do you use clip ins? You can get a pretty good calf-hamstring stretch by putting the pedals flat with stricken leg forward, putting some weight on the heel (obviously with enough weight over the back foot to keep the pedals level).

And all while not stopping :P

---

ColinJ

Top_Bhoy wrote:

If I had problems with my bike and wanted help from a passing cyclist (or car driver for that matter), I'd simply stop and wave my arms to signal that I was wanting asistance. I'd like to think that people would stop - in 99% of cases, I'm sure they would.

I was out mountain biking a few years back and I saw a young lad (about 10 years old) with a mechanical problem with his MTB so I stopped to see if I could help. I discovered that one of his jockey wheels had fallen off so I walked back along the bridleway a few yards and managed to find the missing bits. Unfortunately, I didn't have any allen keys on me. Suddenly I spotted some other riders coming towards us. I tried asking the first rider if we could borrow some tools but he just blasted past without even looking up. The other two riders definitely saw what was going on. I moved into the centre of the bridleway to slow them down but they just accelerated and went either side of me, nearly running over the lad's bike in the process - bastards :evil: ! I asked the boy if he would be okay. He was a bit upset because he had a two mile walk home.

I must have managed to find 3 people who just happened to be in the selfish 1% of the population. My personal view is that the figure is much higher than that...

always_tyred

ColinJ wrote:

Top_Bhoy wrote:

If I had problems with my bike and wanted help from a passing cyclist (or car driver for that matter), I'd simply stop and wave my arms to signal that I was wanting asistance. I'd like to think that people would stop - in 99% of cases, I'm sure they would.

I was out mountain biking a few years back and I saw a young lad (about 10 years old) with a mechanical problem with his MTB so I stopped to see if I could help. I discovered that one of his jockey wheels had fallen off so I walked back along the bridleway a few yards and managed to find the missing bits. Unfortunately, I didn't have any allen keys on me. Suddenly I spotted some other riders coming towards us. I tried asking the first rider if we could borrow some tools but he just blasted past without even looking up. The other two riders definitely saw what was going on. I moved into the centre of the bridleway to slow them down but they just accelerated and went either side of me, nearly running over the lad's bike in the process - bastards :evil: ! I asked the boy if he would be okay. He was a bit upset because he had a two mile walk home.

I must have managed to find 3 people who just happened to be in the selfish 1% of the population. My personal view is that the figure is much higher than that...

The cycling community is the one in which its acceptable on a "group" ride to leave someone to walk home alone in the rain if they flat.

Not all group rides, of course, but I have seen this happen and felt awfully complicit.

I've also been "dropped" by being foolish enough not to run red lights and/or launch like a lemming out of a junction and the same "group" didn't wait to "re-group". Thanks for that. You must be faster and thus better than me then.

There is that element of "don't get in the way of my vitally important olympic standard training" and/or "let play professional cyclists" that overtakes aparrently perfectly reasonable people in such situations.

I detest it. The same element doesn't wave when they see someone waving at them because they are taking their training very seriously.

Siechotic

I've also been "dropped" by being foolish enough not to run red lights and/or launch like a lemming out of a junction and the same "group" didn't wait to "re-group". Thanks for that. You must be faster and thus better than me then.

There is that element of "don't get in the way of my vitally important olympic standard training" and/or "let play professional cyclists" that overtakes aparrently perfectly reasonable people in such situations.

This happened to me last week.

I was out for the first time with a new group, never met them before, but had had several emails between me and the so called leader who had assured me that no-one is ever dropped for any reason.

Met up with the group at 8:30am, who all seemed in a welcoming/receptive mood for new riders. We started off riding at 17-20mph for the first 20 or so minutes, all was well until the leader glanced back and sprinted off.

The rest of the group followed (including me) until I realised that the lights at the upcoming junction were red.

I instinctivally started to brake, and was slightly dismayed to see the rest of the group barrel on through the junction.

I stopped at the line and waited for the lights to change which took maybe another 40 seconds, during which time not one of the group looked back to see if I (the new lad) had followed and negotiated the red light junction safely.

I decided that I wasn't going to bust my legs trying to catch up with a group who had no regard for their own safety or that of anybody else.

So much for not dropping anybody for any reason, perhaps it's just me not following the group rule but I think my safety is more important than jumping red lights just to keep up a good pace.

always_tyred

Siechotic wrote:

I've also been "dropped" by being foolish enough not to run red lights and/or launch like a lemming out of a junction and the same "group" didn't wait to "re-group". Thanks for that. You must be faster and thus better than me then.

There is that element of "don't get in the way of my vitally important olympic standard training" and/or "let play professional cyclists" that overtakes aparrently perfectly reasonable people in such situations.

This happened to me last week.

I was out for the first time with a new group, never met them before, but had had several emails between me and the so called leader who had assured me that no-one is ever dropped for any reason.

Met up with the group at 8:30am, who all seemed in a welcoming/receptive mood for new riders. We started off riding at 17-20mph for the first 20 or so minutes, all was well until the leader glanced back and sprinted off.

The rest of the group followed (including me) until I realised that the lights at the upcoming junction were red.

I instinctivally started to brake, and was slightly dismayed to see the rest of the group barrel on through the junction.

I stopped at the line and waited for the lights to change which took maybe another 40 seconds, during which time not one of the group looked back to see if I (the new lad) had followed and negotiated the red light junction safely.

I decided that I wasn't going to bust my legs trying to catch up with a group who had no regard for their own safety or that of anybody else.

So much for not dropping anybody for any reason, perhaps it's just me not following the group rule but I think my safety is more important than jumping red lights just to keep up a good pace.

Sadly yours is a common experience. Name and shame?

The collective abdication of responsibility on group rides has pretty much lead me to abandon them. The people on the rides do not, I imagine, wander all over the road, ignore lights, give ways and otherwise act as though they are on closed roads when riding alone, yet this is exactly what happens beyond a certain group size. I actually feel less safe that when I'm alone becuase I know that there are a lot more irritated motorists nearby than normal.

Last year, I overheard some of our secretaries having a moan about a group of cyclists holding them up for "15 minutes". I instinctively took the contrary view until I learned that (a) I knew the group ride in question (b) I'd been on it and been completely unsuccessful in getting anyone to recognise the phrase "car back" and (c) from where they lived to where they were going would take about 15 minutes along roads that, yes, they could well have been held up on.

I was rather ashamed. I put a message on the club forum asking about etiquete and how many abreast we should ride, and was told that 2 abreast is all that is permitted by law, which is why they always pace line.

I took this to mean that one or other of the three wise monkeys had replied.

Swannie

Re: rider on side of the road.

If you look like you are in trouble, I'll ask if you are OK. (I.E. not standing up, looking a bit lost).

If you look like you have everything in hand, I'll make pointed eye contact, if I can. Its up to you to then tell me otherwise - or I'm riding past.

Usually if there are two of you, and you aren't looking out for another cyclist, I'm assuming nothing is wrong, and I'll ride past.

If you have a map out, and you are in my area, I'll probably be staring at you, waiting for eye contact to ask "Are you OK there? Need any help?". If you are engrossed in your map, I assume everything is fine.

If you shout, "Excuse me!" after me, if you don't look pissed off when I look over my shoulder, I'll turn around and come back. If you look angry... I'll probably size you up, and if I'd feel unsafe I'm not stopping.

Denny69

Fair play Swannie, personally I'll slow down a little and assess the situation, and on approach will ask if everything is ok even if your head is buried in a map it then gives you time to ask for assistance if needed.

I'll use GFowler22's situation as an example.

If I had seen or come across a rider who had fallen off for no reason (or just lying on the ground), in pain, then the first thing in my mind would be coronary, as in this example it turned out to be just cramp then I would still offer some assistance as I'm sure we all know that cramp can be a total T*AT and trying to straighten the afflicted limb can be difficult.

So GFowler22 I would've stopped to help, even if I was in my car as it's in my nature Kharma being the thing it is.

Like some people have already said in this post even an acknowledgment and a "You okay?" goes a long way. We, as cyclists, have a bad enough time as it is from the non cycling public/car drivers etc etc. Do we all not think that, regardless of what style we ride MTB or Road, we are all one and the same and need to look out for our fellow riders? I'm sure if it was you in the same position you would appreciate it.....I know I have at times when I've had a problem!

Denny69

Fair play Swannie, personally I'll slow down a little and assess the situation, and on approach will ask if everything is ok even if your head is buried in a map it then gives you time to ask for assistance if needed.

I'll use GFowler22's situation as an example.

If I had seen or come across a rider who had fallen off for no reason (or just lying on the ground), in pain, then the first thing in my mind would be coronary, as in this example it turned out to be just cramp then I would still offer some assistance as I'm sure we all know that cramp can be a total T*AT and trying to straighten the afflicted limb can be difficult.

So GFowler22 I would've stopped to help, even if I was in my car as it's in my nature Kharma being the thing it is.

Like some people have already said in this post even an acknowledgment and a "You okay?" goes a long way. We, as cyclists, have a bad enough time as it is from the non cycling public/car drivers etc etc. Do we all not think that, regardless of what style we ride MTB or Road, we are all one and the same and need to look out for our fellow riders? I'm sure if it was you in the same position you would appreciate it.....I know I have at times when I've had a problem!