Tubeless nightmare

neil_uk

Well, my first fiddle with tubeless has been an absolute disaster! I'm covered in sealant, my bike is covered in sealant, and I've just wasted six Co2 cartridges! My fault for not using proper tubeless tyres I guess.

I tried fitting standard panaracer cinder 2.25 tyres to my bontager tubeless rims, I filled them with stan's sealant and they kept blasting out air from the tyre near the valve.

Should i try another "proper" tyre??? or just give it up as a bad job???

S_J_P

Panaracer tyres aren't supposed to be the best for tubeless conversion as their beads are very loose (I've blown my Cinder off the rim a couple of times when using tubes myself), also I've been told (by the Technical Boffins at Joe's No-Flats) that the use of CO2 will prevent the sealant from working :?

I managed to get sealant everywhere too when I converted in the autumn too, don't give up though as the hassle is definitely worth it in the end

Here are my tips for going tubeless, the tips most appropriate to you are probably bead lubrication, a helper banging the tread, and a ratchet-strap around the tyre.

:arrow: Enlarge the inner valve hole and make sure you file the holes rim smooth (prevents bulging of the rimstrip around the valve)
:arrow: Wet the rimstrips with soapy water before installing them (helps them seat evenly).
:arrow: Make sure the rimstrips tension is even and that there are no narrow areas where it’s pulled tight.
:arrow: Make sure the rimstrips edges are even on both sides of the rim and fully seated below the bead lock (use a plastic tyre lever).
:arrow: After mounting the tyre, use more soapy water on the bead and rimstrip again to lubricate it and aid sealing.
:arrow: Banging around the tread of the mounted (but deflated tyre) splays the bead opening aiding sealing.
:arrow: Pressing down on the tyre tread above the valve seats that bit of the bead and starts the inflation process going in the right direction.
:arrow: A helper, banging the tyre tread to splay the bead whilst inflating can help.
:arrow: A ratchet-strap or luggage strap around the tyre circumference when pulled tight helps seat the bead.
:arrow: If you haven’t got a compressor, you can initially check the seating of the tyre bead using a CO2 cartridge before the sealant is added (but deflate and get as much CO2 out as you can before adding the sealant)
:arrow: Don’t use valve-applicator bottles for sealant for the initial filling, pour the sealant into the partially mounted tyre at the bottom, then rotate the tyre 180º before remounting the bead at the top (prevents sealant loss when remounting).
:arrow: Pump like mad using the biggest Track Pump you can lay your hands on!
:arrow: Spin the wheel, and then start the shaking process. After each full rotation, lay the wheel horizontally on top of a bucket or box for five minutes to help the bead and sidewalls seal.
:arrow: Repeat at least twice for each side of the wheel.

stu8975

I would definately recommend getting actual tubeless tyres first + large track pump + soapy water + 2 tyre levers...ive got it down to about 5 mins per tyre for complete fitting.....1st apply soapy water to the rimstrip and tyre bead then fit tyre, then pop a small section of the tyre back off the rim (about 4 inches) keeping the tyre levers attached and rotate it to about the 4o'clock position, insert tyre sealant through the popped off section (it will run towards the bottom of the tyre), then pop the tyre back on and pump like a mofo with the track pump, kepping pumping until you here it pop into place (i normally pump to 45psi then deflate to 30psi), then spin the wheel to spread the sealant around the tyre...job done

toasty

Defeats the point in Stan's style conversions a bit if you use heavy tubeless tyres though*. I've fitted a pair of Specialized Resolution tyres with a Joe's kit with no problems.

I found it hard getting much goop in through the valve, in the end I just poured some directly into the tyre, then seated it and pumped up. The first few goes I failed completely, watched the videos, used a LOT more soap suds, pumped far more viciously and applied pressure to the tyre at the valve. The second one was a breeze after getting the first up, they've held up for about 6 months now, I can still hear liquid inside as well.


*Oh saying that, I've just noticed you had tubeless rims anyway, maybe standard tubeless tyres were a good idea.

artillerydave

Toasty wrote:

Defeats the point in Stan's style conversions a bit if you use heavy tubeless tyres though*. I've fitted a pair of Specialized Resolution tyres with a Joe's kit with no problems.

not all tubeless tyres are heavy, plus remember there is always a trade off between light weight and unrliability when it comes to tyres, around 700g -800g for a good UST tyre is money an weight well spent.

Panaracer non UST I doubt you will ever get to seat, try maybe the new Panaracer rampages 2.1 (750g) or Continental Mountain Kings UST 2.4 (800g) if you want a good base point. Both great tyres.

S_J_P

Trying some of the tubeless ready tyres which still require sealant (Bonty's for instance) should give you the optimal trade off of durability/ease of fitting/weight. Full, heavy UST's aren't really necessary if you're running sealant.

neil_uk

I'm pleased about the encouragement - secretly, I did want to have another go! :P

I've been shopping round locally for tyres and can get -

Schwalbe Jimmy folding
Kenda Tomac Nevegal DTC Folding
Maxxis Ignitor kevlar
Maxxis ADvantage Kevlar 62a
Continental Mountain King 2.2
Geax Tyres Saguaro TNT Tyre

Which leads me to another one of those "which tyre" dilema! sigh....

Anyway, thanks everyone for the advice. I'll have another shot at it at the weekend, and let you know how I get on with whatever tyres I buy.

Ps. Are folding tyres easier to seal? (because the missus has a brand new set of wire bead maxxis ignitors on her hardtail :twisted: shhhh!)

cheers
Neil.

S_J_P

Steel tyres shouldn't be any easier to seal, just heavier!

One of the Tubeless Conversion websites (possibly JustRidingAlong) did have a list of know "good" tyres and those which are known to be troublesome. It may be worth checking around.

neil_uk

S_J_P wrote:

Steel tyres shouldn't be any easier to seal, just heavier!

One of the Tubeless Conversion websites (possibly JustRidingAlong) did have a list of know "good" tyres and those which are known to be troublesome. It may be worth checking around.

Nice one - thanks for the link mate!

Think i'll try a Maxxis ADvantage on the front, and either that or an Ignitor on the back.

looking for a good tyre combo for Dalby this summer.

rob cole

preparation is the key to getting a tubeless system to inflate first time - that and choosing the correct tires

Panaracer tires are on the "no" list of Stan's compatability

I've run Maxxis (High Rollers and Minions) and Syncros (BHT-2) without any problems, using Stans

I never use the "injector" valve tool to put Stans liquid in, its easier to just pour it straight into the tire (leave a couple of inches unseated)

getting the right consistency of soapy water is vital, and use lots of it....it really does help seat the tire and then get the initial seal (you can inflate the tire without sealent as long as you have enough soapy water, but of course it would deflate over several hours without sealent)

a good quality track pump, in good condition is important

with my current Syncros BHT kevlar tires and Sun Singletrack rims, the Stans system will inflate straight away, literally within a couple of pumps

neil_uk

hmmm..... I've just rode the missus' bike and I'm not too keen on the ignitors now.

i've changed my mind..... It's going to be either Mountain Kings or ADvantage

I knew this would turn to a "which tyre" post! :?

artillerydave

artillerydave wrote:

try maybe the new Panaracer rampages 2.1 (750g) or Continental Mountain Kings UST 2.4 (800g) if you want a good base point. Both great tyres.

I am using the 2.4 Mountain King I mentioned above and have been for some time now and have nothing but praise for them, I find them quick and grippy and as they are UST they hold the air brilliantly, £30 a pop from Ultimate Pursuits to your LBS.

neil_uk

Yeah, I was leaning towards the continentals - Just ordered them from wiggle!

Sikora

Are the non-UST Mountain Kings suitable for a tubeless conversion?

Salsa

I converted my 717s to tubeless the otherday using nothing more than old bmx tubes & some Slime. I managed to get a 18 litre keg of the stuff for £10 from work so thought it was worth a try.
Was a bit of a chore as it seems to take about an hour to fully seal unlike the stans stuff which seems to seal in a few minutes. What I found was soapy water round the edge of the tyre is essential to get a temp seal to get the initial pump up, then I just kept shaking it & left it it laying flat before turning it over every 15 minutes.
I normally run Michelin's but due to stans saying they are not the best I used a pair of Continental Explorer Pro folding (again I got these cheap from work, £10 the pair).
I just poured the Slime in the tyre rather than through the valve, I'm going to give them a good off road blast today as I have only tried them out on the road so far.
Hopefully they will work ok but I'm not too bothered if not as it only cost me next to nothing.

neil_uk

I've managed to get the continentals to inflate! A lot easier than i thought to be honest - I really went to town with the soapy water this time though.

The sealant is now in and as far as I can tell there aren't leaks now. I have them inflated to 45 psi. I'll give them a test run on the street tomorrow.

I'm looking forward to trying them out round Hamsterley on Monday

Thanks people!

Anonymous

i have managed to get regular mountain kings to inflate and seal using co2 carts and stans liquid on xm819 rims

i also managed to get regula maxxis high rollers to inflate and seal (loads eaier than the contis) on my mavic cross trail wheels

both rims are tubeless compatible so i spose that helps, the real probs i had was that i couldnt get regular tyres to inflate in the first place without either a compresor or co2.

neither tyre was as easy as proper ust tyres though and the contis in particular were a right ballbag ache.

bot123

rrrrrrrr

The Rookie

I notice you've not mentioned rim tape, what rim tape are you using?

Tubeless 'ready' rims don't always come with tubeless 'ready' rim tape fitted, the tyre seals to the tape and not the rim.

JBA

And that's a 9 year old thread resurrected.

Is that a record?

neil_uk

lol oh and by the way...... I now love tubeless

The Rookie

JBA wrote:

And that's a 9 year old thread resurrected.

Is that a record?

I'd not noticed that!

compuwiz_uk

its a timely ressurection though.

its an apt title for me with my efforts to convert the fleet to tubeless.

i aint managed to convert a single rim fully yet, & 2 bottles of goo down already, thought i had managed it on the 29er but they were just having me on & both then gave up after a couple of days & stoppped holding air - the roady is being a bigger arse too as it wont keep its tyres on the rim if i go over 65psi which aint good when i run em around 90 - the tyres / rims are good for 130 with tube but dont wanna know without - but not tubeless ready so it was always a gamble lol