Garmin's worth it?

Felix-da-house-mouse

hi, i'm thinking about spending some cash on getting a garmin (unsure of models or how much yet) thinking of around £250 mark but i was thinking to myself are they really that good? i also snow board so it would be handy for that too. do you have one? what do you make of them and whats the best model to go for for cycling and using in the mountains?

gkerr4

i have an edge 305 - it's awesome

an excellent computer, HRM and training tool - it's not really for navigation though.

they have a new model out - the 705 - which might just be in your budget figure - it does mapping and I think is good for actual navigation purposes too.

Felix-da-house-mouse

gkerr do you put your info after a ride onto your pc and look at it?

CrookedCucumber

The problem I have with Garmin products is that they all seem to be designed _either_ for training _or_ for navigation. There's no reason I can think of why the same unit couldn't do both pretty well -- except, perhaps, that this would hurt Garmin's sales.

In my view, the Forerunner and related products are rubbish for navigation. IIRC they can't even give you a location as a grid reference. let alone road-level navigation. But products with really good mapping really fail as training aids. Generally they don't record speed profile, for example.

FWIW I have a Garmin Vista CX for off-road use and a Garmin Nuvi for road use. Both are navigation devices, not training aids. The Nuvi has excellent street-level mapping, weighs nothing, and even has a built-in MP3 player for the boring bits But it isn't waterproof, and doesn't record or display altitude. You can't use topographical maps with it (I think). I use it on all my road rides these days, because I know that I can follow any road that looks interesting and never get lost.

The Vista is a proper outdoor sports nagivator. It's completely waterproof and almost indestructible. Unlike the Nuvi it has a built in electronic compass (you don't have to be moving to know which way you're heading) and barometer. You can measure and analyse your climb, but not (so far as I can see) your speed. You can get topo maps but they cost a fortune.

I would be very interested in a product that combined the training features of the 305, the navigation and routing of the Nuvi, and the topo capabilities and robustness of the Vista. Sadly, I don't think anybody makes one.

The Mechanic

I have a Garmin Etrex Vista HCX that I use for navigating round audaxes. Brilliant. Stops me getting lost all the time. I programme the routes in Mapsource and down load it to the Etrex.

Jamey

I've just bought an Edge 305 (about a month ago) and I love it. It's exactly what I wanted from a cycle computer. As others have said, the navigational aspects aren't brilliant but you can make it navigate, it just takes a bit of time messing about on the computer before you start your ride.

APIII

I always like to plan my routes out beforehand on memory map, so for me the Edge 305 does what I need in terms of navigation.

prevailrob

CrookedCucumber wrote:

The problem I have with Garmin products is that they all seem to be designed _either_ for training _or_ for navigation. There's no reason I can think of why the same unit couldn't do both pretty well -- except, perhaps, that this would hurt Garmin's sales.

In my view, the Forerunner and related products are rubbish for navigation. IIRC they can't even give you a location as a grid reference. let alone road-level navigation. But products with really good mapping really fail as training aids. Generally they don't record speed profile, for example.

FWIW I have a Garmin Vista CX for off-road use and a Garmin Nuvi for road use. Both are navigation devices, not training aids. The Nuvi has excellent street-level mapping, weighs nothing, and even has a built-in MP3 player for the boring bits But it isn't waterproof, and doesn't record or display altitude. You can't use topographical maps with it (I think). I use it on all my road rides these days, because I know that I can follow any road that looks interesting and never get lost.

The Vista is a proper outdoor sports nagivator. It's completely waterproof and almost indestructible. Unlike the Nuvi it has a built in electronic compass (you don't have to be moving to know which way you're heading) and barometer. You can measure and analyse your climb, but not (so far as I can see) your speed. You can get topo maps but they cost a fortune.

I would be very interested in a product that combined the training features of the 305, the navigation and routing of the Nuvi, and the topo capabilities and robustness of the Vista. Sadly, I don't think anybody makes one.

Just out of curiosity, how do you carry/attach to bike the nuvi? IIRC the nuvi is a "car" gps is it not?

For the sake of not spending any money the idea of using my LG gps i have in my car came to mind, but was unsure what id do in terms of attaching it to my bars. Maybe using a bar bag and slipping the unit under the map holder or something.

Rob

djheaton321

The Garmn 705 combines all the features of the 305 wrt training and if you pay for the road performance package, you get full street level mapping and navigation. I have only just got mine, it replaced a 305, very impressed with it. I can create routes in memory map and download them onto the Garmin for full turn by turn instructions/navigation. I don't tend to use the training centre software, I rely on sport tracks as a training diary. The interface between the 705 and sport tracks is not as straightforward as with the 305, but is ok once you get you head around it.

alanmcn1

I have a 305 forerunner with the cadence sensor and HRM strap, and I just wouldn't run or bike without. The navigation is basic, but then if you rely on a little screen to tell you where you are going you kinda have problems anyway?

Mog Uk

alanmcn1 wrote:

I have a 305 forerunner with the cadence sensor and HRM strap

Ditto, I have the same. To be honest I never bought the device for navigation, purely as a training aid and for downloading data to the PC.

alanmcn1

Likewise Mog, and I don't think you can buy a better device for that purpose

CrookedCucumber

prevailrob wrote:

CrookedCucumber wrote:

Just out of curiosity, how do you carry/attach to bike the nuvi? IIRC the nuvi is a "car" gps is it not?

Yes, it is primarily for cars. It's a right bear to get a handlebar mount for it. In the end I managed to get one from a US retailer via eBay. The mount itself cost less than the shipping to the UK. The new Nuvis have the additional complication of a flip-up antenna at the back, which makes using a general-purpose mount a problem. I was hoping to use my PDA mount but the antenna got in the way.

The handlebar mount I got is rather heavy (compared to, say, a carbon-fibre seatpost), because it has a long attachment arm. I find that the long arm is helpful because it puts the GPS above and to the front of the bars, so you don't have to look away from the road too much. Also the unit shouts `left' and `right' at you so you can get to unfamiliar places without looking at it too much.

The problem is that it's not waterproof.

CrookedCucumber

APIII wrote:

I always like to plan my routes out beforehand on memory map, so for me the Edge 305 does what I need in terms of navigation.

Well, yes -- I can do that with my Vista as well (but not the Nuvi). I can even upload routes from Google Maps, which is a convenient and zero-cost solution

The problem I have -- and that many people, I guess, won't have -- is that I like to explore at random. I live in a very picturesque area on the edge of the Chiltern hills, and if I see an interesting road or bridleway I like to see where it goes. What's more, even when I plan routes I often end up not following them, because I run out of time or I don't like them, or whatever.

So for road use I prefer a GPS with decent mapping, and miss out on the sporty stuff. The Nuvi (and the vista) will give average and max speed, duration and distance, and that's about it.

As for heart-rate monitors, I know people who swear by them. But, at my age, so long as I have a heart rate, I don't really feel I need to know any more

Barrie_G

I'm currently researching the Satmap Active 10 which looks very good as a bike mounted navigation aid and a little less good training aid, it's generally getting some reasonably good reviews after a shakey start but it's looking more and more like the sort of thing I'm after.

FSR_XC

Mog Uk wrote:

alanmcn1 wrote:

I have a 305 forerunner with the cadence sensor and HRM strap

Ditto, I have the same. To be honest I never bought the device for navigation, purely as a training aid and for downloading data to the PC.

Ditto

minus the cadence sensor.

Use it running, cycling & MTB.

If you don't know where you're going, buy a map.

gkerr4

Felix-da-house-mouse wrote:

gkerr do you put your info after a ride onto your pc and look at it?

i do yes - being a bit of a techy-geek I find that the edge305 produces some very interesting statistics.

in fairness, given that I don't actually race, it is a bit overkill - but cool all the same.

CrookedCucumber

Barrie_G wrote:

I'm currently researching the Satmap Active 10 which looks very good as a bike mounted navigation aid and a little less good training aid, it's generally getting some reasonably good reviews after a shakey start but it's looking more and more like the sort of thing I'm after.

It certainly does look the business but at 300 quid plus the cost of maps, I think I want know what people who have used it for real think of it, before I part with my cash

And I'm still not sure how will it will work at the street level, if at all.

CrookedCucumber

FSR_XC wrote:

alanmcn1 wrote:

If you don't know where you're going, buy a map.

Well, yer pays your whatnot and takes your doodah, I guess. If you always cycle on the same route or small number of routes, or you always cycle on substantial, well-signed roads, then I guess you've got little need for navigation, gps or otherwise.

On the other hand, if you live in farm country as I do, which is peppered with roads that are are often unsigned, and follow the contours rather than any sort of planning, it's nice to be able to have some sort of navigational assistance. Stopping to fumble around with tatty bits of paper on a ride is a real hassle.

Felix-da-house-mouse

gkerr4 wrote:

Felix-da-house-mouse wrote:

gkerr do you put your info after a ride onto your pc and look at it?

i do yes - being a bit of a techy-geek I find that the edge305 produces some very interesting statistics.

in fairness, given that I don't actually race, it is a bit overkill - but cool all the same.

be good to know what your body's doing all the same tho.

i quite like the look of this:- http://www.handtec.co.uk/product.php?xProd=904

APIII

CrookedCucumber wrote:

APIII wrote:

I always like to plan my routes out beforehand on memory map, so for me the Edge 305 does what I need in terms of navigation.

Well, yes -- I can do that with my Vista as well (but not the Nuvi). I can even upload routes from Google Maps, which is a convenient and zero-cost solution

The problem I have -- and that many people, I guess, won't have -- is that I like to explore at random. I live in a very picturesque area on the edge of the Chiltern hills, and if I see an interesting road or bridleway I like to see where it goes. What's more, even when I plan routes I often end up not following them, because I run out of time or I don't like them, or whatever.

So for road use I prefer a GPS with decent mapping, and miss out on the sporty stuff. The Nuvi (and the vista) will give average and max speed, duration and distance, and that's about it.

As for heart-rate monitors, I know people who swear by them. But, at my age, so long as I have a heart rate, I don't really feel I need to know any more

Sounds like the 705 would fit the bill then as long as you get the one with the detailed maps.

CrookedCucumber

APIII wrote:

CrookedCucumber wrote:

APIII wrote:

I always like to plan my routes out beforehand on memory map, so for me the Edge 305 does what I need in terms of navigation.

Well, yes -- I can do that with my Vista as well (but not the Nuvi). I can even upload routes from Google Maps, which is a convenient and zero-cost solution

The problem I have -- and that many people, I guess, won't have -- is that I like to explore at random. I live in a very picturesque area on the edge of the Chiltern hills, and if I see an interesting road or bridleway I like to see where it goes. What's more, even when I plan routes I often end up not following them, because I run out of time or I don't like them, or whatever.

So for road use I prefer a GPS with decent mapping, and miss out on the sporty stuff. The Nuvi (and the vista) will give average and max speed, duration and distance, and that's about it.

As for heart-rate monitors, I know people who swear by them. But, at my age, so long as I have a heart rate, I don't really feel I need to know any more

Sounds like the 705 would fit the bill then as long as you get the one with the detailed maps.

Yes, maybe. But I'm not sure what it can do that my Vista Cx can't do, given that I'd have to buy detailed maps for both. I appreciate that the 705 has additional training stuff, but it's a lot of money

Looking out of the window at the endless drizzle right now, I'm thinking of going back to the Vista for on-road use as well as off-road, as it's waterproof, and the Nuvi isn't

daniel_b

I bought myself and my gf an Edge 205 a few months ago, Halfords had them for £90 each!

I wouldn't have paid £200, or £150 for it, but for that money it is superb for what it gives me, in return for the outlay, easily justifiable in my eyes.

All done by satellites, no cables, no fork pickups, no wheel magnets, really good.
With the 205 & 305 you get 2 handlebar mounts, so one on the roadie, and one on the MTB.

MTB routes you can either plot out beforehand, or just ride wherever, and when you get home it will tell you all the stats, and where you have been, and if you want you can upload this to Google earth for a better idea of what ground you covered.

Road routes, you can set your waypoints beforehand using training centre, after using mapmyride, and away you go.

Quality bit of kit, good solid bracket, and the device itself feels like it is well made.

Dan

star_rover

CrookedCucumber wrote:

Barrie_G wrote:

I'm currently researching the Satmap Active 10 which looks very good as a bike mounted navigation aid and a little less good training aid, it's generally getting some reasonably good reviews after a shakey start but it's looking more and more like the sort of thing I'm after.

It certainly does look the business but at 300 quid plus the cost of maps, I think I want know what people who have used it for real think of it, before I part with my cash

And I'm still not sure how will it will work at the street level, if at all.

I bought one a couple of weeks ago in Field and Trek for £240 (they currently have 20% off everything).
I only wanted it for navigation on the bike and in the moors and mountains (while walking), so the fact it has OS mapping was its main selling point. Not bothered about speed/HR etc. I've got other computers for that.
For street level mapping, the best you can get would be 1:25000 OS maps. I use 1:50000 OS maps and they are better for out in the country riding.
Plotting routes on the Satmap itself is ridiculously easy as is transferring pre-plotted routes from PC with the Satsync app. Not uploaded any data post-ride, but can't see why there would be any problems.
The handlebar bracket is very stable, though the satmap itself is pretty big and none too subtle when compared to other sleeker devices.

CrookedCucumber

star_rover wrote:

The handlebar bracket is very stable, though the satmap itself is pretty big and none too subtle when compared to other sleeker devices.

On the other hand, I imagine that the screen is much larger than on the small Garmin units, which I would take as a good thing.

Does it have `real' OS maps, that is, in the same colours and apperance as paper maps? Is the level of detail equivalent? (Do they show footpaths, for example?) Garmin's OS offerings are not all that good, in my opinion.

Kafka\'s Doll

CrookedCucumber wrote:

APIII wrote:

CrookedCucumber wrote:

APIII wrote:

I always like to plan my routes out beforehand on memory map, so for me the Edge 305 does what I need in terms of navigation.

Well, yes -- I can do that with my Vista as well (but not the Nuvi). I can even upload routes from Google Maps, which is a convenient and zero-cost solution

The problem I have -- and that many people, I guess, won't have -- is that I like to explore at random. I live in a very picturesque area on the edge of the Chiltern hills, and if I see an interesting road or bridleway I like to see where it goes. What's more, even when I plan routes I often end up not following them, because I run out of time or I don't like them, or whatever.

So for road use I prefer a GPS with decent mapping, and miss out on the sporty stuff. The Nuvi (and the vista) will give average and max speed, duration and distance, and that's about it.

As for heart-rate monitors, I know people who swear by them. But, at my age, so long as I have a heart rate, I don't really feel I need to know any more

Sounds like the 705 would fit the bill then as long as you get the one with the detailed maps.

Yes, maybe. But I'm not sure what it can do that my Vista Cx can't do, given that I'd have to buy detailed maps for both. I appreciate that the 705 has additional training stuff, but it's a lot of money

Looking out of the window at the endless drizzle right now, I'm thinking of going back to the Vista for on-road use as well as off-road, as it's waterproof, and the Nuvi isn't

Why would you have to buy maps for both? They both take the same MicroSD cards, don't they?

But if you already have turn-by-turn directions and mapping, the only difference is the cycle-specific functions that you could get more cheaply on any other cycle computer.

star_rover

CrookedCucumber wrote:

star_rover wrote:

The handlebar bracket is very stable, though the satmap itself is pretty big and none too subtle when compared to other sleeker devices.

On the other hand, I imagine that the screen is much larger than on the small Garmin units, which I would take as a good thing.

Does it have `real' OS maps, that is, in the same colours and apperance as paper maps? Is the level of detail equivalent? (Do they show footpaths, for example?) Garmin's OS offerings are not all that good, in my opinion.

Yep, proper OS maps, exactly the same detail as the paper versions. 1:25000 or 1:50000. The 1:25000 are quite a bit more expensive though.