25 mile barrier

BUICK

I cycle to and from work most days (between10 and 13 miles depending on how energetic I'm feeling), as well as having generally one fast hour in an evening and a hill session in a week. The problem comes when, once a week on my day off, I go on longer runs out. I vary my route and the distance I'm out for and have been experimenting with varying effort more recently - but seem to hit a real barrier after about 25 miles. I always eat well about an hour or so before I head out (typically a big bowl of porridge with blueberries, banana and a little honey), I drink water when I'm out and have been trying to preempt the 'barrier' by having a snack (such as an elevenses bar or similar) during the ride. I start relatively easy then gradually increase my effort to a moderate/high level after 20 mins or so. I feel GREAT until about the 25 mile limit then quite suddenly seem to start getting sore legs and feeling 'empty' energy wise. I have read on this forum, other people talking about doing 70 miles on a pint of water before they leave the house - so am I just weak (relatively speaking) do you think, or is it more likely that I'm just not fueling up enough for my metabolism? The longest ride I've managed (continuous) was 40 miles and I struggled to manage the last 10 miles - the last 5 were driven purely by the desperation to get home and make it stop!

stevewheel

Hi,

have you considered changing the water for an energy formula drink? The complex carbs before you go out are good but I wonder if they actually have time to start kicking in by your 25 mile mark? An energy formula in the bottle might bridge the gap.

CrookedCucumber

BUICK wrote:

I feel GREAT until about the 25 mile limit then quite suddenly seem to start getting sore legs and feeling 'empty' energy wise. I have read on this forum, other people talking about doing 70 miles on a pint of water before they leave the house - so am I just weak (relatively speaking) do you think, or is it more likely that I'm just not fueling up enough for my metabolism?

If you're actually feeling pain in your legs, rather than just discomfort and fatigue, I would guess that you problem is more likely to be build-up of metabolic by-products (lactic acid, etc) than fueling. If that's the case, there really isn't a magic solution apart from more practice over these sorts of distances and/or a gradual improvement in general cardiovascular fitness.

I would suggest that if the pain is of the `Oh God please let me die!' variety, you might need to relax a bit

feel

How long is the 25 mile taking ? Seems like you are taking on plenty of carbs before you set off, might be worth having another couple of bites of something 25 mins before that "wall" usually kicks in.

Swannie

I had a similar experience when I started running.

When I started I would hit the "wall" after 35mins. I soon found this wall to be lower glucose, I assume a switch to other energy stores. After a while, this increased to 45mins, then an hour. When I was running regularly earlier this year it was up to 1hr+. I can certainly see that I could train up to longer intervals without hitting a mild low blood sugar level.

I've only "bonked" a once running. Very unpleasant. I'd not eaten very well the day before (two meals, not very big), and set off. I hit the wall, and kept going - I was 5miles from home! It didn't help that I had a small injury and was limping. ( :P ) After another 3 miles I was forced to walk/jog. First time I almost bonked on my bike was my longest ride to date. I think I'd done about 23miles when I felt I hit the wall. Then another 5miles later I was struggling to pay attention to the road!

A decent diet at least 24 hours before a "long" exertion, and ready sugar helps. When I have ran 1/2 marathons, I have almost never felt low blood sugar, due to lucozade. I'm going to be putting that in my water bottle on my next longer rides for sure! But it will take 10-15mins (hmm, that number is from memory and seems a little suspect to me) before the sugar will become available to you.

Also it's handy to know that glycogen stores (the sugar stores in your muscles) refresh fastest in 20mins after exercise, and have returned to normal uptake after 2hours.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycogen

(By the way, I'm really skinny, with quite low muscle mass, and low body fat. If I skip a meal sometimes I'll feel like I've hit the wall just walking around :S )

BUICK

Interesting... 2 in favour of better fueling. I'll look into some of the commercial cycling energy drinks. How long the 25 miles has taken varies as the course I take varies. The time before last it took about an hour and a quarter relatively flat, and the most recent took more like an hour and 45 min (hilly and breezy)

I thought that it might be my fitness level, but chatting to someone at the LBS it was his opinion that was unlikely. I'll be working to put in more efforts at this sort of distance as the weather improves and see what happens

feel

2 hours is quite a common time to be running out of energy but if it has been cold and miserable it could be that available energy is becoming an issue for you a bit earlier.

Anonymous

I have something like this, I keep wanting to do over 25 miles but its a struggle in the last mile or so, I dont take water with me I dont know if thats bad I just drink lots before I go, thought about taking a banana with me and a choc bar but I dont have anywere to put it. I was going to do a 25 mile trip to york and back today but I thought maybe I should not without water.

allaction

Hi, why don't you incorporate a 'cake' stop after about 20 miles. You can then have a little rest and some nutrition. Then do another 10 or 15 miles. After doing this for a while try and phase the tea stop out or extend it into your ride. Psychologically this will help you, that's how I started out anyway.

trw999

I'm working up to doing a 350 mile charity ride in late May and following a training schedule. I did 51 miles on Sunday and stopped every hour for a quick fuel up. Every 15 mins I have a couple of gulps from the bottle of grapefruit squash and salt. Then on the stop I have some banana and a bit of muesli bar. It kept me going and I never felt I was bonking on the ride.

Tim
http://timwilkes.blog.co.uk/

timoid.

The more miles you do, the easier it gets. Push yourself to 20 regularly, then 25, 30 etc. Before long you too will be heading out for a 70 on a bottle of water.

Also riding with a group makes it easier. Try joining your local club for weekend runs.

hodsgod

Timoid. wrote:

The more miles you do, the easier it gets. Push yourself to 20 regularly, then 25, 30 etc. Before long you too will be heading out for a 70 on a bottle of water.

Also riding with a group makes it easier. Try joining your local club for weekend runs.

Perfect advice I think.

It's all about putting the miles in. You can drink and eat the all the best etc but if you dont get the miles unfer your belt you wont be able to increase your range.

Club rides will give you encouragement too.

Rich Hcp

Is it in your head?

Demoralised at 25 miles?

I suggest running your cycle computer on time, rather than mileage, it'lll avoid the "Oh no, nearly 25 miles" moment.

The rest of your prep seems ok, so don't worry too much

oldwelshman

Bonking at 25 miles is probably not due to lack of food, especially after what you say you eat before going out.
It is more likely to be due to fitness.
Ride to whatever distance your comfortable with then increase it 10% per week.
Personally for a weekend ride, I have cereal breakfast, take one nergy drink and 2 bananas and thats ok for 80 miles.
For up to 50 I just take a bottle of energy drink.
Some riders drink less, some more.
There was a guy on here once quoted he goes through 12 gels on a sportive in addition to the food at feed stations
I would be sick and skint if I tried that

NWLondoner

I too hit the wall at approx 25 miles.

My legs just go dead with no energy. I do drink SIS PSP fluid as i ride.

I am tall & skinny with not much muscle :oops:

My main problem is due to a restrictive diet i cannot eat while out riding, which does not help.

What are all your thought on "Gels"? Any good compared to food or a pile of s***

topcattim

I agree with all of the above re fuelling and extra training. I also think that a lot of it is down to psychology and mental strength. When I first started audaxing, I used to have a terrible dip at around 60 miles - I didn't change my fuelling or training strategy, but just persevered, and find it ok again now.

BUICK

Thanks all. This has given me a lot to think about and try out. Will report back on progress. Next longer ride I'll aim for just over my 'limit' - about 30 miles, and try an energy drink along the way (have bought Maximuscle Viper to try - no sweeteners and fulfilled some recommendations given in C+). Once I've planned the route I'll ignore the computer and just aim to enjoy the ride. I will plan to increase the distance I'm doing gradually as suggested and get more miles in. I guess because I'm so much fitter than I was a year ago I think I'm FIT! Still got lots of work to do

Stuck on a Giant

I think you might be going at too hard a pace for the distance at this stage.

A slightly different approach could be to try longer, say 3 hour rides, but taking it relatively easy. It gets the body used to producing effort for longer - over time you'll be able to either increase the pace on these longer rides, or cope with much higher intensity for a shorter ride.

graham_g

Stuck on a Giant wrote:

I think you might be going at too hard a pace for the distance at this stage.

A slightly different approach could be to try longer, say 3 hour rides, but taking it relatively easy. It gets the body used to producing effort for longer - over time you'll be able to either increase the pace on these longer rides, or cope with much higher intensity for a shorter ride.

This is what I was going to suggest - chances are you can't keep the same pace as your 10 mile runs to work. It's difficult to break the habit (I only recently started longer leisure rides in addition to my relatively short commute), but vital for longer distances. Try and take it very easy, virtually pootling for the first 30-60 minutes and then build it up to a comfortable pace which you think is sustainable. I shouldn't worry about energy drinks until you're out for well over 2 hours, although it can only help!

BUICK

I have just started experimenting with lowering my pace - but at the same time started seeking out hillier terrain which was probably counterproductive in the circumstances! I've tried to go at a pace that I'm enjoying but with no risk of getting out of puff - I'll try a little slower again and see what happens. It's a real learning curve and I guess this is where developing some 'maturity' as a rider needs to start kicking in. Still - early days - I'm only 33!

James1823

My advice for all those having energy problems is not to drink too much, and definitely don't drink a load of water and set off thinking you won't need to carry any. Little and often is the key (same with food). Also eating a large meal too close to going for a ride will make you feel lacking in energy as all your blood will be going to your stomach and not your legs!

I used to feel the need to take energy drinks but now don't bother unless it's a really long ride (over 50miles). One other thing to consider is are you set up properly on the bike? Do you have any discomfort?

NWLondoner

James1823 wrote:

My advice for all those having energy problems is not to drink too much, and definitely don't drink a load of water and set off thinking you won't need to carry any. Little and often is the key (same with food). Also eating a large meal too close to going for a ride will make you feel lacking in energy as all your blood will be going to your stomach and not your legs!

I used to feel the need to take energy drinks but now don't bother unless it's a really long ride (over 50miles). One other thing to consider is are you set up properly on the bike? Do you have any discomfort?

Thats the thing i feel VERY comfortable in my position. No lower back pain or pain in my wrists.

on the road

BUICK wrote:

How long the 25 miles has taken varies as the course I take varies. The time before last it took about an hour and a quarter relatively flat, and the most recent took more like an hour and 45 min (hilly and breezy)

There is your answer, an hour and a quarter for 25 miles is very fast, works out at 20 mph average speed (assuming you didn't stop). On that basis, the most likely answer is you're trying too hard, I would struggle to keep up with you

Steve_F

Maybe the problem is that you're doing too much at the moment.

I find that if I cycle to work every day, even tho it's a short distance longer rides are much harder. I try to take the day off exercising before heading out on a long ride and have pasta at night leaving a portion for the morning before I head out.

I also find the gels do make a difference, for me anyway, and are fairly handy for an easily carried energy hit.

BUICK

Time to give an update. I did my longest ride yet yesterday at just over 63 miles. It got pretty emotional in the last quarter but overall I handled it better than expected. I took Maximuscle Viper energy drink with me, and drank small amounts often - but ran out on the way home. I used that as a reason to have a break and about 45 miles in I had a cafe stop for food and drink, and bought water to top up my supplies. I kept the pace slower and more relaxed than I have in the past, although there were still moments! On a stretch with a slight downhill and the wind behind me I spent time comfortably doing 30mph, but in retrospect (as good as it felt) that probably wasted some energy I could have used later. I tried to keep my cadence fairly high throughout the day - especially as the route was hilly. Ended up with an average mph just over 15mph, which I know is nothing to brag about, but I was just overjoyed to make it home! I have learned to spend some time stretching my back after longer rides after having problems recently so I'm hoping I've done enough to avoid problems this time.

Oh, and I'll be buying some kind of chamois cream. An unforseen side effect of managing 4 hours in the saddle is that a certain area is feeling pretty raw!