Listen To This shoot...

jusgray

Ok being a newbie i was a bit confused about riding to work on dual carrigeways so thought i know who can give me a definate answer ... a traffic cop.

So I phoned our local station and they put me through to a traffic cop, i explained my worries and this was his reply ...

I`m allowed to ride on any dual carrigeway as long as i stay close to the kerb and do not stop the flow of traffic :shock: i then said i would rather take up a whole lane then do that and his reply was most police officers would pull me over and explain to me the rules of commuting.

By the sounds of this traffic cop if i got pulled by him i would probably be in jail. He also said under no circumstances am i allowed to ride on the paths even for my own safety because its against the law.

Well stuff the law as my safety will come first .. is this guy speaking sh it?

Cunobelin

Yes and no...

Google Daniel Cadden's case last year.

attica

Hey Jusgray

Does the dual carrigeway have a hard shoulder?
Actually I'm not sure I'd even consider it then.
Oh crikey, I've just noticed yout location, please say you're not considering venturing out onto the Coventry ring road, I used to actively avoid that when I lived there and used a car.

I think the copper might have a point though. If you ride in the primary with lots of fast traffic around you you're going to be causing lots of lane changing and general mayhem, I don't think that's a good idea, legal or not.

If there's a hard shoulder you could feasbly ride in that, but I'd still be nervous, if you break down in a car they tell you to wait in your car or on the other side of the crash barrier!

My advice - find a different route that's quieter, you might just be able to hear yourself think then too!

jusgray

Hello mate, no it dont have a hard should, i dont know if you know it but its the london road and busy as hell.

I think i might give http://www.mapmyride.com a go to see what other routes are available.

After getting another 3 points on my license ( doing 35 in a 30) i cant afford a £30 fine for riding the paths.

Cheers anyway

Alibran

I ride along a short stretch of dual carriageway on my commute home because it means I can do 2 left turns at busy roundabouts instead of having to cross them. There's about 2 feet of space to the left of the "edge of carriageway" line that I've seen other cyclists riding in, but I always ride in the left hand lane, around where the cars usually have their nearside wheels. I figure this makes me safer as the cars have to slow down and go round me rather than passing close at speed. It is a 50mph limit, going into 30mph, though, so they shouldn't be travelling particularly fast.

graeme_s-2

jusgray wrote:

Hello mate, no it dont have a hard should, i dont know if you know it but its the london road and busy as hell.

I think i might give http://www.mapmyride.com a go to see what other routes are available.

After getting another 3 points on my license ( doing 35 in a 30) i cant afford a £30 fine for riding the paths.

Cheers anyway

I'd be tempted to just ride along the London road in the secondary position. Depends how busy it was I suppose. You can probably find an alternative route to wherever you're going.

London Rd was closed from junction 4 of the ring road when I came home last night. It was mayhem, I filtered pretty much the whole length of Gulson Rd as it was practically gridlocked.

BentMikey

I would recommend buying Cyclecraft by John Franklin. It did my riding a world of good.

A - W

Riding on a dual carriageway?

What speed limit/restriction?

Anonymous

I wonder how you would feel if the motorists chucked the law, as you think you should do.

jusgray

bikers46 wrote:

I wonder how you would feel if the motorists chucked the law, as you think you should do.

What a good response, why bother even typing it :roll:

Anonymous

Let's don't start this sh!t again. Give it a break, really. We all have our opinions.

Kafka\'s Doll

bikers46 wrote:

I wonder how you would feel if the motorists chucked the law, as you think you should do.

What law is he breaking?

jusgray

Kafka\'s Doll wrote:

bikers46 wrote:

I wonder how you would feel if the motorists chucked the law, as you think you should do.

What law is he breaking?

The law i would be breaking is riding on a path to avoid a dual carrige way :roll:

Bikers46 if you dont want to start sh!t why do you post on someones elses post with a stupid opinion like yours, you`d be better of keeping it to yourself.

Im soon to be a criminal :roll:

Anonymous

I didn't say 'break,' I said 'chuck.'

The OP,"Well stuff the law as my safety will come first .. is this guy speaking sh it?"

I 'commented,' the same as everyone else.
Let's not start this again, OK?

Kafka\'s Doll

bikers46 wrote:

I didn't say 'break,' I said 'chuck.'

The OP,"Well stuff the law as my safety will come first .. is this guy speaking sh it?"

I 'commented,' the same as everyone else.
Let's not start this again, OK?

Okay, what law is he chucking?

Anonymous

'No idea. Apparently all. "The law" was the OP.

cee

I think that what the law says is legal and what is safe are sometimes in conflict.

Having said that, round this way, I can't think of a place where I would feel safer riding on the path, and where there is not already a shared-use path.

As far as riding on dual carriage-ways goes, sometimes there is a sign for No Horsedrawn or pedal powered vehicles.....clearly, don't go on those!

I think the police chap you spoke to might have a point about holding up the traffic due to holding an entire lane so a significant period of time. (Don't quote me!!)

jusgray

lol @ biker person :roll:

must be a sad life you live to want to comment negative posts on other peoples posts and then say lets not start this again.

people like you kill forums :roll:

please keep of this and my future posts as i cant stand negative people.

Anonymous

jusgray wrote:

lol @ biker person :roll:

must be a sad life you live to want to comment negative posts on other peoples posts and then say lets not start this again.

people like you kill forums :roll:

please keep of this and my future posts as i cant stand negative people.

Not a problem. Honestly, most of what shows up on these boards seems to be a complaint about something. Good thing there's someone like you to keep it all sussed. Thank you for your assessment.

Swannie

No offence intended to individual police officers, but knowing _all_ of the laws isn't their job.

Knowing when someone is or has broken a law, and presenting that evidence, is. It is then down to the accused to accept this proof, or prove otherwise to a legal professional.

Riding in primary on a dual carriageway has been tested in the UK courts, and is legal in the circumstances of that case. If the Police brought charges against you, then it would be down to you or your legal representative to prove your case is the same as the one mentioned above. However, the police should not bring charges if they are aware of this case!

Personally, if it was quiet, I'd be in primary. If it was busy I'd ride in secondary until approaching a junction. The hard shoulder on most roads is full of crap. I would only ride in it on uphill sections, where my speed would pose issues to HGVs (consequentially they would endanger my safety).

Cunobelin

My original post seems to have been missed, but is animportant contribution.

Danial Cadden is a cyclist who was arrested in Telford fo riding on a dual carriageway. The Judge stated that he should have been on an adjacent cycleway, despite it would have meant crossing all four lanes to get to it.

With support of the CTC the right to appeal was gained and the case overturned, but the decision making process from the Police arresting to the original and appeal judges make interesting reading.

always_tyred

Cunobelin wrote:

My original post seems to have been missed, but is animportant contribution.

Danial Cadden is a cyclist who was arrested in Telford fo riding on a dual carriageway. The Judge stated that he should have been on an adjacent cycleway, despite it would have meant crossing all four lanes to get to it.

With support of the CTC the right to appeal was gained and the case overturned, but the decision making process from the Police arresting to the original and appeal judges make interesting reading.

Its too depressing to think about.

Part of the problem is that the "system" to avoid the nonsense in the first place requires appealing to the pillock who started it, ie. PC Plod who doesn't like anyone, let alone cyclists. By the time some dusty proclaimation comes from Judge Arbitrary Rant, its way too late for sense to prevail.

I was once pulled over and fined on the motorway with a single scull on the roof. The law has a specific exemption to the allowable overhang legislation for these and the rowing governing bodies help you out by publishing them on their website. Armed with all of this information, PC Numpty still gave me a ticket (I could tell he didn't know that exemption, because he asked me what the object on my roof was - was it some sort of boat?). My only option was to write to the same PC Numpty, tell him the same thing, be ignored because he doesn't like loosing face, and then go to court, 300 miles from where I live.

This sounds extremely dismissive, but its just borne of frustration. If you pop up on the radar for any reason, you aren't welcome.

I do think that cyclists can help themselves by not asserting their rights to be on particularly dangerous stretches of dual carriageway (for example, I was always baffled by the culture of running and training for time trials on, for example, the A38 in Devon, which is a motorway in all but name). However, a lot of "dual carriageways" are simply glorified arteries into cities and do not fall into this category and safer than a lot of non-dual A roads.

cntl

>>The law i would be breaking is riding on a path to avoid a dual carrige way

You have to disregard the laws that do not make sense. Just because it is The Law, does not mean it is an Absolute.
Someone had to disregard the law forbidding women to vote not that long ago, or challenge the slavery laws.
My response is: if you feel you have the moral higher ground, then do what you think is right.

jusgray

CNTL thanks mate.

The problem is with this biker person poster who seems to think breaking the law by riding a bit of path should result in a prison term I wonder if he is a plodder :roll:

I will break the law anytime I feel my safety is at risk and would not give a sh it who it bothers as I want to get home safe not have my life cut short by riding a dodgy dual carrigway.

Cheers.

djkmtb

I think the biker person (bikers46) just has a serious respect for laws. Maybe even an obsession. Perfect paranoia is perfect awareness. We all know we can vote laws away if we feel threatened by them, or feel that contemporary society has grown out of them. 'biker person' will go away sooner or later.

I believe the case of some laws not presenting a safe situation is absolutely right, and often wonder why they even exist. It seems sometimes that some laws are on the board because ONE individual had to be governed by 'it.'

I lived in the states for most of my life up to almost thirty years old, and the state I come from forbids driving a vehicle without windshield wipers, but there is no law requiring a front windscreen. Who knows? :?:

BentMikey

I think bikers comes from the USA (Leftpondia), where dissing a cop will get you tasered at least 5 times followed by 20 to life.

Gambatte

In the OPs scenario, if stopped for being on the road - quote the cadden case.

If its a 'dangerous' section of road and you're on the pavement, quote Paul Boateng (Home Office MP) and his speech about what to consider & how to issue the fines. (i.e. if the roads dangerous and people are on the pavement 'cos they're scared - lay off!)

djkmtb

BentMikey wrote:

I think bikers comes from the USA (Leftpondia), where dissing a cop will get you tasered at least 5 times followed by 20 to life.

Yeah, everyone has a beef about something. I prefer to keep mine to myself.

Leftpondia cops go a bit overboard in most cases. At least that's what I see on the telly. Personally, I choose not to help them with their training. 8)