A twist on Campag/Shimano question

Mark Alexander
Mark Alexander Posts: 2,277
edited April 2008 in Workshop
I'm not trying to stir up a hornet's nest but my question is simple... ish. :?
As it's so good, why is it so difficult to find bikes furnished with Campag?
http://twitter.com/mgalex
www.ogmorevalleywheelers.co.uk

10TT 24:36 25TT: 57:59 50TT: 2:08:11, 100TT: 4:30:05 12hr 204.... unfinished business

Comments

  • redddraggon
    redddraggon Posts: 10,862
    It's probably the same answer as to "Why do most computers come with MS Windows?"
    I like bikes...

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  • giant_man
    giant_man Posts: 6,878
    redddraggon wrote:
    It's probably the same answer as to "Why do most computers come with MS Windows?"

    Great answer and one I completely agree with!
  • McBain_v1
    McBain_v1 Posts: 5,237
    Perhaps the Campagnogo crowd want to retain their exclusivity and don't want any new members :?:
    What do I ride? Now that's an Enigma!
  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    Price
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • graham_g
    graham_g Posts: 652
    Apparently Shimano prices very keenly for their OEM groupsets/parts so manufacturers are far more likely to fit out complete bikes with it. Given that the majority of groupsets are sold to manufacturers, they can afford to make a small margin because of the huge volumes.
  • andy_wrx
    andy_wrx Posts: 3,396
    I wonder if there's an image thing - do some people actually want a bike equipped with Shimano and don't want one with Campag ?

    (I bet there are probably some Campag I'd-rather-walk-than-use-Shimano types out there scratching their heads trying to understand this... :D:D:D )

    Otherwise, why some brands such as Pinarello or Bianchi coming with Shimano fitted ?

    Some people will buy the bike with Ultegra fitted but not Centaur because perhaps
    - they prefer Shimano,
    - or think it's better,
    - or have had it before and are comfortable using or maintaining it and don't want to start messing about with another typre
    - etc
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    The majority of bikes are manufactured and assembled in the far east - the cheapest (most profitable) and most available components are from Shimano and that's why they are fitted. Campagnolo simply don't operate on the same scale and therefore cannot afford to give the depth of discount to OEMs to fit them to their bikes - they are more focused on the aftermarket and significantly smaller scale custom and shop-assembly markets. In the days of yore, where race bikes where custom-built by your local shop and assembled using your choice of components - the concept of a groupset was unknown - something that a marketing man schemed up as a wheeze to improve their 'brand' profile. The Windows analogy is so true - most people don't even know they have a 'choice'
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • secretsam
    secretsam Posts: 5,120
    Monty Dog wrote:
    In the days of yore, where race bikes where custom-built by your local shop and assembled using your choice of components - the concept of a groupset was unknown - something that a marketing man schemed up as a wheeze to improve their 'brand' profile.

    Ahhhhh....sigh...
    My old 'dream' bike:
    531 freame
    Mavics on Campag Tipos
    Stronglight 99 chainset
    Campag Rally mechs, with Simplex shifters (braze on)
    Weinemann brakes with CLB levers and Aztec pads
    Cinelli bars and stem
    Cheap SR seatpin (they were ace)

    SIGH

    Those were the days, when you picked what YOU wanted...
    It's just a hill. Get over it.
  • Pirahna
    Pirahna Posts: 1,315
    SecretSam wrote:
    Those were the days, when you picked what YOU wanted...

    You still can if you can be bothered.
  • aarw
    aarw Posts: 448
    Graham G wrote:
    Apparently Shimano prices very keenly for their OEM groupsets/parts so manufacturers are far more likely to fit out complete bikes with it. Given that the majority of groupsets are sold to manufacturers, they can afford to make a small margin because of the huge volumes.

    bingo. Campag doesn't do OEM. Shimano OEM parts can be picked up pretty cheap for manufacturers. I only recently learned that the OEM parts are mde in a different factory/country. :o

    Some manufacturers do offer their nikes built with campag also, this is due to customer demand, and hence is slightly more expensive.
  • secretsam
    secretsam Posts: 5,120
    Pirahna wrote:
    SecretSam wrote:
    Those were the days, when you picked what YOU wanted...

    You still can if you can be bothered.

    Well, no you can't 'cos Shimano gears won't talk to Campag cassettes which won't fit shimano hubs...you used to be able to pretty much pick and choose what you wanted, now it seems you're limited. But no doubt, the gear today is probably better than it used to be...
    It's just a hill. Get over it.
  • redddraggon
    redddraggon Posts: 10,862
    It annoys me when they do team bikes and throw on the wrong brand of groupset.

    Liquigas painted bikes should come with Campag whatever the price range - not throw on Shimano.
    I like bikes...

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  • redddraggon
    redddraggon Posts: 10,862
    SecretSam wrote:
    Pirahna wrote:
    SecretSam wrote:
    Those were the days, when you picked what YOU wanted...

    You still can if you can be bothered.

    Well, no you can't 'cos Shimano gears won't talk to Campag cassettes which won't fit shimano hubs...you used to be able to pretty much pick and choose what you wanted, now it seems you're limited. But no doubt, the gear today is probably better than it used to be...

    Well yeh, you can, if you can be bothered. Jtek Shiftmate.
    I like bikes...

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  • Mark Alexander
    Mark Alexander Posts: 2,277
    I'm a Mac person [enlightened] so I know that annalogy Does this mean that SRAM is Linux?

    I was lucky when buying my 1st road bike, my LBS happened to be stocking a Monoc with full Campag (I didn't know then what I was getting) I was just lucky. The thumb leavers too. I have Shim on my race bike so have used both.
    I like the simple lines that the hidden cables give and also the 'feel' of the hoods.

    I'm just thinking that when I replace it, what makes do I need to look at?
    http://twitter.com/mgalex
    www.ogmorevalleywheelers.co.uk

    10TT 24:36 25TT: 57:59 50TT: 2:08:11, 100TT: 4:30:05 12hr 204.... unfinished business
  • over-the-hill
    over-the-hill Posts: 144
    I saw the new far east carbon Colnago CLX yesterday in Evans with FSA cranks and Shimano gears etc no Campag to be seen. One of the reasons I chose a Wilier was for the Campag. In some ways I think Shimano looks better though. I've been told Campag lasts longer...
  • campagsarge
    campagsarge Posts: 434
    Wiggle used to sell OEM campag parts but I think they have stopped doing so now.
  • redddraggon
    redddraggon Posts: 10,862
    I think Ribble is the cheapest for Campag stuff now. It;s looks pretty OEMish - it doesn't come in retail boxes anyway.
    I like bikes...

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  • richardjallen
    richardjallen Posts: 691
    Graham G wrote:
    Apparently Shimano prices very keenly for their OEM groupsets/parts so manufacturers are far more likely to fit out complete bikes with it. Given that the majority of groupsets are sold to manufacturers, they can afford to make a small margin because of the huge volumes.

    Why is it then the chainset frequently gets swapped out for the likes of FSA or TruVativ?
  • richardjallen
    richardjallen Posts: 691
    Mark Alexander wrote:
    I'm a Mac person [enlightened] so I know that annalogy Does this mean that SRAM is Linux?

    I was lucky when buying my 1st road bike, my LBS happened to be stocking a Monoc with full Campag (I didn't know then what I was getting) I was just lucky. The thumb leavers too. I have Shim on my race bike so have used both.
    I like the simple lines that the hidden cables give and also the 'feel' of the hoods.

    I'm just thinking that when I replace it, what makes do I need to look at?

    Well if Shimano is Windows, Campag is Mac, SRAM is Linux, who was Amiga? SunTour maybe.
  • 4candles
    4candles Posts: 240
    Pirahna wrote:
    SecretSam wrote:
    Those were the days, when you picked what YOU wanted...

    You still can if you can be bothered.

    I did.... Dura Ace throughout ! LOL. i went to probably the best Frame builders in England too and specced the best.
  • redddraggon
    redddraggon Posts: 10,862
    4candles wrote:
    Pirahna wrote:
    SecretSam wrote:
    Those were the days, when you picked what YOU wanted...

    You still can if you can be bothered.

    I did.... Dura Ace throughout ! LOL. i went to probably the best Frame builders in England too and specced the best.

    Huh? We all know to make no compromises you need to spec Record - without a doubt.
    I like bikes...

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  • aarw
    aarw Posts: 448
    redddraggon wrote:
    I think Ribble is the cheapest for Campag stuff now. It;s looks pretty OEMish - it doesn't come in retail boxes anyway.

    Slane Cycles in Belfast have very keen prices on campag. they've only recently started doing online/mailorder in the past 12 months but seem to be very good.
  • secretsam
    secretsam Posts: 5,120
    redddraggon wrote:
    SecretSam wrote:
    Pirahna wrote:
    SecretSam wrote:
    Those were the days, when you picked what YOU wanted...

    You still can if you can be bothered.

    Well, no you can't 'cos Shimano gears won't talk to Campag cassettes which won't fit shimano hubs...you used to be able to pretty much pick and choose what you wanted, now it seems you're limited. But no doubt, the gear today is probably better than it used to be...

    Well yeh, you can, if you can be bothered. Jtek Shiftmate.

    Jtek Shiftmate?

    And I was under the firm impression from reading on there that you can't mix Shimano and Campag geary bits. Maybe I'm mistaken. I appreciate you could buy one mob's brake calipers, another's gears, etc...

    Bear in mind I'm new to all this.
    It's just a hill. Get over it.
  • Pirahna
    Pirahna Posts: 1,315
    SecretSam wrote:
    Jtek Shiftmate?

    And I was under the firm impression from reading on there that you can't mix Shimano and Campag geary bits. Maybe I'm mistaken. I appreciate you could buy one mob's brake calipers, another's gears, etc...

    Bear in mind I'm new to all this.

    The bits you don't need from a groupset are brakes, chainset and BB, hubs and front mech. This leaves the shifters, rear mech and cassette.

    You can make just about any combination work, the shiftmate is one solution. I've also read that Campag shifters work very well with a Shimano cassette if you use a SRAM rear mech. There are other options as well, for example American Classics do a cassette (I think they still do) to run Campag shifters and mech on a Shimano wheel.

    The main reason for sticking with one manufacturer is that it makes life easy.

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