Nice guy di Luca?

timoid.
timoid. Posts: 3,133
edited April 2008 in Pro race
Sacrificed himself for Bosisio in the Giro d'Oro at the weekend and seemed genuinely delighted for his teammate's success. He has a heart after all.

I'm beginning to sympahtise with him. He pulled off an amazing season last year, taking arguably the most prestigious one day race and his home Tour and is treated like a pariah, while several of his equally dodgy and less successful rivals are feted. He doesn't complain and his teammates (other than Gaspartto last year) seem to genuinely like and respect him.

Now he can't even defend his LBL crown, while Vav.Piti, Cunego, Rebellin and the Robobank automatons duke it out for the honours. By the letter of the law, he should be there on Sunday.
It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.

Comments

  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Timoid. wrote:

    Now he can't even defend his LBL crown, while Vav.Piti, Cunego, Rebellin and the Robobank automatons duke it out for the honours. By the letter of the law, he should be there on Sunday.

    Don't be daft Timoid - They are fighting the good fight not inviting him

    I know the ever friendly Savoldelli says positive things about him too.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    Once again, it's not just nasty guys who dope. People can be very nice but also violent, selfish, prone to snore or what ever. You can be a top bloke, generous and kind, but still end up doping. Where the extent of doping touches on a man's character is when you see the statements of denial, even in the face of overwhelming evidence.
  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    Oh I'm pretty sure he dopes. Its not been proven however and so he should be allowed to compete. There'll be another 100 riders at the LBL startline who I'm pretty sure dope as well. And some teams I'm damn certain of.

    Any team of a defending champion should be invited.
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Timoid. wrote:
    Oh I'm pretty sure he dopes. Its not been proven however and so he should be allowed to compete. There'll be another 100 riders at the LBL startline who I'm pretty sure dope as well. And some teams I'm damn certain of.

    According to the Comic last week, the results this year show the biological passport is having an effect. That's why Quick.Step, CSC and Rabobank are having a great season.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • calvjones
    calvjones Posts: 3,850
    iainf72 wrote:
    Timoid. wrote:
    Oh I'm pretty sure he dopes. Its not been proven however and so he should be allowed to compete. There'll be another 100 riders at the LBL startline who I'm pretty sure dope as well. And some teams I'm damn certain of.

    According to the Comic last week, the results this year show the biological passport is having an effect. That's why Quick.Step, CSC and Rabobank are having a great season.

    We really need a [sarcasm] icon....
    ___________________

    Strava is not Zen.
  • secretsqirrel
    secretsqirrel Posts: 2,123
    Timoid. wrote:
    Any team of a defending champion should be invited.

    Astana for the TDF then? :D
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    Timoid. wrote:
    Sacrificed himself for Bosisio in the Giro d'Oro at the weekend and seemed genuinely delighted for his teammate's success. He has a heart after all.

    I'm beginning to sympahtise with him. He pulled off an amazing season last year, taking arguably the most prestigious one day race and his home Tour and is treated like a pariah, while several of his equally dodgy and less successful rivals are feted. He doesn't complain and his teammates (other than Gaspartto last year) seem to genuinely like and respect him.

    Now he can't even defend his LBL crown, while Vav.Piti, Cunego, Rebellin and the Robobank automatons duke it out for the honours. By the letter of the law, he should be there on Sunday.

    Certain other riders who excel in one day races *and* grand tours (or even Queen mountain stages of grand tours) immediately invite suspicion and criticism from today's cycling fans, even without dodgy longitudinal biological profiles.

    In such a climate, I must confess to raising an eyebrow as Di Luca crossed the line only 30 seconds behind Simoni on the Zoncolan stage last year.
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    SecretSqirrel wrote:
    Timoid. wrote:
    Any team of a defending champion should be invited.

    Astana for the TDF then? :D

    Yep.

    What has LPR done to deserve exclusion from LBL? They have two potential winners in their ranks, a good performing squad and the defending champion.
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • secretsqirrel
    secretsqirrel Posts: 2,123
    Timoid. wrote:
    SecretSqirrel wrote:
    Timoid. wrote:
    Any team of a defending champion should be invited.

    Astana for the TDF then? :D

    Yep.

    What has LPR done to deserve exclusion from LBL? They have two potential winners in their ranks, a good performing squad and the defending champion.

    Invites awarded on merit? What is the world coming to :wink: .
  • squired
    squired Posts: 1,153
    It must be very frustrating for the testers. With all the data they have available from previous tests they must have a very good (to the point of near certainty) idea which riders are up to dodgy practices, but obviously can't do much unless the person actually tests positive. OK, they can target such people, but if the person has a good medical programme they will never actually test positive. I bet that if you knew the right people they could easily list names of riders that are definitely or almost definitely drugged to the eyeballs, and others that are completely clean. Sadly we will never see the same data. I'd love to see results of blood profiles released during grand tours (i.e. rider in 1st started with hct of 47, dropping to 41, rider in 2nd started with hct of 44, finished with hct of 48, etc).
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    squired wrote:
    It must be very frustrating for the testers. With all the data they have available from previous tests they must have a very good (to the point of near certainty) idea which riders are up to dodgy practices, but obviously can't do much unless the person actually tests positive.

    Perhaps. But remember Boonen and Basso's blood test results were held up as an example of how things were improving etc back in 06.

    And we all know what happened after that.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    I don't see the link between squired's comment and your post Iain. Maybe it's the head cold I've got today or something.

    There's not much likelihood of false positives here - if a rider's blood values are up and down like a fiddler's elbow (or more precisely, down then up especially during a GT), they are up to no good. Basso is more likely a false negative, where he managed somehow to smooth out his values, or at least make them somehow look normal (assuming he really was cheating and not just planning to...). And I'm not sure what happened with Boonen in 06?

    What I'd really like to see is concrete evidence of how to defeat the blood passport/CSC/Slipstream testing system. Has anyone written an article saying "right, this is what you'd need to do, and this is how you'd go about it". If anyone knows of such an article, it must be Iain!!!
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    Even the cleverest mathematicians and statisticians have been caught out finding patterns in what actually turn out to be randomly generated numbers. With Basso, just because the UCI took some samples, it doesn't say much. They didn't take many samples, just on a few random days. But the UCI has a vested interest in taking one tiny set of data and using it to build up a picture of a clean sport.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    DaveyL wrote:
    I don't see the link between squired's comment and your post Iain. Maybe it's the head cold I've got today or something.

    What I meant was, early in 06 Basso's blood profile was held up as an example of how everything was getting better and how they were nice and consistent. These were the same profiles that raised alarms with Tyler Hamilton originally.

    I've not seen an article on how to defeat the passport type of concept (well, not one I'd take seriously) however, I'd like to see some controlled testing to make sure it works the way we'd expect it to work.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    There must be, at least hypothetically, a way to try and beat the system. I think this is crucial to the credibility of these testing regimes - we need to know how easy it is to beat the system, or it means nothing.
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    DaveyL wrote:
    There must be, at least hypothetically, a way to try and beat the system. I think this is crucial to the credibility of these testing regimes - we need to know how easy it is to beat the system, or it means nothing.

    I would agree. I'd go so far as to say that they are actively being beaten at the moment. Ashenden said that Damsgaards system was not worth that much and seeing as that's better than the others, it does make you wonder.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.

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