Does this count as RLJing ?

MilitantGraham
MilitantGraham Posts: 220
edited April 2008 in Commuting chat
Approaching a set of traffic light, they turn red.
I pull over to the curb, step off and get on the pavement.
I push my bike across the road from the left.
I then push my bike back on to the road the far side of the lights and get back on.

Depending on the exact time of arrival at the red light I can sometimes do a sort of cyclocross style jump off, run across the side road in those couple of seconds while all the lights are red. jump back on and be away before the cars from the left have got a green light.

Morally, this might be considered an RLJ, but legally, as far as I know, I am able to leave and rejoin the road at any point and push my bike along the pavement and across pedestrian crossings.

I think I should point out that this all takes place in Kidderminster, not central London where so many of you seem to ride. Usually there is not a pedestrian in sight so running along the pavement and across a pedestrian crossing while the cars have got a red light presents no risk to anyone other than myself.
I am a mountain biking god.
Unfortunately, my bike's an atheist.

Comments

  • BentMikey
    BentMikey Posts: 4,895
    Nope, it's not RLJing, morally or legally in my opinion. Might still annoy motorists though.
  • andrewc3142
    andrewc3142 Posts: 906
    If the road is clear to walk the bike across, why not just ride through? It's a bike, not a car (having lit fuse, stand back for explosion of moral outrage).
  • I can sometimes do this at a local set of lights, where there is also a pelican crossing, and if I read it right, can do what you describe as "Cyclocross style" (I'm on a cyclocross bike too, so how cool is that?) jump off bike run across road (with bike of course), and rejoin, and Yes it does p!ss car driver off :P
    No it's not RLJing IMO, wonder what the local bobby might think?
    If you see the candle as flame, the meal is already cooked.
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  • Adamskii
    Adamskii Posts: 267
    Quite frankly who cares if it pisses off motorists, sod em. It's not illegal. I sometimes do the same. Once you get off your bike you become a pedestrian and therefore have no restrictions as to when you can cross the road.
    It's all good.
  • DavidTQ
    DavidTQ Posts: 943
    Approaching a set of traffic light, they turn red.
    I pull over to the curb, step off and get on the pavement.
    I push my bike across the road from the left.
    I then push my bike back on to the road the far side of the lights and get back on.

    Depending on the exact time of arrival at the red light I can sometimes do a sort of cyclocross style jump off, run across the side road in those couple of seconds while all the lights are red. jump back on and be away before the cars from the left have got a green light.

    Morally, this might be considered an RLJ, but legally, as far as I know, I am able to leave and rejoin the road at any point and push my bike along the pavement and across pedestrian crossings.

    I think I should point out that this all takes place in Kidderminster, not central London where so many of you seem to ride. Usually there is not a pedestrian in sight so running along the pavement and across a pedestrian crossing while the cars have got a red light presents no risk to anyone other than myself.

    As soon as you get off the bike you're a pedestrian, nothing morally or legally wrong about this as far as I can see. Every day I make use of my "insta pedestrian mode" to take a short cut that cars cant cutting a good chunk off my journey. Any car drivers pissed of arent annoyed because youve done something wrong but because they cant do the same :D
  • This is where such things make cyclists look like pious pillocks. There's no one around, you're endangering no one, yet it makes sense to get off road, get on pavement, push, get off pavement, get on road, all for the sake of six yards? Barmy. Really, absolutely barmy.

    Perhaps it's just so that you feel more able to sneer and tut at people who don't bother. In which case it's worse than barmy.

    Seems to me that adhering to the law is more important to you than being sensible. Get over yourself mun.
  • attica
    attica Posts: 2,362
    Oddly enough I was thinking of starting a thread with the same name as I rode in this morning.

    My scenario is this, I reach a cross roads that has lights and takes ages to cycle through three phases, traffic my way, traffic across my route, then all pedestrians allowed to cross.

    Just beyond the pedestrian crossing part is a barrier, designed to stop people crossing the road diagonally, it also makes a very handy leaning post so that I don't have to unclip. (I'm wearing Look cleats so cyclocross style isn't an option.

    If there are no pedestrians around, I'll filter to the front, and wait on this leaning post having not entered the junction, yet I am a good 6 foot in front of the advance stop line (let's face it the cycling box is usually occupied by a car anyway). I consider this a safe place to be, I only set off once the lights change.

    Am I RLJing or not?
    "Impressive break"

    "Thanks...

    ...I can taste blood"
  • The only rule in the HC is
    Do not ride across a pelican, puffin or zebra crossing. Dismount and wheel your cycle across.
  • el_presidente
    el_presidente Posts: 1,963
    Attica wrote:
    Oddly enough I was thinking of starting a thread with the same name as I rode in this morning.

    My scenario is this, I reach a cross roads that has lights and takes ages to cycle through three phases, traffic my way, traffic across my route, then all pedestrians allowed to cross.

    Just beyond the pedestrian crossing part is a barrier, designed to stop people crossing the road diagonally, it also makes a very handy leaning post so that I don't have to unclip. (I'm wearing Look cleats so cyclocross style isn't an option.

    If there are no pedestrians around, I'll filter to the front, and wait on this leaning post having not entered the junction, yet I am a good 6 foot in front of the advance stop line (let's face it the cycling box is usually occupied by a car anyway). I consider this a safe place to be, I only set off once the lights change.

    Am I RLJing or not?

    I do this all the time. Legally yes an RLJ but not morally IMHO and not anything that would annoy the vast majority of drivers I think

    the only thing to watch is where you go to far and can't see the light :oops:
    <a>road</a>
  • graeme_s-2
    graeme_s-2 Posts: 3,382
    Attica wrote:
    If there are no pedestrians around, I'll filter to the front, and wait on this leaning post having not entered the junction, yet I am a good 6 foot in front of the advance stop line (let's face it the cycling box is usually occupied by a car anyway). I consider this a safe place to be, I only set off once the lights change.

    Am I RLJing or not?
    You've crossed the stop line, so technically yes you are.

    There was an article about this in The Guardian the other week:

    http://lifeandhealth.guardian.co.uk/gui ... 57,00.html
  • attica
    attica Posts: 2,362
    "It will no doubt take a spate of accidents for anything to be done to sort this particular junction out. Until then, cyclists just have to make their own risk assessment and face the consequences."

    Sums up the Status Quo rather well methinks.
    "Impressive break"

    "Thanks...

    ...I can taste blood"
  • Adamskii
    Adamskii Posts: 267
    Referring to the Guardian article. Nine times out of ten I'll wait at lights beyond the Stop line because it's were I feel the safest and it gives me time to clip in and get up to speed ahead of the traffic.

    I wasn't aware that this is illegal but it's not going to stop doing it. A decent police officer should read the situation and be satisfied that you have stopped out of the way and in a safe place. conman sense please!
    It's all good.
  • BentMikey
    BentMikey Posts: 4,895
    9.9 times out of 10 you'd be safer waiting behind the first or second car in the queue, in primary position. This lets you proceed across the junction in the centre of the lane where you should be anyway, and the car ahead of you takes away the pressure/impatience need of the driver behind to overtake. Safe, easy, and relatively stress free, as well as being recommended by Cyclecraft and National Standards training.
  • squired
    squired Posts: 1,153
    Waiting behind the first or second car in the queue is fine, but then you are stuck breathing in fumes as they are pumped out of the car in front of you (or even worse, bus).

    Personally I also do the jumping off the bike and walking/running across the junction thing. I've been doing it for years now. It proved especially useful at the Bank junction in London when I used to work over that way. Does it wind up drivers? I have no idea. If cyclists started doing it en masse I'd be interested to see what was said about it.
  • secretsam
    secretsam Posts: 5,117
    Approaching a set of traffic light, they turn red.
    I pull over to the curb, step off and get on the pavement.
    I push my bike across the road from the left.
    I then push my bike back on to the road the far side of the lights and get back on.

    Depending on the exact time of arrival at the red light I can sometimes do a sort of cyclocross style jump off, run across the side road in those couple of seconds while all the lights are red. jump back on and be away before the cars from the left have got a green light.

    Morally, this might be considered an RLJ, but legally, as far as I know, I am able to leave and rejoin the road at any point and push my bike along the pavement and across pedestrian crossings.

    I think I should point out that this all takes place in Kidderminster, not central London where so many of you seem to ride. Usually there is not a pedestrian in sight so running along the pavement and across a pedestrian crossing while the cars have got a red light presents no risk to anyone other than myself.

    I do somthing like this - if I'm turning left at a crossroads, I hop off, walk over the kerb to the other road and hop back on (mindful of traffic). But my Dad used to do this, think a copper once told him off for it?!?!?

    I can understand cars getting upset about your technique but don't think it's illegal...

    It's just a hill. Get over it.
  • Adamskii
    Adamskii Posts: 267
    Bentmikey - I agree with you on waiting behind the first or second car if you are moving along in traffic. However if the traffic is stationary and there is a huge que already waiting at the lights I tend to filter to the front.
    It's all good.
  • BentMikey
    BentMikey Posts: 4,895
    Adamskii wrote:
    Bentmikey - I agree with you on waiting behind the first or second car if you are moving along in traffic. However if the traffic is stationary and there is a huge que already waiting at the lights I tend to filter to the front.

    Absolutely, I'd do the same. I will normally pull in behind the first or second car though, even if I've filtered to get there. If the queue extends on the other side of the junction then I'll go right to the front.
  • helz
    helz Posts: 406
    There's a junction where I have to turn left and when the light's red I usually hop off my bike and walk round the corner. It's definitely not RLJing because at the point when I do this I'm a pedestrian and not a vehicle.
    *´¨)
    `.·´ .·*´¨) ¸.·*¨)
    (¸.·´ (¸.·´
    Power to the pedal
  • squired wrote:
    Waiting behind the first or second car in the queue is fine, but then you are stuck breathing in fumes as they are pumped out of the car in front of you (or even worse, bus).

    Personally I also do the jumping off the bike and walking/running across the junction thing. I've been doing it for years now. It proved especially useful at the Bank junction in London when I used to work over that way. Does it wind up drivers? I have no idea. If cyclists started doing it en masse I'd be interested to see what was said about it.
    There's lots of this at a big junction near where I work in Barbican. Not because it's safe, or sensible, but because the police are often there catching RLJers. The result is a complete free for all at the lights. Some people push on the pavement, others straight across the road, others diagonally across the junction. Some push properly, others stand on one pedal and sort of glide, others actually carry the bike over fences between walkers and motorists. The long and the short is more nervous pedestrians and increased danger for all road users. Crazy.
  • squired wrote:
    Waiting behind the first or second car in the queue is fine, but then you are stuck breathing in fumes as they are pumped out of the car in front of you (or even worse, bus).

    Personally I also do the jumping off the bike and walking/running across the junction thing. I've been doing it for years now. It proved especially useful at the Bank junction in London when I used to work over that way. Does it wind up drivers? I have no idea. If cyclists started doing it en masse I'd be interested to see what was said about it.
    There's lots of this at a big junction near where I work in Barbican. Not because it's safe, or sensible, but because the police are often there catching RLJers. The result is a complete free for all at the lights. Some people push on the pavement, others straight across the road, others diagonally across the junction. Some push properly, others stand on one pedal and sort of glide, others actually carry the bike over fences between walkers and motorists. The long and the short is more nervous pedestrians and increased danger for all road users. Crazy.
  • Approaching a set of traffic light, they turn red.
    I pull over to the curb, step off and get on the pavement.
    I push my bike across the road from the left.
    I then push my bike back on to the road the far side of the lights and get back on.

    Depending on the exact time of arrival at the red light I can sometimes do a sort of cyclocross style jump off, run across the side road in those couple of seconds while all the lights are red. jump back on and be away before the cars from the left have got a green light.

    Morally, this might be considered an RLJ, but legally, as far as I know, I am able to leave and rejoin the road at any point and push my bike along the pavement and across pedestrian crossings.

    I think I should point out that this all takes place in Kidderminster, not central London where so many of you seem to ride. Usually there is not a pedestrian in sight so running along the pavement and across a pedestrian crossing while the cars have got a red light presents no risk to anyone other than myself.

    I admire your dedication to getting there!
  • graeme_s-2
    graeme_s-2 Posts: 3,382
    BentMikey wrote:
    Adamskii wrote:
    Bentmikey - I agree with you on waiting behind the first or second car if you are moving along in traffic. However if the traffic is stationary and there is a huge que already waiting at the lights I tend to filter to the front.

    Absolutely, I'd do the same. I will normally pull in behind the first or second car though, even if I've filtered to get there. If the queue extends on the other side of the junction then I'll go right to the front.
    This is my preferred technique. On my commute, I know how far up the queue I need to be to make it through a junction next time the lights change. If I know I'll make it from the back of the queue, then I'll just sit there in primary. If I know I won't, then I'll filter down until I'm in the zone to make it through at the next green light, and nip into a suitable gap where I can take the primary position.
  • el_presidente
    el_presidente Posts: 1,963
    squired wrote:
    Waiting behind the first or second car in the queue is fine, but then you are stuck breathing in fumes as they are pumped out of the car in front of you (or even worse, bus).

    Personally I also do the jumping off the bike and walking/running across the junction thing. I've been doing it for years now. It proved especially useful at the Bank junction in London when I used to work over that way. Does it wind up drivers? I have no idea. If cyclists started doing it en masse I'd be interested to see what was said about it.
    There's lots of this at a big junction near where I work in Barbican. Not because it's safe, or sensible, but because the police are often there catching RLJers. The result is a complete free for all at the lights. Some people push on the pavement, others straight across the road, others diagonally across the junction. Some push properly, others stand on one pedal and sort of glide, others actually carry the bike over fences between walkers and motorists. The long and the short is more nervous pedestrians and increased danger for all road users. Crazy.


    this sounds like a great spectator sport, I might go down there & check it out
    <a>road</a>
  • mrchrispy
    mrchrispy Posts: 310
    Mikey has got it right, its had to stop yourself filtering to the front but you are safer behind a car as the guy in the box behind you hasn't got that open road infront of you telling him he must overtake as soon as possible. I'll admit I hardly ever follow this advice but I'm going to make more of an effort.
  • iainment
    iainment Posts: 992
    squired wrote:
    Waiting behind the first or second car in the queue is fine, but then you are stuck breathing in fumes as they are pumped out of the car in front of you (or even worse, bus).

    Personally I also do the jumping off the bike and walking/running across the junction thing. I've been doing it for years now. It proved especially useful at the Bank junction in London when I used to work over that way. Does it wind up drivers? I have no idea. If cyclists started doing it en masse I'd be interested to see what was said about it.
    There's lots of this at a big junction near where I work in Barbican. Not because it's safe, or sensible, but because the police are often there catching RLJers. The result is a complete free for all at the lights. Some people push on the pavement, others straight across the road, others diagonally across the junction. Some push properly, others stand on one pedal and sort of glide, others actually carry the bike over fences between walkers and motorists. The long and the short is more nervous pedestrians and increased danger for all road users. Crazy.

    They do this in the Greenwich foot tunnel so that they are not cycling. Seems stupid to me as you have less control over the bike standing on one pedal but hey ho.
    Old hippies don't die, they just lie low until the laughter stops and their time comes round again.
    Joseph Gallivan
  • [

    They do this in the Greenwich foot tunnel so that they are not cycling. Seems stupid to me as you have less control over the bike standing on one pedal but hey ho.[/quote]

    Yeah its a weird one that no cycling in the tunnel because as you say you have alot less control standing on one pedal and you can pick up a fair speed in there due to the slope. The liftmen will refuse you the lift if you cycle but its ok if your'e coasting down standing on one pedal :? :roll: - I used to do it but now it feels like taking the p!ss.
    You'd think the powers that be (Greenwich Council) would have sorted this 'loophole' out by now would'nt you?

    sw
  • richardast
    richardast Posts: 273
    Referring to the original post, I can't see how it would be illegal and morality doesn't really come into it, but it is definitely a demonstration of the same sort of impatience that many of us slate car/lorry/bus drivers for on these forums.
  • Good technique Graeme_S - anyone who knows their route should be able to do the same - I find it helps keep everyone's speed up including motorists, with side effect that, not being exposed at the front of the queue, you don't find that bl**dy scaffolding wagon trying to pass you again for the second time in 200 metres. Admiitedly every junction is different.
    BTW - original poster is legal 8) Attica is not :wink:
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