Dodgy Time trials

ugo.santalucia

Please have a look at this

How to make a hell of a profit out of a couple of wheels, look!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... :IT&ih=009

This is before: the chap buys at 385 pounds, then adds 2 wheels, shall we say another 200 pounds on E-bay?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Stunning-Colnago- ... dZViewItem

And it does the trick...

Think about it, you don't need to be a certified mechanic to put a couple of wheels on...
I'don't mind the concept, but all those lies... could he not just say I buy assemble and sell?

I leave any moral judgement to you

Have a nice day

Ugo

Pirahna

I don't see the problem, unless it was your frame that he bought and you're a bit pissed that you didn't spot the opportunity.

ugo.santalucia

Not my frame no, don't do TT, but at the time I sent the link to the frame to a friend who does TT, he didn't bid though, now I see it again

If you think is OK to invent a story about a bike you never owned... then it's OK...

How would you feel if you bought a bike from someone thinking he had genuinely ridden the bike himself, and then discovered he put it together buying bits on E-bay?

I would feel cheated...

It's basically up to where you draw the line, I know it's legal, but still immoral...

Bronzie

Is this any different to an art dealer finding a rare masterpiece at a boot sale and then selling it at auction for big money?

If you want to maximise your selling price on Ebay, you need to take a bit of time and care putting your ad together (ie not spell time trial "Time Trail") and don't put "collect only" on it unless you want to put people off.

ugo.santalucia

As I said, it's up to where you draw the line.

I have two problems here

1) The guy pretends he had owned and occasionally ridden the bike and reluctantly sells. This is not the case as the frame was on sale a couple of months ago

2) The guy states the bike as new is worth 4000 pounds: this is not true, the wheels are the cheapest profiled wheels on the market.

Someone who claims he had owned a work of art for three generations, while in facts he had bought it one week before at an auction is a liar, there is no other definition for it. If you like to deal with those people, fair enough, I don't

Bronzie

ugo.santalucia wrote:

If you like to deal with those people, fair enough, I don't

True - Ebay is full of sharks - swim with care. I only believe those "it's worth a fortune" claims if I can verify this myself. Shame you can't leave negative feedback for the liar, or even get in touch with his willing muppet buyers before the auction ends to point out their mistake.

To be fair to the seller, he has gone to a lot more effort with his photos etc and has spent a bit of time on his ad. The original seller would have done much better if he'd spent more time and care himself.

Certainly not as bad as those scum who sell laptops for a few hundred quid..............except when you read the ad small print, all they are doing is selling you a list of places where you can buy cheap laptops. Proper scum.

andyp

You should get out more. :roll:

ugo.santalucia

Don't get me wrong, I don't think he's scum. He has an immaculate feedback.
But he's making far too much profit out of this sale.
I just think he shouldn't mislead the potential buyers. In all fairness, I understand a thing or two about bikes: this bike, beside the fancy paint in true Colnago style, is worthless. Components have seen better days and look worn and they're outdated, the wheels are cheap.

The frame itself, the Colnago lux, is not a particularly sought after Colnago, it's not a Master x Light or anything like that, it's a rather cheap aluminium frame, bottom of the range in the Italian Master catalogue. Also it's aluminium which is the least durable among frame materials and this frame has seen a few winters (more than the three he claims)

All in all, I think 7-800 pounds is the maximum you want to spend for this bike, but it will sell for much more, due to a misleading and false description.

I can't contact the buyers, no, that's why I've opened this topic, hoping that maybe...

andyp

Caveat emptor.

But ebay is full of people bidding themselves into a frenzy. I've seen things go for more than there recommended retail price before because people get caught up in the thrill of the auction.

It is to be expected therefore that people will attempt to make easy money.

I think you're being somewhat harsh on this guy as his description makes no mention of him having used the frame. He freely admits it was an impulse purchase. My guess is that he thought the frame might go cheaply and put in a bid knowing he could make more money by selling it on.

ugo.santalucia

Well I think there is a difference in buying a frame, buying the cheapest wheels on the market, flogging the whole package on E-bay or saying:

"It was an impulse buy as i quite simply had to have it - no matter what. Truth is I hardly ever use it and you can only look at it so many times and I panic that it will get scratched! Daft really - it's a bike for gods sake not a De Vinci painting! Offered with No RESERVE its got to go!"

To me this means that he bought this bike because it was love at first sight, but then, truth is he doesn't use it very much and rather than seeing it rotting or even worse running the risk of getting scratched, he reluctantly is forced to sell it, with tears in his eyes...

Shame is this enduring, everlasting love only lasted a month and a half... just about the time of having it delivered and fitting the wheels...

Bronzie

ugo.santalucia wrote:

But he's making far too much profit out of this sale.

This is a bizarre concept to me. How can he make "too much profit". What would you be more happy with? You sound like the Daily Mail "Tesco makes £2.8BN profit shock!" - they are a business, making as big a profit as they can is their job.

He's listed with £1 start and no reserve - he could of ended up selling for £2. Would that have been "too little profit" and you would demand a re-listing, or would you laugh at his misfortune?

This is the real world - the item is worth what someone else is prepared to pay for it and if they get carried away clicking the "Bid Now" button, whose fault is it?

The seller doesn't say at any point that he's owned it years - his wording iis legally faultless.

Kléber

He might be factual but he is sailing close to the wind, Arthur Daley would be proud of this one.

Still, you can see buy browsing the site that the seller flips plenty of kit like this.

nick hanson

Lets be realistic,the guy seems to have picked up a bit of a bargain in the first place.
With the wheels in & up for sale,whatever he gets for the bike is up to what the bidder is prepared to pay.
If you have the time & the knowledge (count me out ) then you can make good money on Ebay.As others have said,he took a chance selling with no reserve.......having said that,I'm sure he'll know the system & have a few mates placing bids to get the ball rolling.
Yes,his wording is pushing it a bit,but ultimately the buyer won't have paid more than he/she is comfortable with.
If you,like me,make your money through hard graft,then it does look a bit cheeky,but if you could have the idea & live with the knowledge of being a bit on the edge,then you'll do it.
The people I've worked for who are the most successful (read biggest houses/cars) don't work the hardest,they just spot the opportunities to get ahead,whilst the rest of us are too busy working to see the opportunities

ugo.santalucia

Well you all agree that making whatever profit is fair, even if it involves lying a bit here and there... we seem to have a slight cultural discrepancy here...

Good, I wish you the best in your life

And while you maximise the profit without any worry for those fool customers, in your spare time you can keep raising money for charity, it will make you all feel a lot better about yourselves

Ugo

Slow Downcp

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Well you all agree that making whatever profit is fair, even if it involves lying a bit here and there... we seem to have a slight cultural discrepancy here...

Good, I wish you the best in your life

And while you maximise the profit without any worry for those fool customers, in your spare time you can keep raising money for charity, it will make you all feel a lot better about yourselves

Ugo

What's your greivance/connection with the buyer/seller? Can't believe you've registered on the forum and only posted to this topic through your genuine concern for human rights :twisted:

ugo.santalucia

Believe it slowdown, believe it...

As I said, I think this is immoral and unacceptable... but everybody seem to think it's normal...

On the other hand, if I watch "the apprentice" I feel a shiver running through my spine... my fault, I suppose

Captain Turok

What is your issue Ugo?..

The guy is declaring that he is a trader.

I wish him all the very best

Tom Butcher

He says it's a 4k bike new - I don't know if that's true or not - apart from that I can't see that he is making any claims you could question - he may really have bought it to use himself and then decided not to - he makes no secret of the fact he trades in bikes after all. He bought it in an open auction - he may have got a bargain but that's life - the original seller did make a big mistake saying pick up only - it's not hard to package a bike up and post.

Captain Turok

Do you have a problem buying a pint of milk from a shop?...

ugo.santalucia

You are all very naif,

There is more to that, infact...the real crime, he tries to imply that BS6102 applies to a used bike when he can't possibly know it's history. As a registered business, he could find that any product liability insurance he may have will be invalidated by his statements in the event of a claim, for example...

Business is a serious matter, it's not just about buyng cheap and selling overpriced... this is not Neverland...

mr-ed

I don't have a problem with people bidding about what the bikes worth thats their choice but it does annoy me when people put overly exagerated prices for things. But people bidding on it must know its not true and should probably look around before bidding. I recently sold a pair of sailing boots for a friend which they were given free. I let them use my ebay account and everything they said was true and they included lots of photos too. I couldn't believe when they sold for £160 when new they just over £200 and we had no idea how old the boots were. If people pay too much for items its their own fault.

andy_wrx

There are several sites allowing you to find things on eBay which are 'potential bargains' because the seller has put them in the wrong category or mis-spelled the item in the description or something similar and hence buyers haven't seen them and the price is low.

If you buy using this sort of tactic, someone could claim - from the moral high ground - that you were taking unfair advantage of the seller, that perhaps you could point-out what was wrong with their listing, allow them to correct it and hence allow it to sell for a 'proper' price.

If you were to buy using this sort of tactic, then promptly resell the item with a better listing on eBay and make a profit, what would the moral high ground think of that ?!?!

It wouldn't worry me at all. Perfectly legitimate tactic - spot an opportunity, buy something then sell for a premium.
The original seller could have done their sale better an they'd have made the money.
The eventualy buyer could have done their purchase better, bought direct from the original seller like you did, and they'd have made the cheap buy.

It's rather different to a fence buying a stolen iPod from a drug-addict for a fiver and then selling for £50...

Harry Hill

The whole game of "buying at one price and selling at a profit" is fraught with moral dillema.

Should big business be allowed to exploit suppliers? How often do you hear on the news that, for example, dairy farmers (the poor buggers who get up in the dark etc etc) are being paid 4p a liter for their milk - and yet the supermarkets are selling for many times that? Is it fair for any company to make many billions of pounds profit? Was it fair for people who bought cheap council houses to sell them at a profit? Or people who were given free shares when the bulding societies they had savings accounts with happened to go public?

Is it fair for a surgen to say to a person "I can operate on you tomorrow for £7000, or you can go on the NHS waiting list and I'll do the same operation in 9 months for free"?

Supply and demand. And when supply is low and demand is high, is it wrong to twist the metaphorical knife?

Bronzie

Harry Hill wrote:

And when supply is low and demand is high, is it wrong to twist the metaphorical knife?

Can opener, meet my tin of worms! :P

nick hanson

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Well you all agree that making whatever profit is fair, even if it involves lying a bit here and there... we seem to have a slight cultural discrepancy here...

Good, I wish you the best in your life


Ugo

Don't think anyone said they agree with lying,but we do live in the real world where we have to provide for ourselves/families,so yes,any profit (we are not talking extortion here) is fair

OffTheBackAdam

Top man!
Buys cheap and sells for a good profit. I do it all the time with wargames figures. Bought a job lot off a chap for about £65, I think I made about £1,000 when I resold them, found some very rare little toy soldiers in those boxes!
As for the lying bit, check out your politicians (For that matter, check out any politicians) and the blatant lies about the European Union and the Constitution that they don't want us to vote on.

ugo.santalucia

So in conclusion, it is fine to tell a lot of rubbish about an item to maximise the profit, as long as it's not extorsion and we're not physically offending anyone, right?

So if you buy a second hand car and then realise that the engine is not the one supposed to be there, the number plate is not registered with DVLA and the warranty is actually not valid, you should not complain, because:

a) You weren't extorted the money
b) Nobody assaulted you

timoid.

Why is this in Race and not Soapbox?

nick hanson

ugo.santalucia wrote:

So in conclusion, it is fine to tell a lot of rubbish about an item to maximise the profit, as long as it's not extorsion and we're not physically offending anyone, right?

So if you buy a second hand car and then realise that the engine is not the one supposed to be there, the number plate is not registered with DVLA and the warranty is actually not valid, you should not complain, because:

a) You weren't extorted the money
b) Nobody assaulted you

I don't think thats a fair comparison.At the end of the day,a guy (we presume) buys a bike minus wheels for a song.He fits some wheels & posts it on Ebay (no reserve) & he drops on someone prepared to pay top price.
The fact that he spins a load of cobblers in the sales description (& note,not about the bike,just he infers he has had the bike a while) shouldn't have any bearing on the sale.
I'm sure the buyer will be very happy with their purchase,so,no worries.
Best crack open a bottle or two with a good meal & CALM DOWN :shock:

synchronicity

Off-topic:
My best ever ebay sale was a collection of ~50 different energy drink cans (empty!) and listed as such. Sold for something like US$470 to a guy in Austria who owned an energy drink company...

nick hanson

synchronicity wrote:

Off-topic:
My best ever ebay sale was a collection of ~50 different energy drink cans (empty!) and listed as such. Sold for something like US$470 to a guy in Austria who owned an energy drink company...

Nice one.Just goes to show,one man's rubbish is another man's treasure.
Best keep quiet about it,you might get accused of misleading someone :roll: